I751 Waiver help needed

[Ineedhelp1 0]

My US citizen is filing for divorce. I have a temporary green card so I understand that I will need to file the 1751 waiver.

Here is my story. I met my ex sophomore year of college and we started to like each other and see each other off and on. by the end of my junior year we got serious and moved in together. We lived together for about a year and then we decided to get married after I graduated.

Date of marriage was April 25th 2014

Our marriage suffered a few months later and I had a full time job but the problems started to destroy me as a person. Anyway long story short I had my conditional green card interview on sep 2014 and we went in and since I knew we had not done anything wrong and had nothing to worry about we would do good. Surely the officer told us that she had no issues with us and we joked around and she was very nice. I got acceptance update via text the same day.

Soon after the emotional torture begin where i would find out through people that my ex was trying to find other guys and not wear her wedding ring. She would tell me that she had been with another guy but I was not allowed to discuss any of that since we were going through issues. My little brother fell really ill and almost died so I had to fly back home to see him. He means the world to me. Now we did file taxes together when we came back. I have one transaction in our joint account in march showing i sent her 700 to help with school

Anyway she filed for divorce two weeks back without telling me. In it she put down Sep 2014 as the date of separation to sabotage me. I want to know should I fight that in my divorce or just agree to it and explain to USCIS about what happened (we filed joint after that remember)

anyway i am just going through hell and I will keep asking questions along the way and I will really appreciate it if someone just helped me out with this.

One more question, since it will be a i75i waiver interview, do they call in the ex spouse into it/?

what do they do besides the interview?

Please help. If I was unclear ask me questions.

thank you

[NancyNguyen 1,658]

Based on her divorce, you has been seperating from beginning of green card. You should expect a rough and expensive process. You need to consult an experienced attorney.

By the way, they did call ex spouse to check your input, on phone or in person.

[Villanelle 4,122]

Well- what date do you believe your marriage terminated on? Im not asking the date the divorce was filed- but the date you two stopped being man and wife?

Because the only dates in your posting are- the marriage date- Apr '14 and then a reference to the interview in Sept '14 where you went jointly (although marriage was rocky it was still together) You then become vague and say soon after issue began of infidelity rumors and you left the country but dont provide a date when you left or returned. So maybe if you fill in some blanks here--

Date you believe marriage ended?

Date you left-

Date you returned-

When you returned did you return to the marital home?

It would give a more complete picture and get you better advice.

together when we came back.

Also is this a typo? We came back? Did she go with you or did you go alone?

Edited June 22, 2015 by Damara

[Ineedhelp1 0]

Well- what date do you believe your marriage terminated on? Im not asking the date the divorce was filed- but the date you two stopped being man and wife?

Because the only dates in your posting are- the marriage date- Apr '14 and then a reference to the interview in Sept '14 where you went jointly (although marriage was rocky it was still together) You then become vague and say soon after issue began of infidelity rumors and you left the country but dont provide a date when you left or returned. So maybe if you fill in some blanks here--

Date you believe marriage ended?

Date you left-

Date you returned-

When you returned did you return to the marital home?

It would give a more complete picture and get you better advice.

Also is this a typo? We came back? Did she go with you or did you go alone?

The marriage had its ups and downs one day she d tell me we could work things out and the other day shed call and shout at me and stuff. I had an old neighbor lady whose like a mom to me and she was kinda advicing me on the relationship and she told me that my spouse needed time away and that when she had had time to think things through she would come back home to me. sigh never happened What I am trying to say is that I dont know when it ended I was too big of a loser to ever lose hope. She liked to keep me hanging and to torture me.

I left for winter vacations like middle of December and came back first week of january.

The marital home was my apt we are both on the lease and I pay the bills since she is still in school so yea I returned there

Yes its a typo. sorry

She contacted me this year to fight about some new issue that I have forgotten about now. and also she wanted us to file taxes and because of her bullshit I ended up owing taxes to two different states. Once she was done with that she cut me off again. I think i knew then that it was over. She just wanted me for money

[Ineedhelp1 0]

She had to get an apt cus my job is in a different city than where we went to school at. So she moved into an apt close to school at October. I still stayed a good husband we were going through rough financial times I paid off macys bills when I could and I also tried helping her out with school whenever I could

[Villanelle 4,122]

Hmm..

