A Georgetown law professor just perfectly captured the absurdity of Confederate pride

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Germans prefer to use the Iron Cross because that was their battle insignia. And that's what you'll find in memorials. But you'll also see in some places the eagle sitting in the swastika, though Germans find that too unsettling and removed most. I personally find the denazification laws in Germany whitewashing. You shouldn't pretend the past didn't happen. You should keep it in your books and in your buildings as a memory of all that happen, good and bad.

This is a highly pertinent question, actually. Right after the civil war, the confederate memorials used the _battle flag_ of the confederacy (the one that's famous) and not the the national flag of the confederacy because it's how you normally honor your dead. During the civil rights era, Southern Democrats appropriated that flag as a symbol of the old south in their efforts to keep their "separate but equal" policies that were being challenged.

There's no whitewashing of history in Germany. The country does in no way pretend that the atrocities of Nazi Germany didn't happen. Quite the opposite is the case. Glorifying and idolizing it, that's what is illegal. And rightfully so. It'as nothing to be proud of. Same goes for the history of slavery. It's nothing to be proud of at all.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

There's no whitewashing of history in Germany. The country does in no way pretend that the atrocities of Nazi Germany didn't happen. Quite the opposite is the case. Glorifying and idolizing it, that's what is illegal. And rightfully so. It'as nothing to be proud of. Same goes for the history of slavery. It's nothing to be proud of at all.

BAM!

[blahblahblog 36]

There's no whitewashing of history in Germany. The country does in no way pretend that the atrocities of Nazi Germany didn't happen. Quite the opposite is the case. Glorifying and idolizing it, that's what is illegal. And rightfully so. It'as nothing to be proud of. Same goes for the history of slavery. It's nothing to be proud of at all.

There is glorifying, then there is acknowledging and then there is throwing things in the memory hole. And denazification laws are closer to the latter. I'm not saying they should preserve every single swastika, but they went out of their way to remove every possible symbol of Nazi Germany they could find. There are some publications that you can only obtain in Germany if you're a scholar. Imo, this is a result from a moral panic, not societal regret.

If the flag was flying in the way it was shown here, I would 100% be in favor of removing it. If I was from SC, I'd be ashamed of this. A high flying proeminent flag, right?

Now this is how the flag looks like when seen from an angle that is more realistic:

This is a flag flying in front of a memorial obelisk, that about 30' high, probably lower than the palm trees. It's not glorification of the deep south racism. It's a memorial for soldiers that died under that flag. Do we need to remove it? Do we need to remove every single flag?

Sure, that flag defended some horrible policies, but I'm still all for honouring those who died in war, from all sides. That includes Nazi and Japanese soldiers. Hell, even the Arlington memorial has a lot for the confederacy dead. If I had kids and took them to visit that place, I'd use that spot as a great opportunity to teach them about the confederate war and how bad racial policies can lead to bad outcomes. Brazil has a troubled history with racism and I only understood the brutality of it when I visited old slave markets and slave punishment plazas. Sure, reading in a book gives you a sense, but the buildings and memorials and remains make it much real, much more concrete.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Flying the flag that stood for slavery on public property is glorifying that history. And that's just wrong. I know that some will see it differently. Some even today still don't see black people as equal - or as human even. And those folks relish in that glorification. I don't believe they deserve that opportunity. Plain and simple. There are history books and museums. And that is where this stuff belongs so that we may not forget that dark chapter of American history.

[Sousuke 1,214]

I'm for taking down that flag, but now people want to remove the memorials as well..... thats too far

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Flying the flag that stood for slavery on public property is glorifying that history. And that's just wrong. I know that some will see it differently. Some even today still don't see black people as equal - or as human even. And those folks relish in that glorification. I don't believe they deserve that opportunity. Plain and simple. There are history books and museums. And that is where this stuff belongs so that we may not forget that dark chapter of American history.

Sadly, this is evident in this latest mass shooting. The comments and the way the media has been handling things shows us once again that being black in this country, even when you've done nothing wrong, you can still be blamed for your death and sympathy is asked for the killer's family.

I'm disgusted that these people killed in a house of God have been portrayed as sitting around waiting for their deaths. Or the pastor was at fault because he didn't want guns inside the church. Or even the fact the judge presiding over the case reminded people to pray for the other victims, the shooter's parents.

