Va. lawmakers apologize for slavery

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Lisa - that the government 'should' apologize doesn't make me (or you) guilty of enslaving others - they're apologising for State actions, not yours - or those of the present generation.

Do you really want to start this circle with me again?

Only if you want to disprove that the broad responsibilities of a legal entity (the State of Virginia) are different to those of the individual

Edited February 28, 2007 by erekose

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As I see it State of Virginia, as an entity is responsible for slavery. More specifically - a government exists as it's own entity separate to that of the individual. Therefore, the moral resonsibilities of a state are also different than those of an individual.

....

That said - the obvious point here is that there is a difference between mere apology and true repentance (Tony Blair is a good example of 'the meaningless apologiser'). So an apology should not be the end of the conversation, but rather the start.

You are of Bristish descent right..

How about you send off a payout for all of the Greek Marbles and artifacts stolen from Greece, while the Greeks where slaves during the Ottoman Era..

I think I answered that question on the other page - Britain has helped former colonial nations, such as India. The debate as I said, is whether Britain has helped former colonies enough, not whether it should help at all

As for the Elgin Marbles (and other looted treasures), yes they should be returned.

[mybackpages 0]

The good side of slavery? Please, go on!

I thought someone would throw that out. Not everyone who was a slave was treated poorly by their owner. Was it wrong to have slaves yes. Did people know any better back then, of course not...

Yet much like working in any business, there are great bosses and their are extremely bad bosses..

Of course they knew better. The founders of this country (many of them slave owners themselves) knew slavery was wrong, knew it was hypocritical to the values this nation was founded upon. Many debates at the Second Continental Cognress and the Constitutional conventions show this. The thing is they knew it was wrong but did not want to risk their own interests to do what they all knew was right.

They must have know as well as the Sultans in Morocco did in the past.

Then again lets compare it to moder-day human trafficking.. aka slavery

Morocco is a source, transit, and destination country for girls, women, and men trafficked from sub-Saharan Africa and Asia. Internal trafficking involves young girls from rural areas recruited to work as child maids in major cities. Morocco is also a source country for men, women, and children trafficked to Italy, Spain, and other parts of Europe for forced labor and sexual exploitation. Moroccan women are similarly trafficked to Saudi Arabia, Syria, and the UAE for the purpose of sexual exploitation. Men and women from Nigeria, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Pakistan are increasingly trafficked through Morocco to Europe or Middle Eastern countries for forced labor. In 2005, the Government of Morocco, international organizations, and numerous NGOs claimed that the number of Moroccans trafficked into Spain, Italy, and elsewhere in Europe has increased significantly. - U.S. State Dept Trafficking in Persons Report, June, 2006

What kind of reaction are you going for with this? Oh my God, my husband is from a country that does bad things!!! What was I thinking? Or perhaps, oh I guess I can't condemn slavery since I married someone from a country that, like so many others, deals in human trafficking.

What's your deal???

Morocco was not part of the discussion. You just glance at a profile, and whip that out in order to defame character or what?

never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

[Heracles 417]

What kind of reaction are you going for with this? Oh my God, my husband is from a country that does bad things!!! What was I thinking? Or perhaps, oh I guess I can't condemn slavery since I married someone from a country that, like so many others, deals in human trafficking.

What's your deal???

Morocco was not part of the discussion. You just glance at a profile, and whip that out in order to defame character or what?

Give me a break... defame character.. It's like a KKK member discussing equality and you saying, 'well their membership is irrelevant to the discussion'. It is relevant...

The OP is about lawmakers apologizing for slavery. I quoted a link about human trafficking, a form of slavery, in Morocco which exists to this 'present day'. Just because someone's partner is from x country does not mean I should have to tippy toe around issues so I can be politically correct.

[Jenn! 918]

What kind of reaction are you going for with this? Oh my God, my husband is from a country that does bad things!!! What was I thinking? Or perhaps, oh I guess I can't condemn slavery since I married someone from a country that, like so many others, deals in human trafficking.

What's your deal???

Morocco was not part of the discussion. You just glance at a profile, and whip that out in order to defame character or what?

Give me a break... defame character.. It's like a KKK member discussing equality and you saying, 'well their membership is irrelevant to the discussion'. It is relevant...

The OP is about lawmakers apologizing for slavery. I quoted a link about human trafficking, a form of slavery, in Morocco which exists to this 'present day'. Just because someone's partner is from x country does not mean I should have to tippy toe around issues so I can be politically correct.

So it was just coincidental that you used Morocco as an example as opposed to any other country? Yeah, right.

Give *me* a break.

Oh, and great analogy about the KKK. I didn't realize that marrying someone from a certain country means that you agree with all of that country's behaviors.

Edited February 28, 2007 by jenn3539

[Alex+R 0]

What kind of reaction are you going for with this? Oh my God, my husband is from a country that does bad things!!! What was I thinking? Or perhaps, oh I guess I can't condemn slavery since I married someone from a country that, like so many others, deals in human trafficking.

What's your deal???

Morocco was not part of the discussion. You just glance at a profile, and whip that out in order to defame character or what?

Give me a break... defame character.. It's like a KKK member discussing equality and you saying, 'well their membership is irrelevant to the discussion'. It is relevant...

The OP is about lawmakers apologizing for slavery. I quoted a link about human trafficking, a form of slavery, in Morocco which exists to this 'present day'. Just because someone's partner is from x country does not mean I should have to tippy toe around issues so I can be politically correct.