Well- thank you for the additional information. I would very much like to help you but I am still very unclear about things and am trying to piece together a timeline. This is how it looks so far-

Married April '14

GC issued Sept '14

Mrs moved from joint home to separate apartment because of school Oct '14 (correct year?) (apt seems to be in different state)

Mr left to overseas because of brother illness/vacation late Dec '14 through mid Jan 15

Mr returned home to 'joint home' although he lived there alone.

April '15 Mr and Mrs file joint taxes together (interested in knowing how you did this- where did you list primary home as? her apt or your 'joint home?' since you owed in two states- which address was on the federal return?)

June '15 Mrs files for divorce and states date of separation was back in Sept '14 - probably right before she moved out.

Is anything on this list above incorrect? If so please change it to get better advice on how to proceed.

-A court might agree with her as that is the date of separation as she does have an apartment lease in her name only showing she lived apart from you.

-and you dont know what date you think the separation occurred if you had to contest it and request it to be changed on the divorce papers. Like youre saying you know it wasnt Sept '14 but if you dont know what date it was, just that it wasnt that. You do realize you have to come up with an alternative date if you are disputing that date right?

(as a side note Im going to ask for your topic to be moved to another sub section as its a bit complex and you'll get more responses elsewhere) But if your dates are as they appear in the timeline I mocked out above with her moving out less then a month after the GC was issued and insisting on a divorce with that as the separation date--- well- lets wait and see if you make changes to the timeline.

Please be accurate and add in any other pertinent information.

[Pitaya 2,577]

~Moved from ROC to Effects of Major Family Changes on Immigration Benefits Forum~

~Similar topics are often discussed at this forum~

[Ineedhelp1 0]

Hmm..

Well- thank you for the additional information. I would very much like to help you but I am still very unclear about things and am trying to piece together a timeline. This is how it looks so far-

Married April '14

GC issued Sept '14

Mrs moved from joint home to separate apartment because of school Oct '14 (correct year?) (apt seems to be in different state)

Mr left to overseas because of brother illness/vacation late Dec '14 through mid Jan 15

Mr returned home to 'joint home' although he lived there alone.

April '15 Mr and Mrs file joint taxes together (interested in knowing how you did this- where did you list primary home as? her apt or your 'joint home?' since you owed in two states- which address was on the federal return?)

June '15 Mrs files for divorce and states date of separation was back in Sept '14 - probably right before she moved out.

Is anything on this list above incorrect? If so please change it to get better advice on how to proceed.

-A court might agree with her as that is the date of separation as she does have an apartment lease in her name only showing she lived apart from you.

-and you dont know what date you think the separation occurred if you had to contest it and request it to be changed on the divorce papers. Like youre saying you know it wasnt Sept '14 but if you dont know what date it was, just that it wasnt that. You do realize you have to come up with an alternative date if you are disputing that date right?

(as a side note Im going to ask for your topic to be moved to another sub section as its a bit complex and you'll get more responses elsewhere) But if your dates are as they appear in the timeline I mocked out above with her moving out less then a month after the GC was issued and insisting on a divorce with that as the separation date--- well- lets wait and see if you make changes to the timeline.

Please be accurate and add in any other pertinent information.

Everything is accurate except that she stayed in the same state but a different city where we both initially went to school and had met each other. I had to pay taxes for another state for her because she had worked there over the summer.

We filed taxes together and she was the one who wanted to i guess because taxes means money and she loves money.

My apt was listed as the primary address on it. See what I mean though? I always had a hope that she would come back

[Villanelle 4,122]

Okay- then since that is the timeline---

regarding the divorce; if you are disputing the date of seperation and do not agree it was in Sept '14 then as stated you need to come up with a date that you believe the marriage ended. If you two can not agree on a date then a judge will hear evidence from both of you on why you each believe your date is the correct date and make a ruling. Her evidence will most likely be proof that she moved out around that time. Your evidence will be that you filed taxes jointly and (???) I do not know what the Judge will decide but evidence that one has moved out is pretty strong evidence so you should prepare that the date of separation may stand at Sept '14/ or Oct '14/

For your ROC (751- removal of conditions)

Yes you are correct, you do have to file with the divorce waiver. You need to file when your window opens (90 days before your card expires) OR when you get the final divorce decree. Its your choice when to file. But you must file before the card expires.