[blahblahblog 36]

Flying the flag that stood for slavery on public property is glorifying that history. And that's just wrong. I know that some will see it differently. Some even today still don't see black people as equal - or as human even. And those folks relish in that glorification. I don't believe they deserve that opportunity. Plain and simple. There are history books and museums. And that is where this stuff belongs so that we may not forget that dark chapter of American history.

That flag stood for a lot of things, including slavery. It also stood for an army. And a most of those soldiers weren't racist slave owners. They were just poor kids that happened to live in the wrong region of the country. You're probably aware that some of those soldiers were black (not a lot though, to be fair). In that specific setting, the flag is doing just that, honouring those soldiers lives.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

That flag stood for a lot of things, including slavery. It also stood for an army. And a most of those soldiers weren't racist slave owners. They were just poor kids that happened to live in the wrong region of the country. You're probably aware that some of those soldiers were black (not a lot though, to be fair). In that specific setting, the flag is doing just that, honouring those soldiers lives.

It stood for slavery. And that is why it cannot fly alongside other flags. Plain. And. Simple.

[Sousuke 1,214]

That flag stood for a lot of things, including slavery. It also stood for an army. And a most of those soldiers weren't racist slave owners. They were just poor kids that happened to live in the wrong region of the country. You're probably aware that some of those soldiers were black (not a lot though, to be fair). In that specific setting, the flag is doing just that, honouring those soldiers lives.

I think the memorials themselves can honor them without the flag personally. You are right though in that the majority of soldiers were not slave owners (I think less than 3% were owners).

Lee, Pickett etc were anti slavery.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Confederate Gay Pride!

[blahblahblog 36]

Sadly, this is evident in this latest mass shooting. The comments and the way the media has been handling things shows us once again that being black in this country, even when you've done nothing wrong, you can still be blamed for your death and sympathy is asked for the killer's family.

I'm disgusted that these people killed in a house of God have been portrayed as sitting around waiting for their deaths. Or the pastor was at fault because he didn't want guns inside the church. Or even the fact the judge presiding over the case reminded people to pray for the other victims, the shooter's parents.

I didn't see any blaming the victim in what I saw, but I'm not a media rat. Most of what saw focused on the killer's racism, on the victim families incredible display of forgiveness and on the horrific nature of people being gunned down during bible study. Then I saw John Oliver's thing about the confederate flag.

I just google the thing about the judge though. That's horrible.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Sadly, this is evident in this latest mass shooting. The comments and the way the media has been handling things shows us once again that being black in this country, even when you've done nothing wrong, you can still be blamed for your death and sympathy is asked for the killer's family.

I'm disgusted that these people killed in a house of God have been portrayed as sitting around waiting for their deaths. Or the pastor was at fault because he didn't want guns inside the church. Or even the fact the judge presiding over the case reminded people to pray for the other victims, the shooter's parents.

That was indeed shocking. A true What The F moment.

Confederate Gay Pride!

The Lindsey Graham flag.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I didn't see any blaming the victim in what I saw, but I'm not a media rat. Most of what saw focused on the killer's racism, on the victim families incredible display of forgiveness and on the horrific nature of people being gunned down during bible study. Then I saw John Oliver's thing about the confederate flag.

I just google the thing about the judge though. That's horrible.

http://news.yahoo.com/nra-executive-suggests-slain-charleston-pastor-blame-gun-043458974.html;_ylt=A86.JyM.4o1VuTAAuZgnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTE0ZGoyaWFhBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM0BHZ0aWQDRkZYVUkzNV8xBHNlYwNzcg--#

In an online thread about Wednesday night's mass shooting at the Emanuel African Methodist Church in Charleston, Cotton said that one of the nine people slain, church pastor and Democratic state Senator Clementa Pinckney, had voted against legislation in 2011 that would have allowed concealed possession of handguns in restaurants, day-care centers and churches.

"Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead," Cotton wrote.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/24/1396033/-SC-Republican-lawmaker-says-church-shooting-victims-sat-there-and-waited-their-turn-to-be-shot

We're focusing on the wrong thing here. We need to be focusing on the nine families that are left and see that this doesn't happen again. These people sat in there and waited their turn to be shot. That's sad. If somebody in there with a means of self-defense could have stopped this and we'd have less funerals than we're having ... I mean you got one skinny person shooting their gun, you know, I mean, we need to take, do what we can.

