B2 Visitor Visa Denied CIMT

[Boiler 45,516]

You should have been in London when the bombs were going off. A building my brother worked in was blown up and the company had an employee murdered.

So sounds like there is no legal issue and he lied to gain access on prior trips.

[aidan80 9]

I think more information about which offence he was convicted of would be needed to give an accurate answer.

By the OPs wording I'm assuming both he and his brother are Republicans and possibly don't acknowledge that crimes against the UK Armed Forces or Police Services to be crimes at all.

I could be wrong but that's the impression I got from the post.

My own personal opinions of PIRA and the Troubles in Northern Ireland aside I would find it interesting to know the outcome of this.

I most certainly do not consider resistance against the UK a crime anymore than I'd consider the UK resisting a German occupation during WWII to be a crime. The American's didn't consider their fight against the British to be criminal. From my point of view and, I'm really not trying to spark a fight here no crime was committed anymore than it'd be right to convict an average British soldier for doing what he might have done. However it's deeply insulting to label someone a criminal whereas there's no actual crime committed in the normal sense of the word. Instead it's a by product of Thatchers "criminalisation" policy of the 1980's.

I'd be the first to acknowledge what happened back home didn't need to happen however polices applied under the Pro British Unionists, widespread gerrymandering, discrimination against Catholics in housing, employment and education. The heavy handed approach by the British didn't do much to prevent the coming storm. Under the British Tory party, namely Thatcher unfortunately inflamed the situation to a far greater extent than was needed. Conflict is an ugly, horrible beast that I'm glad has for the most part been removed from society back home. It belongs in the history books. Most normal, decent people in the North back home just want to go about their business and move on from the past and enjoy normality.

[aidan80 9]

You should have been in London when the bombs were going off. A building my brother worked in was blown up and the company had an employee murdered.

So sounds like there is no legal issue and he lied to gain access on prior trips.

That's unfortunate and sad, I'm sorry to hear you where impacted by the conflict. A lot of us in Ireland where impacted not only my loss of family members and friends, but by the daily harassing presence of the British forces and their proxies. By the 4am raids on our houses, the interrogation of our brothers, mothers, fathers, sisters etc. The daily threat of being murdered by by pro British terrorists supported by the pro British paramilitary "police" and the British state itself. There was no lie, he never committed any crime and most definitely not a CIMT. If it's a crime to resist occupation by the British then most of Ireland is guilty as are the founding fathers of the United States.

[Jawaree 717]

I'm a resident in the US (about to finally apply for citizenship) my brother his wife and children wanted to come visit the sunshine state where I reside for a family holiday. I should add some background information. I'm originally from the northwest of Ireland and we all grew up in the British occupied north of Ireland.

So everyone runs through ESTA system and my brother is denied. He applies for a B2 visa and is denied at the consulate. The interviewing officer states (CIMT) Crime Involving Moral Turpitude. He's been to the US a number of times in the past without issue, never overstayed and his alleged crime most certainly isn't involving moral turpitude nor a crime.

The alleged CIMT is 31 years old and occurred while he was in his late teens. As some of you might imagine the situation on the ground back home was at times tense to say the least. He was captured by the British and received a conviction and sentenced for riotous behavior. A political act, an act of defense most certainly not a crime in the eyes of the community. 31 years later he's never had any issues, goes to work, pays his taxes and takes care of his family etc. What happened in the past while unfortunate and unpleasant was a product of the unstable times we where in back then.

I'm not trying to start up any kind of flame war as to who's right vs wrong in what happened back home. I'm simply laying out the facts as they are. I'd like my brother to visit the US again and should he choose I'd bring him over as a family member. I feel while I can understand the interviewing officers decision and how they might intemperate the facts. That decision I feel was wrong and needs to be reassessed at a higher, more qualified level.

I understand there's a process not to appeal but to have the case reviewed in the US. I'm hoping some of you may shed some light on this process and whether my becoming a citizen would at all strengthen that case.

Thanks in advance!

Did he disclose the CIMT before his prior visits ...if no that'sone of the problems right there..they just caught that

He can apply again because it was political & many of us including the USCIS know how it was in that time over there

He should apply with a police record and and explanation of the circumstances, you been a citizen does not matter, they look

at why he never revealed that , they don't care if it was 80 yrs ago, all they can do is say yea or nay to a new app.

[aidan80 9]

Did he disclose the CIMT before his prior visits ...if no that'sone of the problems right there..they just caught that

He can apply again because it was political & many of us including the USCIS know how it was in that time over there

He should apply with a police record and and explanation of the circumstances, you been a citizen does not matter, they look

at why he never revealed that , they don't care if it was 80 yrs ago, all they can do is say yea or nay to a new app.

That's the intention. To reapply and make a strong case to reflect the fact that the alleged CIMT was political. There was two denials first was for "immigrant intent" and the second the alleged CIMT. There's no immigrant intent and the consular officer knows this as substantial evidence was provided to reflect "strong ties to his home country". Plus if he wanted to live here I could petition for him to come over. Yes he presented a letter from his employer, copy of deed on his house, bank statements, return airline tickets.. the fact his entire family are coming with him and his children are still in school/college!

I spoke to a lawyer who believes the first denial for immigrant intent was simply to cover the consular officer's ####### from scrutiny as there's no waiver for a 214(b) denial. He did state there is a waiver for the alleged CIMT denial. However the practice for denying based on immigrant intent shuts down the entire case and forces the applicant to reapply.. case closed until next time.

