Va. lawmakers apologize for slavery

[Heracles 417]

"quite a few where treated exceptionally well"??? Gosh, so if you were forced to labour for someone for free you would consider yourself to be treated well!

As I asked above, what about white kids who worked 14 hours a day and where paid a few cents an hour. Was this any better than slavery?

“As usual the good side of the story does not make good news therefore is not spoken of.” This is an interesting comment you commented earlier on Oprah etc and how lucky they must feel not being in Africa! Have you actually been to Africa? Have you studied African history from an African perspective?

At the same time it is interesting to see no one mention that not all African-American slaves where treated badly and quite a few where treated exceptionally well. As usual the good side of the story does not make good news therefore is not spoken of.

Some might say what would I know about slavery. Well my ancestors where slaves for over 363 years under the ottoman era (Turks) and where only freed 41 years prior to African-Americans.

No I have not been to any African country. I have studied basic African history at school. Considering that Africa is said to be the foundation of human beings, traced back by DNA, I would consider my self African as well, just separated by 30,000 years..

Edited February 27, 2007 by Infidel

[peejay 327]

Maybe the whole point is that African Americans should just get over it and get on with their lives.

My ancestors were feudal serfs in Byelorussia and Russia. Hence the term "Slavs" to describe our race. The Russian serfs weren't freed by the Czar until 1867 (3 years after American slaves). My ancestors were owned by the Radzwills in Byelorussia. This fact has very little to do with my life in 2007.

I think soon we will see calls for reparations to go along with these proclamations in Virginia. This is nothing new. So...who will pay? That is the core of this.

[Alex+R 0]

Maybe the whole point is that African Americans should just get over it and get on with their lives.

My ancestors were feudal serfs in Byelorussia and Russia. Hence the term "Slavs" to describe our race. The Russian serfs weren't freed by the Czar until 1867 (3 years after American slaves). My ancestors were owned by the Radzwills in Byelorussia. This fact has very little to do with my life in 2007.

I think soon we will see calls for reparations to go along with these proclamations in Virginia. This is nothing new. So...who will pay? That is the core of this.

How do you see that as comparable?

[spiritee 0]

The difference between a white kid or anyone for that matter working 14 hours a day for a few cents and a slave is freedom!

"I would consider my self African as well, just separated by 30,000 years.." - I totally agree with this statement.

"quite a few where treated exceptionally well"??? Gosh, so if you were forced to labour for someone for free you would consider yourself to be treated well!

As I asked above, what about white kids who worked 14 hours a day and where paid a few cents an hour. Was this any better than slavery?

“As usual the good side of the story does not make good news therefore is not spoken of.” This is an interesting comment you commented earlier on Oprah etc and how lucky they must feel not being in Africa! Have you actually been to Africa? Have you studied African history from an African perspective?

At the same time it is interesting to see no one mention that not all African-American slaves where treated badly and quite a few where treated exceptionally well. As usual the good side of the story does not make good news therefore is not spoken of.

Some might say what would I know about slavery. Well my ancestors where slaves for over 363 years under the ottoman era (Turks) and where only freed 41 years prior to African-Americans.

No I have not been to any African country. I have studied basic African history at school. Considering that Africa is said to be the foundation of human beings, traced back by DNA, I would consider my self African as well, just separated by 30,000 years..

[derekkj 0]

As far as symbolic gestures go - I wonder if anyone knew that up until 2001, Virginia held a 'Lee-Jackson' day, celebrating two Confederate generals on the same day as Martin Luther King. "Insensitive and insulting" doesn't quite cut it...

Well, the Lee-Jackson state holiday had been celebrated in Virginia for almost 100 years before the MLK day even became a federal holiday. It all started back in 1889 when Virginia decided to commemorate RE Lee's birthday on January 19th. Then in 1904 Stonewall Jackson was added on to the holiday since his birthday was on January 21st. In 1978, Virginia recognized MLK's civil rights efforts and starting celebrating his holiday on January 1st. I have heard that Virginia was among the first states to even try and celebrate MLK day, but I am not sure how true that is. I do know that it was not until 1983 that President Reagan finally approved an act by Congress that set the 3rd Monday in January as the official MLK day. And it wasn't until 1986 that MLK day was officially federally observed for the first time.