So it was just coincidental that you used Morocco as an example as opposed to any other country? Yeah, right.

Give *me* a break.

Oh, and great analogy about the KKK. I didn't realize that marrying someone from a certain country means that you agree with all of that country's behaviors.

No eye-roll icon is big enough for his kind of "logic" Jenn

[Sofiyya 1,687]

When Morocco apologizes for slavery, Infidel, Jenn or I will let you know. For now, the topic is Virginia. Besides, like you said, some slaves have it good! Be happy for them

[Heracles 417]

Give me a break... defame character.. It's like a KKK member discussing equality and you saying, 'well their membership is irrelevant to the discussion'. It is relevant...

The OP is about lawmakers apologizing for slavery. I quoted a link about human trafficking, a form of slavery, in Morocco which exists to this 'present day'. Just because someone's partner is from x country does not mean I should have to tippy toe around issues so I can be politically correct.

So it was just coincidental that you used Morocco as an example as opposed to any other country? Yeah, right.

Give *me* a break.

Oh, and great analogy about the KKK. I didn't realize that marrying someone from a certain country means that you agree with all of that country's behaviors.

This is a forum and all we have to go by is the information people provide. Therefore, if someone from Darfur was to accuse Australia of human rights violations, that would be a bit hypocritical.. As such I could provide information about Darfur.

Nonetheless, why can I not use Morocco as an example? because x people's partners are from there...

Edited February 28, 2007 by Infidel

[Jenn! 918]

Give me a break... defame character.. It's like a KKK member discussing equality and you saying, 'well their membership is irrelevant to the discussion'. It is relevant...

The OP is about lawmakers apologizing for slavery. I quoted a link about human trafficking, a form of slavery, in Morocco which exists to this 'present day'. Just because someone's partner is from x country does not mean I should have to tippy toe around issues so I can be politically correct.

So it was just coincidental that you used Morocco as an example as opposed to any other country? Yeah, right.

Give *me* a break.

Oh, and great analogy about the KKK. I didn't realize that marrying someone from a certain country means that you agree with all of that country's behaviors.

This is a forum and all we have to go by is the information people provide. Therefore, if someone from Darfur was to accuse Australia of human rights violations, that would be a bit hypocritical.. As such I could provide information about Darfur.

Nonetheless, why can I not use Morocco as an example? because x people's partners are from there...

Sorry, you're just being absolutely ridiculous now.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Please start a new thread about Morocco, Australia and Darfur. This one is about Virginia.

[Heracles 417]

No eye-roll icon is big enough for his kind of "logic" Jenn

Let the great minds of the north unite hey..

Sorry, you're just being absolutely ridiculous now.

Is that best response you guys have to the human trafficking, aka slavery, in Morocco..

[Heracles 417]

The good side of slavery? Please, go on!

I thought someone would throw that out. Not everyone who was a slave was treated poorly by their owner. Was it wrong to have slaves yes. Did people know any better back then, of course not...

Yet much like working in any business, there are great bosses and there are extremely bad bosses..

Of course they knew better. The founders of this country (many of them slave owners themselves) knew slavery was wrong, knew it was hypocritical to the values this nation was founded upon. Many debates at the Second Continental Cognress and the Constitutional conventions show this. The thing is they knew it was wrong but did not want to risk their own interests to do what they all knew was right.

The example of Morocco was related to the above response where 'mybackpages' basically indicated the founders knew very well what they where doing. Therefore I replied by saying they must have known as well as the officials in Morocco do, considering human trafficking still occurs there..

Edited February 28, 2007 by Infidel

[Alex+R 0]

The good side of slavery? Please, go on!

I thought someone would throw that out. Not everyone who was a slave was treated poorly by their owner. Was it wrong to have slaves yes. Did people know any better back then, of course not...

Yet much like working in any business, there are great bosses and there are extremely bad bosses..

Of course they knew better. The founders of this country (many of them slave owners themselves) knew slavery was wrong, knew it was hypocritical to the values this nation was founded upon. Many debates at the Second Continental Cognress and the Constitutional conventions show this. The thing is they knew it was wrong but did not want to risk their own interests to do what they all knew was right.

The example of Morocco was related to the above response where 'mybackpages' basically indicated the founders knew very well what they where doing. Therefore I replied by saying they must have known as well as the officials in Morocco do, considering human trafficking still occurs there..

How is that even relevant? Explain the logical connection

[Heracles 417]

How is that even relevant? Explain the logical connection

The relevance of that was based on a response to 'mybackpages' accusing the founding fathers of basically being fully aware of how shameful slavery was. Therefore I pointed out, "does the same apply to Morocco where human trafficking still exists??" Are they aware of how shameful it is for this practice to continue? Have they apologized for the trafficking of people.

I also mentioned the sultans who had more than there fair share of slaves. Has the Moroccan government apologized for the actions of the Sultans?. Then I had jenn3539 point out that Morocco was not in the discussion. No ######!! Earlier on we discussed aborigines in Australia. Heck they where not even slaves.. I brought it up as example of a another country which had slavery and was basically asking whether that country apologized to their slaves..

Edited February 28, 2007 by Infidel

[Jenn! 918]

Nevermind, it's not even worth it. You're just backpedalling at this point.

Face it, you were trying to get her good by making her out to be a hypocrite. Sorry it backfired for you.

Edited February 28, 2007 by jenn3539