You are going to have problems because of your timeline. Theres no way around it. You had a very short marriage. If the divorce shows you seperated right after your GC was issued- it can appear to USCIS that you only married for the GC and you will have to overcome that burden. Its very hard. You will need lots of evidence. This can include proof of the time you spent with your spouse prior to the seperation- joint bills, personal evidence etc. Pretty much the same things you used to get approved in the first place.

You most likely will be called in for an interview and they will judge you based on your responses. Hopefully your ex does not send any negative info to USCIS about you or the marriage but I dont know as you stated she chose that date 'to make trouble for you' so it sounds like she may be vengeful. It could be suggested if you have any evidence of why she would be vengeful to bring that with you as well.

For example if the marriage failed because of infidelity to bring that with you as well. If you can get a statement from the helpful neighbor woman stating you were sincere in your efforts to keep the marriage going that can be useful. Statements from people showing this was personal failings between you two and had nothing to do with anything immigration based. This was just a bad match.

Remember USCIS doesnt care if it was a good marriage or a bad marriage. They dont care if you were happy or not. They just care if it was legitimate. And sometimes legitimate means bad and unhappy and a mistake by two people that werent ready. Illegitimate means two people that purposely ran a scam and signed papers specifically so one can get a GC.

So try not to focus on finding things that make you look good or the marriage look good. Just look for things that are "real". Sometimes the real truth is ugly and thats okay.

Your best odds at getting approved is being as real as you can and exposing all the ugliness you can even if it hurts and you look like a fool. Because maybe you were a fool but you werent a scammer and thats all you need to show to be approved.

[Ineedhelp1 0]

I have decided to not contest the separation date and I sent in my divorce response today. I wanna start by thanking you for taking the time to help other people out.

I have a lot of evidence from the time of marriage. Marriage photos, ican get more affidavits from witnesses and friends, I have the lease from my apt. I have the tax papers and I have pictures of us from school and from a chicago trip we took last december where I proposed to her on January 1st

I tried using wifi temporary numbers to text her to make things better when she had my number blocked. Do I take screenshots of that where I was begging her to save our marriage while she didnt care? Or does that make me look like a very bitter person at the interview.

Another thing that scares me about is that she is volatile and unstable so if I start showing proof of her infidelity and immigration calls her and she starts saying bad stuff about me to get me into trouble.

So they will call her in for the interview too or phone her?

Also I dont have her new number

Lol and if there is one word that sums my role in this marriage up well is 'fool

Also my work is willing to prepare to file a work visa in case of a denial (worst case scenario)

I dont know if my work situation strengthens my case. I am young I make a good amount of money and have an important job at a car manufacturing company and pay taxes and stuff

I will keep everyone updated regarding my questions and also in case I have questions.

Anyone who has gone through a similar situation knows how important your support is to me. Even emotionally it is nice to know that people are willing to help me out.

thank you again

[Villanelle 4,122]

Well here is a thread with a somewhat similar situation- http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/554201-spend-less-than-a-month-with-wife-and-things-went-bad/page-2

The replies are very blunt. Its sort of similar but its not. You appear to have more evidence of the marriage since you lived together jointly and it was only after the GC was issued that she moved out. Where as in that thread the Mr lived overseas and upon arrival only lived joint with the Mrs for less then a month before separating. You also seem to have concrete evidence like the lease and bills and personal evidence where Mr in that thread has none. But some of the sentiments are the same.

The bulk of your evidence is going to be the things you see in the ROC threads like the finacial co-mingling that spanned the entire relationship/marriage. Joint leases, bank statements, bills, etc. Showing you paid for her taxes is a big +. SInce you say she likes money you probably have a lot of charges for things for her. This will be very helpful. If you can find purchases from stores that are 'womens stores' or purchases that you can attribute to home purchases and highlight them on your credit card or bank card statement this is also helpful.

I say this because not everybody has the actual receipts anymore but charges from Victoria Secret or her University on your bank statement are clearly her benefit. Where as a supermarket charge could be yours alone. A Furniture store purchase or a large purchase at Walmart of Best Buy could be highlighted and referred to as items for the joint home- only if you are sure that was when you laid out 800 bucks for new linens and rugs or redid the bathroom or bedroom.

