Va. lawmakers apologize for slavery

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You miss the point, but that's no surprise.

[Alex+R 0]

The legal institutions of Virginia were around then, as has already been pointed out. Since the State of Virginia had not yet apologized, it seems about time. Since people today are still feeling the effects of slavery, those people deserve an apology.

Even if you feel that slavery has nothing to do with the current state of the U.S. (which would be a bit naive, but ok) you have to feel some personal connection to your ancestors. I feel like an apology to the Jews was in order for the Holocaust, and the German government that issued that is, unlike Virginia, not even the same institution that allowed the atrocity to occur.

[Fandango 1,439]

The legal institutions of Virginia were around then, as has already been pointed out. Since the State of Virginia had not yet apologized, it seems about time. Since people today are still feeling the effects of slavery, those people deserve an apology.

Even if you feel that slavery has nothing to do with the current state of the U.S. (which would be a bit naive, but ok) you have to feel some personal connection to your ancestors. I feel like an apology to the Jews was in order for the Holocaust, and the German government that issued that is, unlike Virginia, not even the same institution that allowed the atrocity to occur.

It's too late for an apology. Which makes it an empty-gesture-feel-good-cos-we-did-something-profound-and-alleviated-our-white-man-guilt-yet-it-actually-means-nothing effort.

And I never said directly that slavery has nothing to do with the current state of the US. Where you got that from is anyone's guess. I'll have to go back through my posts and see if I was unclear anywhere, and if so, will amend that immediately.

Hi GEG! Still here I see, responding to me....thought it was a 'waste of time'? Thanks for apparently having a change of heart! Now you can actually partake in the discussion, or you can continue doing the whole 'I'm not talking about this with you cos it's a waste of my time, but I'm going to continually post anyways with lil one-liners to you of how you won't ever get it cos I'm a social scientist and you're not. Neener neener boo boo' ...eh, your choice

[Sofiyya 1,687]

And I never said directly that slavery has nothing to do with the current state of the US. Where you got that from is anyone's guess. I'll have to go back through my posts and see if I was unclear anywhere, and if so, will amend that immediately.

You said so much when you dismissed my examples of carryover from slavery as not relevant to slavery. This is when I knew you didn't get it. BTW, don't be surprised that I'm stil here. I never said I had to leave the thread. I said I wasn't going to debate with you. I can engage in the discussion at any point.

Edited February 26, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Fandango 1,439]

And I never said directly that slavery has nothing to do with the current state of the US. Where you got that from is anyone's guess. I'll have to go back through my posts and see if I was unclear anywhere, and if so, will amend that immediately.

You said so much when you dismissed my examples of carryover from slavery as not relevant to slavery. This is when I knoew you didn't get it. BTW, don't be surprised that I'm stil here. I never said I had to leave the thread. I said I wasn't going to debate with you. I can engage in the discussion at any point.

Yet you're still addressing me. I can't see how it's logical to keep responding to me when in every response you say responding to me is a waste of time.

I didn't say they were irrelevant. I said they weren't the same thing.

Edited February 26, 2007 by LisaD

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I said debating with you would be a waste of time, not that responding to you would be a waste of time.

Essentially, your position is, "it's not my problem". That is not a debatable position, so, nothing to debate about.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Lisa, remember what we talked about ?

[Fandango 1,439]

I said debating with you would be a waste of time, not that responding to you would be a waste of time.

Essentially, your position is, "it's not my problem". That is not a debatable position, so, nothing to debate about.

No, what I said was that my position is, 'it's not for me to apologise for'

So responding with posturing & smack talk like 'you just won't get it' isn't a waste of time, but sharing conflicting views on a topic is? Ok then

Lisa, remember what we talked about ?

lol, yep

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You don't see your position as "It's not my problem" and I don't see my position as "smack talk and posturing". How can one debate with someone who simply sees herself as detached from the matter being discussed? You merely repeat that position and there is nothing for anyone to really debate with since debate is an exchange of ideas. "I have nothing to apologize for" is not an idea that appeals to debate.

Edited February 26, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Dup

Edited February 26, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Fandango 1,439]

You don't see your position as "It's not my problem" and I don't see my position as "smack talk and posturing". How can one debate with someone who simply sees herself as detached from the matter being discussed? You merely repeat that position and there is nothing for anyone to really debate with since debate is an exchange of ideas. "I have nothing to apologize for" is not an idea that appeals to debate.

As far as my ideas...well I've exchanged them ad nauseum. 'I have nothing to apologise for' is just what it says...I've explained the whys and wherefores of why I think this move was a ####### one...I've even given you personal insight as to where this idea stemmed from. Why being firm on a belief is considered 'defensive' and 'oh you just won't get it' is ridiculous, presumptuous, and condescending.

But eh, at the very least, it's entertaining.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Yea! I'm seriously amused. I'm also amazed by your analysis of my delivery. If you weren't being defensive, there would be no way you would see my remarks as condescending, ridiculous, or presumptuous. You simply wouldn't care. Edited February 26, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Fandango 1,439]

Yea! I'm seriously amused. I'm also amazed by your analysis of my delivery. If you weren't being defensive, there would be no way you woud see my remarks as condescending, ridiculous, pr presumptuous. You simply wouldn't care.

I can recognize behavior without having an emotional attachment to it. And I can be pedantic and verbose about it as well without taking offense and getting defensive. Nowhere did I say I care...in fact, I recall me saying that you are free to have whatever opinion you wish. Which is certainly not defensive

But my opinion of you as being the things I mentioned above is not based purely on this thread alone

In any case, it is now almost time to wake up D (8 more minutes)...and I'm so tired and actually getting that tunnel vision thing goin on when ya look at the screen...so unless there's some earthshattering thing i need to say, we'll have to finish this tomorrow

[Fandango 1,439]

couldnt wait anymore...just called now...and he's already up! yay! He's been so tired lately and work is v stressful for him right now, so I wanted to ensure he wouldn't oversleep. Lol, so it was a wasted effort anyways. But at least I'm sure my boo is up

I am off to crash...my eyes feel like they're going cross tonite, hahahaha.

But thanks everyone for passin the time with me in here tonite...it's been interesting!

Edited February 26, 2007 by LisaD

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Emotion is not lost in your posts, and your style across threads leaves something to be desired, as well. You've spent alot of energy defending your position against white-guilt, somethng you clearly have an investment in.

I am curious about this statement: It's too late for an apology. Which makes it an empty-gesture-feel-good-cos-we-did-something-profound-and-alleviated-our-white-man-guilt-yet-it-actually-means-nothing effort.

Do you see Virginia as a "White" state, so as to justify your position that offering an apology is a manifestation of "white guilt"? It could only be so if you see Virginia as white, thus capable of exuding "white guilt".