A Georgetown law professor just perfectly captured the absurdity of Confederate pride

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

That was indeed shocking. A true What The F moment.

The Lindsey Graham flag.

I'm not shocked. That's why I see it the way I do. Just like even though this horrible was committed by a hateful little man sprouting about racist beliefs, the media decided to say, let's talk about gun violence, and aired a segment about it, featuring only black people as the shooters.

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/chuck-todd-gun-violence-video-n379301

This country has no problems whitewashing. But when it comes to guns, they let us have all the credit, as long as it's negative...

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Well, a Houston lawyer's NRA chatroom and one state legislator from SC are hardly "mainstream media". So if that's all you got, then you _are_ pressing hard. I googled and found this about the Aurora shooting: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/rep-gohmert-did-no-one-else-in-aurora-theater-have-a-gun/.

There's a difference between asking if someone was carrying and flat out saying the victims just waited to be killed. My point is the same thing wouldn't be said in any other case.

[blahblahblog 36]

I don't think you read the article. But I actually don't care about this specific debate. Yes, there is a lot of institutionalized racism in the media in the US.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I don't think you read the article. But I actually don't care about this specific debate. Yes, there is a lot of institutionalized racism in the media in the US.

I read both. But as you said this isn't what the debate is about.

As for this debate about the flag, there are many other ways to honor the dead and the history without the flag.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Therefore, it stands to reason that anyone should be able to proudly display their Mexican flag in TX without reprieve... You'll get some major slack from the motley crew....

Thanks by the way for your reply. Some days it's like fishing in a barrel...

However, back to the confederate flag, it really has no place in modern history other than a symbol of intolerance, ignorance, racism and everything America stands against. It represents a shameful ideal, no differently than the swastika, and has no place in our country. The winners get to write history, not the losers.

I'm surprised you couldn't see it from your high horse but every government property in TX that has the confederate flag also has the mexican flag. And a spanish, texas, france and us flag. It's called "six flags over texas".

Sousuke is right. People that wear confederate battle flags around are just proud racists. But removing flags from places where there is meaningful context (the flag in the SC capitol is a memorial flag for the soldiers that died in the confederacy) is whitewashing history.

Edited June 27, 2015 by JohnR!

[Sousuke 1,214]

The winners get to write history, not the losers.

Whilst this may be reality, it certainly should not be something we strive for.

[JohnR! 5,495]

If we're going to honor all the losers we should also fly the British flag everywhere and celebrate their heritage.

I still wonder what it is that the confederates are celebrating? Having their derrieres kicked so badly they couldn't tell their heads from their tails? Being defeated and having their cities burned to the ground? Or is it the fact that their campaign to keep the ownership of other human beings legal failed? Seriously, what is so honorable and virtuous about the confederate cause? As I said before, these people need to get over themselves and get with the program.

Whilst this may be reality, it certainly should not be something we strive for.

Edited June 28, 2015 by JohnR!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If we're going to honor all the losers we should also fly the British flag everywhere and celebrate their heritage.

Plus the Japanese, Italian and Nazi Germany flags, please. Let's fly the Soviet flag, too, for good measure.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Perhaps instead of flying the confederate flag we should just fly a gold star flag in recognition for their initiative? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Plus the Japanese, Italian and Nazi Germany flags, please. Let's fly the Soviet flag, too, for good measure.

[blahblahblog 36]

Therefore, it stands to reason that anyone should be able to proudly display their Mexican flag in TX without reprieve... You'll get some major slack from the motley crew....

Thanks by the way for your reply. Some days it's like fishing in a barrel...

However, back to the confederate flag, it really has no place in modern history other than a symbol of intolerance, ignorance, racism and everything America stands against. It represents a shameful ideal, no differently than the swastika, and has no place in our country. The winners get to write history, not the losers.

I am 100% of the opinion that people should be able to fly Mexican flags without reprieve. I find that motley crew just as idiots as the current one that wants to throw all of the confederate flags into the memory hole.

