Race policies at universities questioned

[Heracles 417]

Actually that is a good point. Does a poor white kid in the US have the same privileges as a poor black kid?? heck no..

You don't live where I do. I don't see too many privileged black folks around my neighbourhood...

I am not saying screw them I am just saying anyone poor should be assisted rather than, as per the current affirmative action system, only 1 race and 1 color of skin is helped out.. My suggestion is that irrespective of one's race, color whatever, affirmative actions should equally apply to all under privileged people.. Now that is a system which looks out for the underdog..

PS I live in Northern Virgina. DC has a large number of poor black folks. I have no sympathy for them because they are simply to stubborn to relocate to places with better job prospects.. Almost like a chip on their shoulder.. If a freakin illegal immigrant can make it with nothing, sorry they have no excuse..

Edited February 19, 2007 by Infidel

[Fandango 1,439]

Now you're getting a little melodramatic. I wonder if we can admit that there is a general correlation between race and low income, but that's obviously not to say that the only people who are poor are black or hispanic.

Do you wear a cup when you straddle that fence????

[DeadPoolX 9]

Where did you get that? I'm pointing out that inequalities continue to exist with regard to women and minorities. Equality doesn't mean equal treatment. For example (hopefully Lisa won't get unhinged on this one again) a wheelchair bound person and I are equal in the eyes of the law, but that doesn't mean that whatever works for me in terms of access to buildings, should work for them as well. Building a ramp for them isn't preferential treatment. It may be different from the way I'm treated, but the end result is that both of us now have equal access to the building.

Someone in a wheelchair is crippled. They have no choice but to be in the wheelchair; if there was any way they could work at getting out of the wheelchair effectively, you can bet your bottom dollar they would. I don't know of a single person who is wheelchair-bound and enjoys it or hasn't worked towards getting out of the wheelchair, when possible.

I was in a wheelchair years ago for a little while, when I was much younger. I got pneumonia and because I have asthma, it hit me really hard. Naturally, we were on a trip to Disneyland at the time. So my parents wheeled me around the theme park. The one "good point" about being in a wheelchair was that I got to "jump the line" and go on the rides pretty much right away. Still, I hated being in that thing. With the exception of being wheeled out of a hospital, I've never sat in a wheelchair since.

Anyway...my point is that being crippled is something no one can do anything about (at least right now). It's not like lacking knowledge, in which you can better educate yourself by going to a university or at the very least, taking classes at your local community college. Furthermore, your example, Steve, isn't a very good one. A ramp built for a crippled person in a wheelchair can still be used by a healthy individual who can walk; I can't use Affirmative Action, no matter how hard I try, despite the fact I am a member of the minority (I'm Jewish).

Actually that is a good point. Does a poor white kid in the US have the same privileges as a poor black kid?? heck no..

I remember speaking to a university admissions officer here about financial aid and they told me to my face that to get the best federal aid deal in college you need to be a single black mother with a child..

I was one told that in order to get the best deal you need to be a "single black mother with an hispanic surname."

I've seen some pretty wacky scholarships in my time. Probably the most ridiculous was the "Tall Texans Scholarship" in which you could get money for college just by being taller than average. Now really...what does height have to do with your intelligence or how well you do in school and life in general? Nothing! Sure, it's handy if you're on the basketball team, but otherwise, it's not really of that much use to universities, so where the hell did that scholarship come into play?

[Fandango 1,439]

I missed what Steve said when he compared certain races to being handicapped.

And that's the most racist statement of this whole thread.

You've used this analogy before, Steven...and your flaw comes in the fact that a handicapped person cannot climb stairs, it is a physical impossibility. Yet that's the way you view miorities in college? Without a handout they're incapable?

Really sad racism tied around a liberal-I'm-such-an-empathizing-human-being-cos-I-care-about-those-poor-black-folk-who-can't-help-themselves mentality.

Edited February 19, 2007 by LisaD

[Heracles 417]

I am all for an affirmative action style system for all underprivileged people.

[Anna C. 4]

I don't want a job just because I am a woman, that doesn't make me happy because I got it out of charity. I want a job because I worked hard and was the best possible applicant.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I am all for an affirmative action style system for all underprivileged people.

I'm for affirmative action for untermenschen. I'm REALLY trying to be more liberal.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I am all for an affirmative action style system for all underprivileged people.

I'm for affirmative action for untermenschen. I'm REALLY trying to be more liberal.

What's your definition of an "untermensch"? It's a term that was widely used by the Nazi's to describe what they saw as the non-nordic, non-germanic, sub-human inferior types. Personally, I find the term disturbing.

Nazis believed that Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, Altaic peoples or Africans, and asocial element, as well as the mentally or physically disabled, homosexuals, criminals, prostitutes, beggars, tramps, liberals, political dissidents, Jehovah's Witnesses and so-called morally degenerates were subhuman.

Untermensch Edited February 19, 2007 by ET-US2004

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I am all for an affirmative action style system for all underprivileged people.

I'm for affirmative action for untermenschen. I'm REALLY trying to be more liberal.

What's your definition of an "untermensch"? It's a term that was widely used by the Nazi's to describe what they saw as the non-nordic, non-germanic, sub-human inferior types. Personally, I find the term disturbing.

Nazis believed that Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, Altaic peoples or Africans, and asocial element, as well as the mentally or physically disabled, homosexuals, criminals, prostitutes, beggars, tramps, liberals, political dissidents, Jehovah's Witnesses and so-called morally degenerates were subhuman.

Untermensch

That's the way liberals see people too. I believe all people should treated equally but I'm trying to be more liberal. Affirmative action believes some people are better than others.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I am all for an affirmative action style system for all underprivileged people.