I think that the guy who said this might have apologized by this point, but it highlights what I said earlier. Because in prior mass shootings, you'd be hard pressed to find someone saying the kids in Sandy Hook didn't run fast enough and the teachers should have fought back. Or the people in Aurora, CO were at fault for going to the midnight showing of Batman. Or the folks in Waco shouldn't have been in a bar where some bikers were meeting.

There's a DLOE when it comes to black victims or and an EAOH when it comes to black perps.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

http://news.yahoo.com/nra-executive-suggests-slain-charleston-pastor-blame-gun-043458974.html;_ylt=A86.JyM.4o1VuTAAuZgnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTE0ZGoyaWFhBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM0BHZ0aWQDRkZYVUkzNV8xBHNlYwNzcg--#

In an online thread about Wednesday night's mass shooting at the Emanuel African Methodist Church in Charleston, Cotton said that one of the nine people slain, church pastor and Democratic state Senator Clementa Pinckney, had voted against legislation in 2011 that would have allowed concealed possession of handguns in restaurants, day-care centers and churches.

"Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead," Cotton wrote.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/24/1396033/-SC-Republican-lawmaker-says-church-shooting-victims-sat-there-and-waited-their-turn-to-be-shot

We're focusing on the wrong thing here. We need to be focusing on the nine families that are left and see that this doesn't happen again. These people sat in there and waited their turn to be shot. That's sad. If somebody in there with a means of self-defense could have stopped this and we'd have less funerals than we're having ... I mean you got one skinny person shooting their gun, you know, I mean, we need to take, do what we can.

I think that the guy who said this might have apologized by this point, but it highlights what I said earlier. Because in prior mass shootings, you'd be hard pressed to find someone saying the kids in Sandy Hook didn't run fast enough and the teachers should have fought back. Or the people in Aurora, CO were at fault for going to the midnight showing of Batman. Or the folks in Waco shouldn't have been in a bar where some bikers were meeting.

There's a DLOE when it comes to black victims or and an EAOH when it comes to black perps.

To be fair, the NRA dimwits and numbnuts also blamed the carnage at Sandy Hook on a lack of guns. They always do. Whenever there's gun violence, they call for more guns. Which makes as much sense as calling for more water in a flood. But such are the mindless fools that make up that organization.

[blahblahblog 36]

http://news.yahoo.com/nra-executive-suggests-slain-charleston-pastor-blame-gun-043458974.html;_ylt=A86.JyM.4o1VuTAAuZgnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTE0ZGoyaWFhBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM0BHZ0aWQDRkZYVUkzNV8xBHNlYwNzcg--#

In an online thread about Wednesday night's mass shooting at the Emanuel African Methodist Church in Charleston, Cotton said that one of the nine people slain, church pastor and Democratic state Senator Clementa Pinckney, had voted against legislation in 2011 that would have allowed concealed possession of handguns in restaurants, day-care centers and churches.

"Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead," Cotton wrote.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/24/1396033/-SC-Republican-lawmaker-says-church-shooting-victims-sat-there-and-waited-their-turn-to-be-shot

We're focusing on the wrong thing here. We need to be focusing on the nine families that are left and see that this doesn't happen again. These people sat in there and waited their turn to be shot. That's sad. If somebody in there with a means of self-defense could have stopped this and we'd have less funerals than we're having ... I mean you got one skinny person shooting their gun, you know, I mean, we need to take, do what we can.

I think that the guy who said this might have apologized by this point, but it highlights what I said earlier. Because in prior mass shootings, you'd be hard pressed to find someone saying the kids in Sandy Hook didn't run fast enough and the teachers should have fought back. Or the people in Aurora, CO were at fault for going to the midnight showing of Batman. Or the folks in Waco shouldn't have been in a bar where some bikers were meeting.

There's a DLOE when it comes to black victims or and an EAOH when it comes to black perps.

Well, a Houston lawyer's NRA chatroom and one state legislator from SC are hardly "mainstream media". So if that's all you got, then you _are_ pressing hard. I googled and found this about the Aurora shooting: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/rep-gohmert-did-no-one-else-in-aurora-theater-have-a-gun/.