Your ignorance of the complexity of symbols and meaning also is high on display here. Most of the symbols with a history acquire their meaning from context. Because you live in your own bubble, you assume that the meaning of the confederate flag that every human has is the same as yours, the racist one. Are you remotely aware that the swastika is a religious symbol in indian and chinese cultures? Are the swastika in Hindu temples a symbol of white supremacy?

Your "fishing in a barrel" comment is shameful. I'm glad you're happy you "won" an argument on the internet.

If we're going to honor all the losers we should also fly the British flag everywhere and celebrate their heritage.

I still wonder what it is that the confederates are celebrating? Having their derrieres kicked so badly they couldn't tell their heads from their tails? Being defeated and having their cities burned to the ground? Or is it the fact that their campaign to keep the ownership of other human beings legal failed? Seriously, what is so honorable and virtuous about the confederate cause? As I said before, these people need to get over themselves and get with the program.

I don't know if you really don't get it or you're intentionally obtuse. Yes, independence war memorials should have British flags and some actually do. Maybe this is news for you and you'll start a movement to remove all the UK flags? I'm not saying "let's have confederate flags everywhere", I'm saying "let the flags that fly in an appropriate context stand".

And you really have no idea what a flag in a memorial obelisk is celebrating? Here's a hint: there are families in those regions that have great grandfathers who died in one of these wars. They like the idea of preserving those historical sites and like memorials for their long gone relatives. And yes, they were fighting for a wrong headed cause. But guess what, most of these guys were just poor and young folks that happened to live in the south.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I am 100% of the opinion that people should be able to fly Mexican flags without reprieve. I find that motley crew just as idiots as the current one that wants to throw all of the confederate flags into the memory hole.

Your ignorance of the complexity of symbols and meaning also is high on display here. Most of the symbols with a history acquire their meaning from context. Because you live in your own bubble, you assume that the meaning of the confederate flag that every human has is the same as yours, the racist one. Are you remotely aware that the swastika is a religious symbol in indian and chinese cultures? Are the swastika in Hindu temples a symbol of white supremacy?

Your "fishing in a barrel" comment is shameful. I'm glad you're happy you "won" an argument on the internet.

I don't know if you really don't get it or you're intentionally obtuse. Yes, independence war memorials should have British flags and some actually do. Maybe this is news for you and you'll start a movement to remove all the UK flags? I'm not saying "let's have confederate flags everywhere", I'm saying "let the flags that fly in an appropriate context stand".

And you really have no idea what a flag in a memorial obelisk is celebrating? Here's a hint: there are families in those regions that have great grandfathers who died in one of these wars. They like the idea of preserving those historical sites and like memorials for their long gone relatives. And yes, they were fighting for a wrong headed cause. But guess what, most of these guys were just poor and young folks that happened to live in the south.

With that very same argument, one could make the case for flying the Nazi flags in Germany. And that ain't happening either. Why? Well, some causes are just so wrong that you don't get to do it. Slavery is one of those causes.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Again, you continue to miss the point. The confederate flag deserves as much prominence, and should command as much respect as the Nazi flag. Slavery is no more acceptable or honorable than genocide, and in fact, oftentimes both walked hand in hand throughout history. Perhaps I do live in a bubble of enlightenment education and critical thinking. It's not a bad place from which to contemplate the world and it's not an exclusive place either. Consider reading about the history of this country.

I am 100% of the opinion that people should be able to fly Mexican flags without reprieve. I find that motley crew just as idiots as the current one that wants to throw all of the confederate flags into the memory hole.

Your ignorance of the complexity of symbols and meaning also is high on display here. Most of the symbols with a history acquire their meaning from context. Because you live in your own bubble, you assume that the meaning of the confederate flag that every human has is the same as yours, the racist one. Are you remotely aware that the swastika is a religious symbol in indian and chinese cultures? Are the swastika in Hindu temples a symbol of white supremacy?