You can and should include a letter with your ROC explaining things and refer to the fact that the date in the divorce is the date she took on a separate apt for school, so you jointly decided to use that date as the date of separation- although you continued to work on the marriage to no avail and show your evidence of such- text messages and the affs from people that know you and know this to be true.

Will they contact her? This is the most popular question asked during a ROC divorce case. Theres no simple answer. I can tell you anyone that you send in an aff from they have the right to confirm the info on and question. Any evidence you send in they can verify. SO by you sending in a text message to her- they can say, well we needed to verify it so you opened the door to us speaking to her. By not sending in any mention of her- you have no case. So its a catch 22.

If she sends in negative information on her own- its up to them what they do with it and how they apply it. I do not know if she is motivated to send in anything against you, nor if they will feel the need to speak to her. Some people do report having their ex's questioned, others do not. Some people want their ex's questioned and they are ignored, others dont and they are. So go figure. Its out of your control so please do not worry about it. Do what you can on your end and let the chips fall where they will. Just remember they do take into account the source of the information (bitter ex/tainted info) and rarely do we see on the forums decisions being reported that go against the letter of the law. Most are just and fair.

You have a potential work visa available so you are in a good position future wise.

And

[Sandra G. 5,057]

You MUST prove bonafide marriage.Evidences to prove bonafide marriage includes joint bank accounts,insurance policies in which you or your spouse is named as the beneficiary,evidence of joint ownership of property(home,car ,etc,)or lease agreement ,tax return filed jointly,affidavits from friends and family who can provide specific information verifying your relationship with your spouse,without these documents USCIS probably will not renew your GC,period. Not contesting the separation date was a big mistake. USCIS will not take in consideration what you have to say about the separation date. The Divorce proceeding is conducted under oath. The Service will take the Divorce decree in consideration.

I am posting here two BIA decisions regarding bonafide marriage.

"Where there is reason to doubt the validity of the marital relationship, the petitioner must present evidence to show that the marriage was not entered into for the purpose of evading the immigration laws. Such evidence could take many forms, including, but not limited to, proof that the beneficiary has been listed as the petitioner's spouse on insurance policies, property leases, income tax forms, or bank accounts, and testimony or other evidence regarding courtship, wedding ceremony, shared residence, and insurance policies."

Matter of Soriano-A-27259'736 Decided by Board October 5, 1988

"Evidence to establish intent could take many forms, including, but not limited to, proof that the beneficiary has been listed as the petitioner's spouse on insurance policies, property leases, income tax forms, or bank accounts, and testimony or other evidence regarding courtship, wedding ceremony, shared residence, and experiences together. Matter of Phillis, 15 I&N Dec. 385 (BIA 1975)

Edited June 24, 2015 by sandranj

[Villanelle 4,122]

Lol I just told someone else they were fortunate that Sandra took time to read and offer advice on their post and it seems needhelp that you are just as fortunate too.

Sandra is never wrong. Never. So please take her words very seriously.She is recommending you contest the date and compile strong proof of bonafide marriage and provided you some examples.

My suggestion of include a letter about why the separation date is what it is- well you can include it but she is blankly telling you its going to mean crud.

I mean I guess a letter of explanation is better then saying nothing but still crud is crud so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You are kind of in a rock and hard place with that one because you can dispute the date and it may still stand.

I am interested in asking her if she returns to the thread specifically what she thinks of- If the date is contested from Sept '14 to a later on and he loses meaning the Judge finds the date of separation to be Sept '14 because she has proof she moved out back then. What does USCIS think of that? Meaning he gets no credit for a cruddy letter but do they take into account he attempted to contest it and lost?? Or is it just the final result that he lost that is going to matter?

(I am assuming it is the attempt to fight that will matter but I dont have any reference for this besides common sense and we all know that doesnt always make something policy lol)

[Ineedhelp1 0]

Lol I just told someone else they were fortunate that Sandra took time to read and offer advice on their post and it seems needhelp that you are just as fortunate too.

Sandra is never wrong. Never. So please take her words very seriously.She is recommending you contest the date and compile strong proof of bonafide marriage and provided you some examples.