I'm for affirmative action for untermenschen. I'm REALLY trying to be more liberal.

What's your definition of an "untermensch"? It's a term that was widely used by the Nazi's to describe what they saw as the non-nordic, non-germanic, sub-human inferior types. Personally, I find the term disturbing.

Nazis believed that Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, Altaic peoples or Africans, and asocial element, as well as the mentally or physically disabled, homosexuals, criminals, prostitutes, beggars, tramps, liberals, political dissidents, Jehovah's Witnesses and so-called morally degenerates were subhuman.

Untermensch

That's the way liberals see people too. I believe all people should treated equally but I'm trying to be more liberal. Affirmative action believes some people are better than others.

Equality of people would be a great thing if we could ever achieve it. You and I both know that we're not all equal in this or any country. To pretend otherwise is living in a dream world. Imagine...

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

When they eliminated race from the admissions criteria in the University of California system the main beneficiaries were not white people. All the white people with good but not amazing grades/SAT scores who claimed they lost their place to a black applicant discovered that without affirmative action, they were now more likely to lose their place to an Asian

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Actually that is a good point. Does a poor white kid in the US have the same privileges as a poor black kid?? heck no..

You don't live where I do. I don't see too many privileged black folks around my neighbourhood...

I am not saying screw them I am just saying anyone poor should be assisted rather than, as per the current affirmative action system, only 1 race and 1 color of skin is helped out.. My suggestion is that irrespective of one's race, color whatever, affirmative actions should equally apply to all under privileged people.. Now that is a system which looks out for the underdog..

Who says it doesn't, or that race is the primary determining factor in college admissions?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Now you're getting a little melodramatic. I wonder if we can admit that there is a general correlation between race and low income, but that's obviously not to say that the only people who are poor are black or hispanic.

Do you wear a cup when you straddle that fence????

As someone mentioned (I think in the last thread in which this topic was discussed) - what happened to the conversational implicature. I just wonder why just because I mentioned the correlation between race and socio-economic group the automatic assumption is that I believe that "poor white people" should be left twisting in the wind. I don't believe that, nor do I believe in Affirmative Action. The back and forth in these debates has this overwhelming tendency to deal in stereotypes and generalities.

You seem convinced that the college admissions process at large panders to racial minorities from poor backgrounds. I'm pointing out that the reality is a little more complicated. Has anyone really established the preponderance of Affirmative Action in making these decisions? It is, after all, already illegal in a number of states.

Edited February 19, 2007 by erekose

[pedroh 21]

It's not four generations though, nor about slavery. We're talking about changes that happened within my parents' lifetimes. When my mother was born, my university was single-sex. Schools were segregated, and black soldiers were excluded from the G.I. bill. It's not about addressing ancient wrongs, but ones about 40 years old.

Yes and the country has come a long way from that. In the end people who still hold on to that are only segregating and isolating themselves.. I have never ever heard of any psychologist or motivational speaker say dwell on the past. People need to learn from it an move on..

Based on the OP, why should I be discriminated against be affirmative action. Colleges are a place of equality and students should be selected based on their merits rather than the color of their skin, as is under the current affirmative action..

LMAO... :lol: :lol:

no.. generational poverty is still haunting families, same as racism..

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Where did you get that? I'm pointing out that inequalities continue to exist with regard to women and minorities. Equality doesn't mean equal treatment. For example (hopefully Lisa won't get unhinged on this one again) a wheelchair bound person and I are equal in the eyes of the law, but that doesn't mean that whatever works for me in terms of access to buildings, should work for them as well. Building a ramp for them isn't preferential treatment. It may be different from the way I'm treated, but the end result is that both of us now have equal access to the building.

Someone in a wheelchair is crippled. They have no choice but to be in the wheelchair; if there was any way they could work at getting out of the wheelchair effectively, you can bet your bottom dollar they would. I don't know of a single person who is wheelchair-bound and enjoys it or hasn't worked towards getting out of the wheelchair, when possible.

I was in a wheelchair years ago for a little while, when I was much younger. I got pneumonia and because I have asthma, it hit me really hard. Naturally, we were on a trip to Disneyland at the time. So my parents wheeled me around the theme park. The one "good point" about being in a wheelchair was that I got to "jump the line" and go on the rides pretty much right away. Still, I hated being in that thing. With the exception of being wheeled out of a hospital, I've never sat in a wheelchair since.

Anyway...my point is that being crippled is something no one can do anything about (at least right now). It's not like lacking knowledge, in which you can better educate yourself by going to a university or at the very least, taking classes at your local community college. Furthermore, your example, Steve, isn't a very good one. A ramp built for a crippled person in a wheelchair can still be used by a healthy individual who can walk; I can't use Affirmative Action, no matter how hard I try, despite the fact I am a member of the minority (I'm Jewish).

Your missing the point entirely. First, I'm not comparing a wheelchair bound person to a minority. I used an example of equality in the eyes of the law that doesn't translate into equal treatment. If you want to argue that point then go ahead. Let me ask you this - do you believe that equality means everyone should be treated exactly the same?

I missed what Steve said when he compared certain races to being handicapped.

And that's the most racist statement of this whole thread.

You've used this analogy before, Steven...and your flaw comes in the fact that a handicapped person cannot climb stairs, it is a physical impossibility. Yet that's the way you view miorities in college? Without a handout they're incapable?

Really sad racism tied around a liberal-I'm-such-an-empathizing-human-being-cos-I-care-about-those-poor-black-folk-who-can't-help-themselves mentality.

Lisa, don't be stupid. I didn't make the comparison. Go back and read it carefully.