Only then did the 2 holidays even start to conflict with one another. Because the 2 dates fell so closely together, Governor Robb (a Democrat) decided to combine the holidays into a Lee-Jackson-King day so that Virginia could continue to celebrate two obvious extremes of its history. In 2000 (not 2001), Governor Gilmore (a Republican) decided to separate the days once more, with Lee-Jackson day celebrated on the Friday before MLK day. And for what it's worth, it was not until 2000 that all 50 states even celebrated MLK day.

But I think the following quote pretty well sums it all up. “In spite of failures which I lament, of errors which I now see and acknowledge, or of the present aspect of affairs, do I despair the future? The truth is this: the march of Providence is so slow, our desires so impatient, the work of progress is so immense, and our means of aiding it so feeble, the life of humanity is so long, that of the individual so brief, that we often see only the ebb of the advancing wave and are thus discouraged. It is history that teaches us to hope.”-Robert E. Lee

[Fandango 1,439]

huzzah!

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

huzzah!

[peejay 327]

Maybe the whole point is that African Americans should just get over it and get on with their lives.

My ancestors were feudal serfs in Byelorussia and Russia. Hence the term "Slavs" to describe our race. The Russian serfs weren't freed by the Czar until 1867 (3 years after American slaves). My ancestors were owned by the Radzwills in Byelorussia. This fact has very little to do with my life in 2007.

I think soon we will see calls for reparations to go along with these proclamations in Virginia. This is nothing new. So...who will pay? That is the core of this.

How do you see that as comparable?

As in apples and oranges? Probably not.

Just my opinion...nothing more...nothing less.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The good side of slavery? Please, go on!

I thought someone would throw that out. Not everyone who was a slave was treated poorly by their owner. Was it wrong to have slaves yes. Did people know any better back then, of course not...

Yet much like working in any business, there are great bosses and their are extremely bad bosses..

Humanitarian slavery. That's a new one.

[mybackpages 0]

The good side of slavery? Please, go on!

I thought someone would throw that out. Not everyone who was a slave was treated poorly by their owner. Was it wrong to have slaves yes. Did people know any better back then, of course not...

Yet much like working in any business, there are great bosses and their are extremely bad bosses..

Of course they knew better. The founders of this country (many of them slave owners themselves) knew slavery was wrong, knew it was hypocritical to the values this nation was founded upon. Many debates at the Second Continental Cognress and the Constitutional conventions show this. The thing is they knew it was wrong but did not want to risk their own interests to do what they all knew was right.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As I see it State of Virginia, as an entity is responsible for slavery. More specifically - a government exists as it's own entity separate to that of the individual. Therefore, the moral resonsibilities of a state are also different than those of an individual.

Lisa - that the government 'should' apologize doesn't make me (or you) guilty of enslaving others - they're apologising for State actions, not yours - or those of the present generation.

As a State which now represents a fairly diverse range of people it's at least 'right' to recognise the mistakes of the past. That recognition is a way of recognising wrong doing and accepting the obligation to prevent similar evils in future... "Not in our name" and all that. Recognition is the least one can expect. It doesn't change history, but it is essential for a serious dialog.

That said - the obvious point here is that there is a difference between mere apology and true repentance (Tony Blair is a good example of 'the meaningless apologiser'). So an apology should not be the end of the conversation, but rather the start.

[Fandango 1,439]

Lisa - that the government 'should' apologize doesn't make me (or you) guilty of enslaving others - they're apologising for State actions, not yours - or those of the present generation.

Do you really want to start this circle with me again?

[Heracles 417]

The good side of slavery? Please, go on!

