For those who already have kids....sort of

[peezey 0]

I thought of this today, I guess it relates to things to discuss with your SO. However, for those who already have children, and the wife isn't Muslim, what did you discuss about raising your children in realtion to religion? Did things change once you were pregnant or had the baby?

I've had a couple friends get a bit of a surprise once they had kids. Their husbands became more interested in regular Islamic practice, etc, when the kids came, which is something that seems normal once you get older and have a family to raise, but is totally different than they originally discussed prior to having children.

I'm atheist, and my husband is not religious, but I'm certain when we have kids they will know they are muslim, and will be raised in a way that reflects that. The biggest problem with this is that, as their mother, I should be their primary religion teacher when they are young, and while I can do the basics, it's certainly going to be a tremendous test for me, and not at all conventional or traditional.

How did you all work this out? I'm sure it's an ongoing process, since nothing you "agree" to a few years ago really holds true later. We all grow and change, become more rooted in our values and beliefs, and while core values won't change, the way we might go about living our values can.

Edited February 19, 2007 by peezey

[UmmSqueakster 54]

This is a trend I've noticed as well. I do hope that everyone has had a children related talk with their SO.

[Bosco 1]

This is a trend I've noticed as well. I do hope that everyone has had a children related talk with their SO.

And that both parties are forthcoming and honest about how they feel and don't feel it is something they can take charge of later.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Some potential topics of discussion:

Holidays - will the kiddies be dressing up and going trick-or-treating? Celebrating Christmas? Easter egg hunts? Eids?

Dress - will the girls be encouraged/required to dress more modestly as they get older? Shorts? Swimsuits?

Education - Sunday school at the mosque?

Extra Curriculars - dancing, sports, music?

Living - will he want to move back to his country to raise his kids in a muslim environment?

[MrsAmera 41]

VERY Important subject! My husband and I are both Muslim alhamdulah. I think that if I would not have reverted our life would really be a struggle. Not just with kids but our relationship with each other. But on the kiddo subject. I have a son who is not my husband's biological child. When he was the only one life was a bit easier and he sorta did his own thing (he's only 3). Obviously his diet was similar to ours and he did go to the mosque etc. Now that we have another child, who is my husband's biological child our attitude has changed. If we are going to be a family unity there has to be some continuity. I had to make this abundantly clear to my family who insisted my son was still Christian and should go to sunday school. In the long run, we will create and nurture an Islamic upbringing but ultimately I don't want to confine my children to one faith. I want them to explore and learn about all religions. I know that Christianity didn't work for me. I hope and pray that they love Islam but I'm not so nieve as to think that I can force them into faith. I am really thankful (honestly) that we did have another son as our discussions about a possible daughter sort of shocked me. My husband said that he would move back to Morocco with her and would never raise her here. It shocked me because he chose to marry me, an American, who was raised here and yet this country isn't good enough to raise our child? *sigh* We had some discussions about this but it didn't get to far because I get upset too easy! I think part of his issue was that he was still fresh to the country and his perceptions of a lot of things were skewed. I agree that if you are planning to have kids or already do you MUST talk to your SO about this issue. You might be surprised at what happens after they are born (both good and bad - my hubby refused to change diapers....he's a pro now! but shhh don't tell me MIL)

[Bosco 1]

VERY Important subject! My husband and I are both Muslim alhamdulah. I think that if I would not have reverted our life would really be a struggle. Not just with kids but our relationship with each other. But on the kiddo subject. I have a son who is not my husband's biological child. When he was the only one life was a bit easier and he sorta did his own thing (he's only 3). Obviously his diet was similar to ours and he did go to the mosque etc. Now that we have another child, who is my husband's biological child our attitude has changed. If we are going to be a family unity there has to be some continuity. I had to make this abundantly clear to my family who insisted my son was still Christian and should go to sunday school. In the long run, we will create and nurture an Islamic upbringing but ultimately I don't want to confine my children to one faith. I want them to explore and learn about all religions. I know that Christianity didn't work for me. I hope and pray that they love Islam but I'm not so nieve as to think that I can force them into faith. I am really thankful (honestly) that we did have another son as our discussions about a possible daughter sort of shocked me. My husband said that he would move back to Morocco with her and would never raise her here. It shocked me because he chose to marry me, an American, who was raised here and yet this country isn't good enough to raise our child? *sigh* We had some discussions about this but it didn't get to far because I get upset too easy! I think part of his issue was that he was still fresh to the country and his perceptions of a lot of things were skewed. I agree that if you are planning to have kids or already do you MUST talk to your SO about this issue. You might be surprised at what happens after they are born (both good and bad - my hubby refused to change diapers....he's a pro now! but shhh don't tell me MIL)

Does he cook? I often wonder if this is more common with men who view male/female roles as very specific, or if it is just about diapers/raising children.

