Va. lawmakers apologize for slavery

[Fandango 1,439]

Emotion is not lost in your posts, and your style across threads leaves something to be desired, as well. You've spent alot of energy defending your position against white-guilt, somethng you clearly have an investment in.

I am curious about this statement:It's too late for an apology. Which makes it an empty-gesture-feel-good-cos-we-did-something-profound-and-alleviated-our-white-man-guilt-yet-it-actually-means-nothing effort.

Do you see Virginia as a "White" state, so as to justify your position that offering an apology is a manifestation of "white guilt"? It could only be so if you see Virginia as white, thus capable of exuding "white guilt".

just finished a post in another thread, and I couldn't resist comin back

....and you say you're not talkin smack or posturing lol....lookit you

until tomorrow! *smooches*

Edited February 26, 2007 by LisaD

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Just asking. No posturing or smack involved. If your position is that the apology is a result of white guilt, who's white?

[Niels Bohr 72]

It's too late for an apology.

And, who are you to decide?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

One thing I was wondering (going back to that Australian example) was at what point such apologies supposedly become meaningless.

Do you actually have to wield the whip to assume some (or any) responsibility for things done in your name?

[pedroh 21]

It's too late for an apology.

And, who are you to decide?

the unjustified 'white guilt' is never wronggg man! don't you know that..

[Fandango 1,439]

Just asking. No posturing or smack involved. If your position is that the apology is a result of white guilt, who's white?

they are

It's too late for an apology.

And, who are you to decide?

Who am I to decide my own opinion? Erm, the only one qualified who can...go figure.

One thing I was wondering (going back to that Australian example) was at what point such apologies supposedly become meaningless.

Do you actually have to wield the whip to assume some (or any) responsibility for things done in your name?

As I told you before, Australia's situation is not the same as it's more closer in time.

And as I've told you already in this thread, I am not assuming responsibility for something I took no part in.

Hey, GEG..textbook liberal white guilt at work right there in red. That's what I'm talkin about

Edited February 26, 2007 by LisaD

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As I told you before, Australia's situation is not the same as it's more closer in time.

And as I've told you already in this thread, I am not assuming responsibility for something I took no part in.

Hey, GEG..textbook liberal white guilt at work right there in red. That's what I'm talkin about

You’re right it’s not the same, but the question still stands – at what point do you absolve yourself* of any responsibility (indirect as it might be) for the crimes of the past?

* and by ‘you’ I’m speaking collectively

[Fandango 1,439]

As I told you before, Australia's situation is not the same as it's more closer in time.

And as I've told you already in this thread, I am not assuming responsibility for something I took no part in.

Hey, GEG..textbook liberal white guilt at work right there in red. That's what I'm talkin about

You’re right it’s not the same, but the question still stands – at what point do you absolve yourself* of any responsibility (indirect as it might be) for the crimes of the past?

* and by ‘you’ I’m speaking collectively

When the victims of xyz are still alive to hear it.

Or when the perpetrators are still around to apologise.

Lookit right...I think I've been VERY consistent in this thread & am getting rather sick of repeating myself. If you come up with something new, do let me know. Otherwise, I'm going to get on with my day cos tbh wasting time here today repeating what I said last night is pointless, as anyone can scroll to see my opinion.

I'm sure I'll check back later, lol.

You used the words circular argument the other day...how fitting that you've defined it for me in more ways than one

have a great day peeps!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As I told you before, Australia's situation is not the same as it's more closer in time.

And as I've told you already in this thread, I am not assuming responsibility for something I took no part in.

Hey, GEG..textbook liberal white guilt at work right there in red. That's what I'm talkin about

You’re right it’s not the same, but the question still stands – at what point do you absolve yourself* of any responsibility (indirect as it might be) for the crimes of the past?

* and by ‘you’ I’m speaking collectively

When the victims of xyz are still alive to hear it.

Which they are, in this case

[Fandango 1,439]

As I told you before, Australia's situation is not the same as it's more closer in time.

And as I've told you already in this thread, I am not assuming responsibility for something I took no part in.

Hey, GEG..textbook liberal white guilt at work right there in red. That's what I'm talkin about

You’re right it’s not the same, but the question still stands – at what point do you absolve yourself* of any responsibility (indirect as it might be) for the crimes of the past?

* and by ‘you’ I’m speaking collectively

When the victims of xyz are still alive to hear it.

Which they are, in this case

I highly doubt that there's anyone alive now who was alive in like 1865. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, I'm talking slaves and owners of slaves..not the word 'victims' to be used poetically to mean anyone descended from a slave.

