HR is terrible in the US

[Darnell 8,478]

I would look to see if there is a society or association for actuaries in your area. I am part of this type of organization for my field of work. Each month at the end of our meeting we talk about opportunities in our area. We have hired a few folks by networking at this meeting. Best of luck.

yup - that's my advice too - zone in on, focus on the right google search terms for the NATIONAL organization, then learn of the local chapter [on a website? via telephone cause you called the national organization and talked with a human?]

then

increase your networking effort. [the following is not networking]

HR is a screening process, rarely are they 'the ones' that make the hiring decision - the fella that makes the hiring decision is either YOUR CLONE or the boss of YOUR CLONE. If I were in yer shoes, I'd go back to the building (if possible to get in) and talk a bit with the receptionist at the door, digging a bit to learn more about the department that contains the actuaries. Dig for a name or a series of names. Then go home.

Once home, call the main switchboard and ask for that human. When you talk with him, don't mention you're looking for a job, but focus instead on when the next chapter meeting is, asking if any recommended classes coming up anywhere for CE/CUE credits and ask about the location.

Then when you get the location of that school or training center - GO TALK WITH THE TEACHER THERE, face to face. Call first, get the right human, make an appointment. Continuing education is a big dealio to maintain the license in the USA. If you don't want to make this circuitous route to find the teacher - then back at the National Office, ask about Continuing Education Centers/schools/classes in your area, find the teachers through the school that way.

Finally, there are a lot of schools in the Boston Area. For the next week or so, I want you to visit each campus and talk with the professors there that teach any actuarial course, as USUALLY THEY KNOW of the jobs available, which companies use actuaries, and have direct contact names and numbers of their prior students that are working as actuaries, and they might give over that info if you ask nicely. Once you have it, contact each human via telephone, mention the professor and schools name, and then start a conversation. I've used this technique for chasing software development contracts in the past, but I'm a member of ACM and I do a lot of student outreach via ACM as well.

a bit on networking -

you want a local job in your area, so it makes sense to hang out where the actuaries hang out when they are not at work. Sure, the National Organization can lead you in the right direction on the classes - but it makes more sense to me to keep digging at the national organization, and ASK about the officers names and contact info at the chapter level. These fellas can help you, if'n you can introduce yourself the right way (again, not seeking a job convo, but the continuing education convo)...

Alrighty -that's it - that's my brain dump for the evening. I've worked with actuaries before in the USA and liverpool UK, having a software consultancy practice in both places, but mostly I'm retired and back in school chasing medical stuff and a law degree.

other stuff - you have a C.V. ? Of course you do, right? Did you convert it to standard USA resume format? I ask, because one of the first things HR does is to SCAN your resume (paper or electronic version) and slam it into a database. The C.V. format is a bit weird for their software system.

Standard Disclaimer: Your mileage may vary. Wash twice before use.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Darnell

[usame 21]

Thanks everyone for the advice, I appreciate it. I guess I just need to adjust my way of doing things to the US way. I have no problem with that - I was just ranting about all the unnecessary red tape when it comes to applying for jobs here. I will get a job, I guess I need to change my game plan to become an "American". Thanks again.

[mallafri76 1,012]

Darnell is spot on about the US style resume. First off, in the US they don't use A4 so you need to change the size of your resume to the US format. In Windows 8, it's the "letter" format. They prefer a one page resume and always a cover letter. Never attach a photo into your resume. Oh and in the US, the word to use is resume not CV, I didn't realize that until I started researching how to job hunt in the US.

Networking is a big thing and not only in the US, it's very common in Europe too. I don't know how many interviews, and subsequent job offers, I've gotten purely through contacts. And networking is tough when you've just moved to a new place and don't really know anyone. Take a course to meet people, join an actual networking group, create a profile on LinkedIn and join group discussions on your area of expertise. If you google networking groups in your area, you'll be able to find a few and hopefully some of them will accept "walk-in" members.

Good luck in your job hunt.

[sexymackeral 14]

By all means - do keep your head up. One of the my pet peeves is that in many places they won't even give you the courtesy of a call to let you know you weren't chosen or didn't make the cut. If you ask about hiring dates, they are very vague, leave you guessing and never bother to call. That is disrespectful and inconsiderate.

One way to network is to create a profile in sites such as Linked In and Monster, where your resume will be more in evidence.

Whatever you do, don't relent. Keep at it. All you need is that one call back.