I thought someone would throw that out. Not everyone who was a slave was treated poorly by their owner. Was it wrong to have slaves yes. Did people know any better back then, of course not...

Yet much like working in any business, there are great bosses and their are extremely bad bosses..

Of course they knew better. The founders of this country (many of them slave owners themselves) knew slavery was wrong, knew it was hypocritical to the values this nation was founded upon. Many debates at the Second Continental Cognress and the Constitutional conventions show this. The thing is they knew it was wrong but did not want to risk their own interests to do what they all knew was right.

They must have know as well as the Sultans in Morocco did in the past.

Then again lets compare it to moder-day human trafficking.. aka slavery

Morocco is a source, transit, and destination country for girls, women, and men trafficked from sub-Saharan Africa and Asia. Internal trafficking involves young girls from rural areas recruited to work as child maids in major cities. Morocco is also a source country for men, women, and children trafficked to Italy, Spain, and other parts of Europe for forced labor and sexual exploitation. Moroccan women are similarly trafficked to Saudi Arabia, Syria, and the UAE for the purpose of sexual exploitation. Men and women from Nigeria, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Pakistan are increasingly trafficked through Morocco to Europe or Middle Eastern countries for forced labor. In 2005, the Government of Morocco, international organizations, and numerous NGOs claimed that the number of Moroccans trafficked into Spain, Italy, and elsewhere in Europe has increased significantly. - U.S. State Dept Trafficking in Persons Report, June, 2006

Edited February 28, 2007 by Infidel

[Heracles 417]

As I see it State of Virginia, as an entity is responsible for slavery. More specifically - a government exists as it's own entity separate to that of the individual. Therefore, the moral resonsibilities of a state are also different than those of an individual.

....

That said - the obvious point here is that there is a difference between mere apology and true repentance (Tony Blair is a good example of 'the meaningless apologiser'). So an apology should not be the end of the conversation, but rather the start.

You are of Bristish descent right..

How about you send off a payout for all of the Greek Marbles and artifacts stolen from Greece, while the Greeks where slaves during the Ottoman Era..

Edited February 28, 2007 by Infidel

[Jenn! 918]

The good side of slavery? Please, go on!

I thought someone would throw that out. Not everyone who was a slave was treated poorly by their owner. Was it wrong to have slaves yes. Did people know any better back then, of course not...

Yet much like working in any business, there are great bosses and their are extremely bad bosses..

Of course they knew better. The founders of this country (many of them slave owners themselves) knew slavery was wrong, knew it was hypocritical to the values this nation was founded upon. Many debates at the Second Continental Cognress and the Constitutional conventions show this. The thing is they knew it was wrong but did not want to risk their own interests to do what they all knew was right.

They must have know as well as the Sultans in Morocco did in the past.

Then again lets compare it to moder-day human trafficking.. aka slavery

Morocco is a source, transit, and destination country for girls, women, and men trafficked from sub-Saharan Africa and Asia. Internal trafficking involves young girls from rural areas recruited to work as child maids in major cities. Morocco is also a source country for men, women, and children trafficked to Italy, Spain, and other parts of Europe for forced labor and sexual exploitation. Moroccan women are similarly trafficked to Saudi Arabia, Syria, and the UAE for the purpose of sexual exploitation. Men and women from Nigeria, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Pakistan are increasingly trafficked through Morocco to Europe or Middle Eastern countries for forced labor. In 2005, the Government of Morocco, international organizations, and numerous NGOs claimed that the number of Moroccans trafficked into Spain, Italy, and elsewhere in Europe has increased significantly. - U.S. State Dept Trafficking in Persons Report, June, 2006

What kind of reaction are you going for with this? Oh my God, my husband is from a country that does bad things!!! What was I thinking? Or perhaps, oh I guess I can't condemn slavery since I married someone from a country that, like so many others, deals in human trafficking.

What's your deal???

Morocco was not part of the discussion. You just glance at a profile, and whip that out in order to defame character or what?