But it's interesting to think you look at blacks of today as victims. I don't. Ergo my opinion.

ok, NOW i'm going.

[chri'stina 190]

I haven't read every page so I probably shouldn't post yet until I do, but I'm going to post anyway.

I am in many ways "conservative" or somewhat "right wing" as many here probably know by now. But I think the apology was a good thing to do.

While direct victims of slavery are not alive today, there are many alive today whose early life was horrible because of segregation and racism, as a direct result of what slavery made them in society=second class citizens or even worse. Just because they weren't slaves anymore didn't mean life was grand after that. So I do believe that anyone alive who lived through state sanctioned segregation deserved to hear this apology too.

I got no problems with an apology if it promotes the healing of old historical wounds while costing those who did not participate in the wrongdoing nothing.

I want an apology from the Italians for the Romans that enslaved my people 2000 years ago.

I'm sorry. (I'm part Roman lol)

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As I told you before, Australia's situation is not the same as it's more closer in time.

And as I've told you already in this thread, I am not assuming responsibility for something I took no part in.

Hey, GEG..textbook liberal white guilt at work right there in red. That's what I'm talkin about

You’re right it’s not the same, but the question still stands – at what point do you absolve yourself* of any responsibility (indirect as it might be) for the crimes of the past?

* and by ‘you’ I’m speaking collectively

When the victims of xyz are still alive to hear it.

Which they are, in this case

I highly doubt that there's anyone alive now who was alive in like 1865. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, I'm talking slaves and owners of slaves..not the word 'victims' to be used poetically to mean anyone descended from a slave.

But it's interesting to think you look at blacks of today as victims. I don't. Ergo my opinion.

ok, NOW i'm going.

Well those are your words, not mine.

We do after all live in an 'all-inclusive' society, which includes members of formerly repressed groups. As that govt speaks for many people, minorities included - I wonder why you don't think that a major factor that in the country’s subsequent social and socio-economic development is worthy of comment by representatives of a government which participated in that repression.

In the Australian example, the 'victims' are still alive today - I'm just wondering whether or not you think that their govt 'should' apologise, considering that it supposedly represents all the people, not just the ones who ‘don’t feel guilty’.

[chri'stina 190]

Just something more...

My family is from up North and while my parents have never been racist, my grandparents on my father's side were for many years. My grandma, who today you would never believe said such things, used to watch the civil rights movement news and just say "look, the natives are restless again" and other rude comments and they did not care about it at all. And they were in Philadelphia. The part I am thankful to God for is that they changed, in the 70's, and realized they were not acting Christ-like. My grandma is still alive and lives with my parents, and completely adores Sujeet. She's a different person than who she was in the 60's when it comes to racism.

Anyway, we sometimes pretend the North was innocent when it comes to slavery and racism. The North had slaves too, it's just they decided to end it sooner than the south, probably not for moral issues but more because they didn't need them as badly anymore. The south still "needed" them to harvest fields while the north was more industrialized. I do admire the people who truly were against slavery though and not just because of industrialization.

I do agree that the south seems to have a lot more people holding on to racism and being proud of whiteness(I have witnessed it a few times here!), but my uncle who grew up in NYC and was a rough cop type, is still racist. And now he lives in Virginia for retirement. We are not close with him, and I am sure he's made comments within his family about me marrying an Indian or "dot head" as he might say. When we visited his family in 1998 on our way to DC, he made comments about why darker people do jobs like construction, etc. There are many other northerners like him. I know of many, mostly from the older generation.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The north was certainly racist, and in many ways, more racist than the south. The worst race riots were by whites in the north protesting liberalization of Jim Crow laws that were active in the north. There was a saying that in the south, you could get close (live side by side with whites), but don't get too high (influencial and powerful); in the north you could get high, but don't get too close. You would see that patterns of housing segregation were actually more strictly drawn in the north than they were in the south. In many ways, the south has surpassed the north in racial diversity and acceptance.

[Heracles 417]

No, mostly I'm not interested in debating with you because:

1. The apology has been done, so that's that.

2. I think it's a good idea, so I'm happy.

3. I was born in Virginia, and I'm used to being surrounded by white folks who didn't get it.

4. My Ph.D. is in cultural history and law, so I've got mine and you've got yours to get.

5. I don't feel a need to argue. It's not worth it since the act has already occured.

Quick question, how do you feel about Muslims apologizing for all of the atrocities committed by them? You should have studied the otterman era..