The plan at this stage would be to build a case to prove there wasn't infant a CIMT or at the very least avoid a 214(b) denial and allow for a waiver to be filed for the alleged CIMT should that be the ultimate denial next time. If denied again with a 214(b) and the alleged CIMT. An extreme way to circumvent the possibility of a 214(b) denial. I'd petition for him to join me in the US. That would leave only the alleged CIMT to deal with. It's an extreme way to go but I won't stand for some CO telling me my brother can't visit based on something they most likely have little to no knowledge of that happened 31 years ago.

[MacUK 983]

Northern Ireland is and I hope always will be a part of the United Kingdom, no matter what you personally believe.

Going by your logic then all attacks against coalition forces committed by insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan are completely justified. Just because you don't agree with the legitimate government doesn't give you the right to disregard the laws. PIRA and their like were nothing more than terrorists, as indeed were the Loyalist organisations who were just as bad.

I had good friends murdered by Irish terrorists but I'm doing my best to keep my personal opinions out of this debate. As should the OP.

It matters not that you don't consider Northern Ireland to be part of the UK, what matters is that it is a part and subsequently your brother has misrepresented himself by previously claiming to have never been convicted.

As I previously said, I would be very interested to see the outcome to your situation. The US has always seemed to have a very different opinion of Irish terrorism than it has of other countries, it can only be assumed due to the large number of American citizens of Irish ancestry.

[KierenHby 899]

One nation's criminal is another nation's freedom fighter.

Two sides to every coin..

[Boiler 45,516]

Exactly, why is it so difficult find positive coverage of the 911 killers in the US?

[aidan80 9]

Exactly, why is it so difficult find positive coverage of the 911 killers in the US?

Because you can't compare the terrorism that was 911 to what happened back home. Calling us Irish "terrorists" over and over again won't make your lie a fact. The biggest terrorists back home were the British themselves throughout the centuries.

[aidan80 9]

One nation's criminal is another nation's freedom fighter.

Two sides to every coin..

I agree to Boiler there (and I'm sure normally they are decent people) we are "terrorists" because that's what the BBC told them to think. Reality is never that black and white.

[Boiler 45,516]

[aidan80 9]

Northern Ireland is and I hope always will be a part of the United Kingdom, no matter what you personally believe.

Going by your logic then all attacks against coalition forces committed by insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan are completely justified. Just because you don't agree with the legitimate government doesn't give you the right to disregard the laws. PIRA and their like were nothing more than terrorists, as indeed were the Loyalist organisations who were just as bad.

I had good friends murdered by Irish terrorists but I'm doing my best to keep my personal opinions out of this debate. As should the OP.

It matters not that you don't consider Northern Ireland to be part of the UK, what matters is that it is a part and subsequently your brother has misrepresented himself by previously claiming to have never been convicted.

As I previously said, I would be very interested to see the outcome to your situation. The US has always seemed to have a very different opinion of Irish terrorism than it has of other countries, it can only be assumed due to the large number of American citizens of Irish ancestry.

What I and you believe is irrelevant, the facts are simple. The British occupied and plundered throughout the centuries as they expanded their "empire". What will happen in Ireland is we will take back our 6 counties weather your kind like it or not. If you want to talk about the legitimate government of Ireland lets look at the general election in 1918. Sinn Fein won the general election on a platform of forming an independent government of Ireland. With a majority in the country voting for their liberty that revolutionary government was formed. The people voted to be free and the response from the British is as predictable as ever.. violence. That violence then was met with resistance. You've some cheek to dare claim the British government have or had any right in my country as a legitimate government. You can't steal something then claim it's yours.. by what right? No I'm sorry your kind ensured your loyalist offspring in the Northeast of Ireland would have access to information, weapons and whatever else they needed to act as your proxy terrorist force in Ireland. You can't compare Afghanistan to Ireland.. They were harboring terrorists and told to give them up. They got what they deserved in the end. We had hundreds of years of occupation, genocide, murder, rape and theft to deal with form our lovely neighbours next door.

I believe in the principle of consent for the people of Ireland. We the people of Ireland (not the British or anyone else) will choose our own path, our own destiny on our own without any interference from the outside. That's the thing about democracy.. The British didn't like that in 1919 therefore they invented the North of Ireland to keep their rapid loyalists happy. See how that worked out for you.

The US has a different opinion than the British because they understand something some in the British establishment refuse to comprehend. Theft is theft.. you can't steal another mans land and not expect to a response. That response can't simply be called a "crime" and that's that.

[Boiler 45,516]

This was the building my Brother worked in. The company had a Chauffeur and he was outside with his daughter when the bomb went off. The daughter was killed. If memory served me right it was on a Friday evening, defective fuse otherwise the toll would have been much higher.

[aidan80 9]

This was the building my Brother worked in. The company had a Chauffeur and he was outside with his daughter when the bomb went off. The daughter was killed. If memory served me right it was on a Friday evening, defective fuse otherwise the toll would have been much higher.

Its sad and unfortunate but it's the ugly reality of a centuries long conflict. You can keep posting pictures and I could do the same in return and we can go back and forth on this forever. It's not changing anything nor will it bring anyone back.

[Boiler 45,516]

Denying the reality of the situation will not produce a visa.

Like I said the US view changed somewhat after 911.