Ugh I hate that too. Companies do it all.the.time! It's so rude...if I made the effort to come in for an in-person interview (and this has happened with even 2nd in person interviews), I'd appreciate letting me know I didn't make the cut. A simple non-confrontational email will do the trick. Most employers can't even be bothered with this basic courtesy nowadays.

As an American, I struggle with the frustrations of the hiring process here too... you're not alone!

As far as networking- reach out to actuarial professional organizations to see if they have local chapters or local events where you are. Definitely have a linkedin profile.

[ExPatty 502]

Hey everyone,

I would just like to vent my disappointment at finding suitable employment in the US. I am a highly qualified business professional and I am having a hard time dealing with all the red tape in the US. I recently interviewed with a company for a role I would enjoy but it seems as though the HR department just wants to drag their heels. I have been on both sides of the table when it comes to interviews and I know that there is always 1 or 2 candidates who stand out. That is when you STOP the process and make an offer. What I have experienced thus far (I have only been in the US for a few weeks) has been the most unprofessional hiring process in my entire life.

People are telling me I need to "network" but that is impossible since I only know my spouse and a few friends. I feel like this supposedly great country is anything but great. Interviewers are ill equipped to interview and HR departments are very disconnected from Hiring Managers. I was expecting better.I will not stop my job search but it's getting to the point where I am very disappointed.

All I can offer is sympathy. In my experience HR departments tend to have the least valuable people in them, compared to other departments. They just tend to attract less competent, skilled employees, and as such dealing with them is generally annoying. There are some exceptions of course.

[Adil & Jeanne 296]

Tototally agree

Someone interviewing an electical engineer and scientist when they have no idea of the work is ludicrous

My late husband had 30 years experience, worked in Federal Sytems Division at jobs he could not divulge and was told to sell himself

He was not a salesman at all / many of us are not

And all he wanted after taking an ealry buy from IBM was to stay busy

[EmigratingSwede 16]

Some companies have VERY long hiring processes as well. I had my first interview by phone before I moved. I ended up starting the job three months later after two face to face interviews. I have a collegue who they kept waiting even longer.

[nitsirk7562 82]

The US job market is awful. My husband is currently looking for a job in human resources. As a foreigner, he's a tough sell for that department. You're definitely not alone. We didn't think it would be this hard.

Just keep applying and be grateful you're getting calls. A lot of organizations have networking events. Even meetup.com has some useful groups for professionals. You can try going to a head hunter as well if you have difficulty selling yourself.

[PogWan 6]

OP, finding a job in this country can be one of the most stressful experiences ever. I'm currently working for a major global bank and have had a lot of interaction with the recruiting and HR department due to working with them directly. I was friends with the head of recruiting for a while until they left the company. It is standard behavior for them to never respond to you unless they need something from you directly no matter the form of communication.

Even with all of my direct networking with these areas I recently experienced having my position closed out and shipped to India. I found other positions in the company to apply for and even with high level executives communicating with the recruiter's boss it would still take days to get a response.

It's also normal for them to send incorrect resumes to hiring managers because they know nothing about the business, so they only scan for key phrases. I've seen this happen a number of times. I've also seen them schedule interviews for applicants, but never coordinate with the business hiring manager. Just a few weeks ago there was someone show up for an interview and one of the managers was walking around the floor asking people if they were expecting anyone. They ended up having to go back home without an interview.

I don't blame the company for this, but rather the outdated recruiting model that managers continue to utilize even though it results in universal frustration.

The best advice is what was mentioned earlier is to just keep trying until you get to know people. You'll get lucky eventually. Once you get in, talk to people and get to know them. This is crucial for your sucess in corporate America. You never know who you might need to call on for a favor in the future.

I think the average time it can take to find a skilled position is 3-6 months.

[Pennycat 880]

Hey everyone,

I would just like to vent my disappointment at finding suitable employment in the US. I am a highly qualified business professional and I am having a hard time dealing with all the red tape in the US. I recently interviewed with a company for a role I would enjoy but it seems as though the HR department just wants to drag their heels. I have been on both sides of the table when it comes to interviews and I know that there is always 1 or 2 candidates who stand out. That is when you STOP the process and make an offer. What I have experienced thus far (I have only been in the US for a few weeks) has been the most unprofessional hiring process in my entire life.

People are telling me I need to "network" but that is impossible since I only know my spouse and a few friends. I feel like this supposedly great country is anything but great. Interviewers are ill equipped to interview and HR departments are very disconnected from Hiring Managers. I was expecting better.I will not stop my job search but it's getting to the point where I am very disappointed.