Your "fishing in a barrel" comment is shameful. I'm glad you're happy you "won" an argument on the internet.

I don't know if you really don't get it or you're intentionally obtuse. Yes, independence war memorials should have British flags and some actually do. Maybe this is news for you and you'll start a movement to remove all the UK flags? I'm not saying "let's have confederate flags everywhere", I'm saying "let the flags that fly in an appropriate context stand".

And you really have no idea what a flag in a memorial obelisk is celebrating? Here's a hint: there are families in those regions that have great grandfathers who died in one of these wars. They like the idea of preserving those historical sites and like memorials for their long gone relatives. And yes, they were fighting for a wrong headed cause. But guess what, most of these guys were just poor and young folks that happened to live in the south.

You'd think this to be evident and yet, here we are.... Go figure...

With that very same argument, one could make the case for flying the Nazi flags in Germany. And that ain't happening either. Why? Well, some causes are just so wrong that you don't get to do it. Slavery is one of those causes.

[blahblahblog 36]

Again, you continue to miss the point. The confederate flag deserves as much prominence, and should command as much respect as the Nazi flag. Slavery is no more acceptable or honorable than genocide, and in fact, oftentimes both walked hand in hand throughout history. Perhaps I do live in a bubble of enlightenment education and critical thinking. It's not a bad place from which to contemplate the world and it's not an exclusive place either. Consider reading about the history of this country.

You'd think this to be evident and yet, here we are.... Go figure...

I already spoke about the distinctions between the Nazi symbols and the confederate ones.

You'd actually be surprised with my understanding of the history and social structures of the US east of the Mississipi. I'm not super new to this country and I have lived in the east coast, the midwest, south and now texas. I also go out and try to learn as much as I can from the places I live by interacting with locals, roaming tiny museums and joining quirky local festivals. I actually met quite a few of the southerners and got an actual understanding of their relationships with the confederate war and its outcome. The confederate flag doesn't represent hatred of black people. It represents their hatred of the Yankees, the "godless liberals" that like to mock their christianism and their moonshine and their NASCAR in SNL sketches. Are they racists? Oh yes. But not more racist a good number of the upstate Massachusetts folks I interacted with (I'm not white and I can feel these things). And these Massachusetts folks had no confederate flags.

Any way, I clearly spent way too much time with this already. You can stay there contemplating the world from your glorious "bubble of enlightenment education and critical thinking".

[JohnR! 5,495]

And I already explained to you, in detail, why your vision is misguided. Enjoy you bliss.

I already spoke about the distinctions between the Nazi symbols and the confederate ones.

You'd actually be surprised with my understanding of the history and social structures of the US east of the Mississipi. I'm not super new to this country and I have lived in the east coast, the midwest, south and now texas. I also go out and try to learn as much as I can from the places I live by interacting with locals, roaming tiny museums and joining quirky local festivals. I actually met quite a few of the southerners and got an actual understanding of their relationships with the confederate war and its outcome. The confederate flag doesn't represent hatred of black people. It represents their hatred of the Yankees, the "godless liberals" that like to mock their christianism and their moonshine and their NASCAR in SNL sketches. Are they racists? Oh yes. But not more racist a good number of the upstate Massachusetts folks I interacted with (I'm not white and I can feel these things). And these Massachusetts folks had no confederate flags.

Any way, I clearly spent way too much time with this already. You can stay there contemplating the world from your glorious "bubble of enlightenment education and critical thinking".

[Sousuke 1,214]

If we're going to honor all the losers we should also fly the British flag everywhere and celebrate their heritage.

I still wonder what it is that the confederates are celebrating? Having their derrieres kicked so badly they couldn't tell their heads from their tails? Being defeated and having their cities burned to the ground? Or is it the fact that their campaign to keep the ownership of other human beings legal failed? Seriously, what is so honorable and virtuous about the confederate cause? As I said before, these people need to get over themselves and get with the program.

We were talking about history not honoring those who lost.