[MrsAmera 41]

No I think it's more of a "I was a spoiled child" thing He does cook but he was the baby of 9 kids and so his responsibilities in the family were pretty limited. Before he came he was like "oh no diapers that's a woman's job" but once he got here and saw how hard I was working I thinking that it woke him up. He cooks. cleans, washes clothes, babysits and changes diapers now! Culture clash maybe? Or seeing me passed out in bed by 8:30 every night? I think most SO's see the US in a different light once they get here as well as preconcieved gender roles.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

My 5 Muslim children were raised by a Christian dad and Muslim mom. My father's youngest brother raised 4 kids with a Christian mom and a Muslim dad, and only four are still Muslim. I've seen studies that show that in the west, it is more likely that children raised by a Muslim mother will remain Muslim more than those raised with a Muslim father and a non-Muslim mother. Fatwas regarding Muslim men marrying non-Muslim women in dar-al-harb have determined it to be mukrah for more than a thousand years.

However, to be practical, mixed marriages are the norm in the west, and children do leave Islam even when both parents are Msulim. I think a lot of it has to do with how influential each parent is in their child's religious development, and also how important ritual is in your family life. My husband didn't do Christmas trees and Easter bunnies, so we didn't have that to negotiate. Fasting is found in both faith communities, as is daily prayer. We knew what each faith has in common and emphaised those elements.

A Bible thumper or a Wahabi are not going to mesh well together. Bible thumpers are not for all Christians and Wahabis are not for all Muslims. What you have to do is find the right fit for you. Not to mention the fact that you can target your kids for any religion you wish, but what sticks to them is out of your hands.

Edited February 19, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Speaking of Dar al Harb, has anyone read Tariq Ramadan's Western Muslims and his discussion on reinterpreting the world?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Yes. Muslims and the west is a major subject of interest of mine. I have two new books to recommend, "Mecca and Main Street, Muslim Life in America after 9/11" by Geneive Abdo, and "American Islam; The Struggle for the Soul of a Religion", by Paul M. Barrett.

Edited February 19, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[UmmSqueakster 54]

I prefer not to consider Europe and the US dar al harb. I forgot the word he uses though. will have to dig it up tonight.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Dar al-dawa or dar al-shahada.

[Nasturtium 500]

We discussed it before even agreeing to engagement, because we felt it was THAT serious. We decided to emphasize what we have in common, and when they are old enough we will teach them what is entailed in each religion and not hinder them one way or the other, but have discussions, figure out what they feel, etc. Kids won't confuse them if they are taught properly. Kids can learn two languages, they can learn two religions and seperate them. But it's really up to the parents to work on this. He and I have everything but 4 things in common, two things being major sticking points (prophethood of Mohammed vs Divinity of Jesus, the two basics for being a member of each religion LOL). So? We also were 100% honest with each other, we're not under some strange belief that the other person WANTS the kids to be the other religion. But we also agreed to accept and love our children for what they are. The plan, we decided, is open. The plan is subject to change at any time but the plan must be thoroughly discussed and revisited. The plan is not to change in secret. Modesty, etc is not an issue with us. Where we'll have sticking points is if a daughter decided she loved soccer and wanted to wear shorts.. I'd be more likely to say "fine" and he'd say "haram." May not be an issue though, since we plan to move back to jordan eventually and raise the kids. Both of us just feel, in general, it's safer.

(As a side note, I agree with GEG that you can teach all you want, but kids will grow up and make their own decisions. My Dh feels the same way. And also most studies show in teh West a mother isn the primary influence in her children's religion, which is supported by GEG's observations).

[doodlebug 3]

Speaking of Dar al Harb, has anyone read Tariq Ramadan's Western Muslims and his discussion on reinterpreting the world?

No but I read his manifesto for a new "WE". It was interesting to say the least. Isn't he kind of controversial in the muslim world?

[Bosco 1]

I have only known one couple where the man didn't insist his children be raised Muslim, and in this case he basically converted to Christianity himself. I do know a few couples where the man wasn't overtly religious (didn't pray, attend mosque, etc) where the children grew up with minimal teachings of both religions (basically the holidays).

Does anyone know any "religious" Muslim men who actually followed through with what they said before children and let them have a Christian or Jewish upbringing or the 50/50 concept that worked out to be anything more than secular observance of Christian holidays?

With all the bi-religious couples my family knew growing up, I really cannot think of one where Islam did not end up being the children's primary religion (whether or not the children were actively practicing is another issue). The first one I mentioned is in a Yahoo group I belong too.

Edited February 19, 2007 by Bosco