A few weeks really isn't bad at all, and is really to be expected. You really need to manage your expectations better and adjust your perspective on this a bit.

I wouldn't be too quick to complain about HR. They're the only people making sure that you at least have a crack at the job. Most people actually doing the hiring would not go through the formal application/interview process if it wasn't company policy, enforced by HR. You're often in a situation in which an internal candidate already unofficially "has" the job, or the hiring manager already has an external candidate in mind and they're playing a cat-and-mouse game with HR to ensure that their candidate of choice makes it through. That cat and mouse game usually involves giving HR only a very vague idea of what the job is about, delaying timelines to such a point that candidates find another job or give up etc.

The people telling you to network are right. That's how many if not most people get non-entry-level jobs. It's hard but not impossible. I'd be careful about the "I've been here for a few weeks and I can now tell you how terrible everything about your professional culture" attitude while networking though. Not likely to get you far.

[Udella&Wiz 325]

I wouldn't blame 'HR in the US' - your experience doesn't reflect every company of course. Also it's the Recruiting area that tends to be handling this and yes, things can be slow. If there is any kind of verification of your degrees or any kind of background check which needs to be done it can take a few weeks....It is a big deal to be hiring someone foreign with foreign qualifications, that's a reality. The company itself may have guidelines that no offers are sent until all valid candidates receive the opportunity to interview. Its a process is all I'm saying.

I disagree with the comments that its all about who you know. I applied cold to the company I've since worked 7 yrs for. I was qualified and had excellent experience in my field. I also received other interview requests for other companies for similar positions when I applied.

It was easily a month from 1st contact to my start date.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Udella&Wiz

[madtownguy 164]

Some companies have VERY long hiring processes as well. I had my first interview by phone before I moved. I ended up starting the job three months later after two face to face interviews. I have a collegue who they kept waiting even longer.

I once interviewed for a position with 12 different people in 3 different states. Every person was a separate interview from 1-3 hours. Obviously they paid for travel costs, but now nothing seems excessive to me when interviewing. In my industry I'm fortunate though, I get offered a job about 3-4 times a job. Lots of poachers in my industry. That's why who you know is always better than what, had I known someone in that company with the long interview process I'm sure a lot of steps would have been cut out.

[TBoneTX 45,570]

Another reason for delay is that departments and companies are often required to interview (or wait for applications from) a certain number of "racially diverse" candidates, to thus fulfill Affirmative Action mandates.

[IcezMan_IcezLady 582]

Sorry to break it to you but if you are impatient about having to wait for a couple of weeks, don't apply to governments jobs.

It took about 2 months from interview to decision.City and government (state and fed) jobs tend to use snail mail to tell you they found a "more qualified candidate". The red tapes are ridiculous. Someone has to sign your contract and that person might be on vacation, the position might be a funded position, etc.

Make new friends. And when you meet people, make sure to drop it in there that you are job hunting. That is informal networking and I got a job through that.

HR managers is looking for specific phrases on your resume and usually, interviews are conducted with someone who will be working with you. Modify your resume to fit the job description. One thing I learned too, a great resume does not guarantee you a job sometimes they are looking for someone who will "fit in their team".Let your personality shine, it will get you jobs your resume won't.

Be patient and good luck!

[Pennycat 880]

I wouldn't blame 'HR in the US' - your experience doesn't reflect every company of course. Also it's the Recruiting area that tends to be handling this and yes, things can be slow. If there is any kind of verification of your degrees or any kind of background check which needs to be done it can take a few weeks....It is a big deal to be hiring someone foreign with foreign qualifications, that's a reality. The company itself may have guidelines that no offers are sent until all valid candidates receive the opportunity to interview. Its a process is all I'm saying.

I disagree with the comments that its all about who you know. I applied cold to the company I've since worked 7 yrs for. I was qualified and had excellent experience in my field. I also received other interview requests for other companies for similar positions when I applied.

It was easily a month from 1st contact to my start date.

It's not all about who you know and networking and such, but it is a very serious positive. My current job and the one before were "cold" applications and I got both within a matter of weeks. However, having seen how hiring those around me has gone over the years.... it is in one's best interest to work connections.

OP: depending on the nature of your career, and your career level, perhaps you could look into major consulting or professional services firms like KPMG or Deloitte or something? They tend to have a (relatively) even hiring process. But, you are guaranteed that your resume will actually be read rather than scanned by HR if your resume is put into the system by someone who already works there.