My suggestion of include a letter about why the separation date is what it is- well you can include it but she is blankly telling you its going to mean crud.

I mean I guess a letter of explanation is better then saying nothing but still crud is crud so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You are kind of in a rock and hard place with that one because you can dispute the date and it may still stand.

I am interested in asking her if she returns to the thread specifically what she thinks of- If the date is contested from Sept '14 to a later on and he loses meaning the Judge finds the date of separation to be Sept '14 because she has proof she moved out back then. What does USCIS think of that? Meaning he gets no credit for a cruddy letter but do they take into account he attempted to contest it and lost?? Or is it just the final result that he lost that is going to matter?

(I am assuming it is the attempt to fight that will matter but I dont have any reference for this besides common sense and we all know that doesnt always make something policy lol)

I have set the divorce response back already and I did not contest the date on it so I guess there is no use worrying about it since that is done and over.

. SO by you sending in a text message to her- they can say, well we needed to verify it so you opened the door to us speaking to her. By not sending in an y mention of her- you have no case.

I dont quite understand what you mean with that. If you mean they will have her number through that then no she changed her number a long time back which also makes me worry that "oh so she apparently was texting you but now she switched numbers?" or maybe they wont since they did confirm her number in the original conditional interview

Also you are right I will explain everything in the interview.

As for Sandra's reply I will go through our old stuff and make a detailed list of the documents i have and the proof I have.

Thanks Again guys

[Villanelle 4,122]

I have set the divorce response back already and I did not contest the date on it so I guess there is no use worrying about it since that is done and over.

. SO by you sending in a text message to her- they can say, well we needed to verify it so you opened the door to us speaking to her. By not sending in an y mention of her- you have no case.

I dont quite understand what you mean with that. If you mean they will have her number through that then no she changed her number a long time back which also makes me worry that "oh so she apparently was texting you but now she switched numbers?" or maybe they wont since they did confirm her number in the original conditional interview

Also you are right I will explain everything in the interview.

As for Sandra's reply I will go through our old stuff and make a detailed list of the documents i have and the proof I have.

Thanks Again guys

Bah. So what if you sent the divorce back already. Its not too late. Do you have a lawyer? Im guessing no. I dont know if you are planning on getting one or not but I do know that things can be changed. Just because you didnt contest something right away doesnt mean its over- finished- period. Not until the ink is dry is it really over.

Divorces are slow and go through several rounds so if this was just the first round where you were served theres still a few more back and forth approvals where you can have time to make changes. You can look into it. But again this is your decision to make. If you are fine with leaving the date alone then leave it. Sandra is an attny. She has quoted the law for you and explained (this is my paraphrasing here) that was is stated in the divorce USCIS is going to view as fact because you agreed to it under oath so its going to hold weight and nothing you say in a subsequent interview or letter is going to offset that. So if you are fine with that- then okay; moving on/

As for this:

I dont quite understand what you mean with that. If you mean they will have her number through that then no she changed her number a long time back which also makes me worry that "oh so she apparently was texting you but now she switched numbers?" or maybe they wont since they did confirm her number in the original conditional interview

Umm we are talking about the government. They can find anyone they want regardless of whether or not you provide them with their current phone number. Will they choose to contact your spouse? I dont know. Do they have the means to? Of course.They have every resource of the federal government at their disposal. Even if you dont provide them with any info on her current whereabouts they will find her if they want her.

I was talking about policy and procedure. USCIS is bound by certain rules. Id be lying if I said I knew 1/10th of every one of them. But I do know they are allowed to verify information you provide them.

So I personally dont think you should NOT send in information that could potentially help you because you think- oh they may contact her if I send this. They have the right to contact her based on the other joint documents you are sending in like the lease and bills. If it will help you send it.

People switch numbers all the time for various reasons. I think you are overthinking it if you are worried they are going to ?? attribute a switch in phone numbers as a negative in the bonafides of the marriage? I mean did she switch from a family plan to a single plan in her name only during the marriage? Im talking prior to the date on the divorce papers/before the conditional card was issued- because that can be an issue. If you all were separating assets and bills even before the GC was issued then you are pretty much sunk and should just pursue the work visa path because youd just be wasting time and filing fees.