Race policies at universities questioned

[DeadPoolX 9]

Excellent point.

The Supreme Court ruled in favor of Affirmative Action provided that it doesn't use quotas with regard to race. However, diversity can be considering factor with regard to university and college admissions.

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/michigan/

Kind of makes it silly for this organization to try and circumvent the Supreme Court's ruling.

How I read that article is that the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Affirmative Action in regards to the University of Michigan's Law School, but turned down Affirmative Action in undergraduate admissions. In other words, AA can be used for that law school and law school only; the University of Michigan's undergraduate section still cannot use AA.

I don't see anywhere in the article where it talks about other universities or law schools or graduate schools or medical schools or whatever. So as far as I can tell, this article only speaks about one instance of Affirmative Action.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

For one, this organization spokesperson says that residents of Arizona asked them to come and check on things? *cough* BS. If this organization's sole purpose is fight Affirmative Action, why don't they challenge it's constitutionality by taking it to the courts?

Secondly, with regard to diversity - whether it's in colleges and universities or in the workplace, should be a factor. Inequalities still persist and exist within this country against both women and minorities. Wouldn't it be more productive for this group (American Civil Rights Coalition) to fight such inequalities where they exist instead? What a backwards way of thinking.

Equality for all is backwards?

[Fandango 1,439]

For one, this organization spokesperson says that residents of Arizona asked them to come and check on things? *cough* BS. If this organization's sole purpose is fight Affirmative Action, why don't they challenge it's constitutionality by taking it to the courts?

Secondly, with regard to diversity - whether it's in colleges and universities or in the workplace, should be a factor. Inequalities still persist and exist within this country against both women and minorities. Wouldn't it be more productive for this group (American Civil Rights Coalition) to fight such inequalities where they exist instead? What a backwards way of thinking.

Equality for all is backwards?

Well, SOMETHING is backwards here

[Heracles 417]

Affirmitive action is race discrimination by another name. Everything should be race and gender neuteral. That is the only way to be fair to everyone.

Exactly..

I think certain so-called minority groups are using this reverse racism, as I call it, to their advantage.. As long as they can keep Caucasian people in this guilty mindset about something 4 generations ago did, they can continue to get their way. As I rolled someone a while back, I am Aussie and we are a real bloody minority here. Do I get affirmative action protection. You should have seen the person go off tap at me..

Edited February 19, 2007 by Infidel

[one...two...tree 2,762]

For one, this organization spokesperson says that residents of Arizona asked them to come and check on things? *cough* BS. If this organization's sole purpose is fight Affirmative Action, why don't they challenge it's constitutionality by taking it to the courts?

Secondly, with regard to diversity - whether it's in colleges and universities or in the workplace, should be a factor. Inequalities still persist and exist within this country against both women and minorities. Wouldn't it be more productive for this group (American Civil Rights Coalition) to fight such inequalities where they exist instead? What a backwards way of thinking.

Equality for all is backwards?

Where did you get that? I'm pointing out that inequalities continue to exist with regard to women and minorities. Equality doesn't mean equal treatment. For example (hopefully Lisa won't get unhinged on this one again) a wheelchair bound person and I are equal in the eyes of the law, but that doesn't mean that whatever works for me in terms of access to buildings, should work for them as well. Building a ramp for them isn't preferential treatment. It may be different from the way I'm treated, but the end result is that both of us now have equal access to the building.

[Fandango 1,439]

Affirmitive action is race discrimination by another name. Everything should be race and gender neuteral. That is the only way to be fair to everyone.

Exactly..

I think certain so-called minority groups are using this reverse racism, as I call it, to their advantage.. As long as they can keep Caucasian people in this guilty mindset about something 4 generations ago did, they can continue to get their way. As I rolled someone a while back, I am Aussie and we are a real bloody minority here. Do I get affirmative action protection. You should have seen the person go off tap at me..

I don't call it 'reverse' racism....and the only reason I bring this up is cos it's a huge peeve of mine.....it's racism, plain and simple. Nothing 'reverse' about it cos that's implying that 'racism' itself is not possible against white people...which is so not true

[Caladan 19]

It's not four generations though, nor about slavery. We're talking about changes that happened within my parents' lifetimes. When my mother was born, my university was single-sex. Schools were segregated, and black soldiers were excluded from the G.I. bill. It's not about addressing ancient wrongs, but ones about 40 years old.

[Fandango 1,439]

Getting accepted to something based on something other than your own merits is a cop out, and is charity. And to fully empower someone, you shouldn't 'make exceptions' because of it.

[Heracles 417]

It's not four generations though, nor about slavery. We're talking about changes that happened within my parents' lifetimes. When my mother was born, my university was single-sex. Schools were segregated, and black soldiers were excluded from the G.I. bill. It's not about addressing ancient wrongs, but ones about 40 years old.

Yes and the country has come a long way from that. In the end people who still hold on to that are only segregating and isolating themselves.. I have never ever heard of any psychologist or motivational speaker say dwell on the past. People need to learn from it an move on..

Based on the OP, why should I be discriminated against be affirmative action. Colleges are a place of equality and students should be selected based on their merits rather than the color of their skin, as is under the current affirmative action..

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Doesn't this problem start way before college?

I wonder if anyone with kids can elaborate on the relative difficulty (and high competitiveness) of getting your child into a "good" elementary or high school... After all, its pre-college schooling which directly affects your chances of getting into any college (let alone a good one).

The problem is a racial one by way of socio-economic class. Lets not pretend that these terms are separate and interchangeable - they are not. As suggested above, the perception of equality doesn't equate to equal treatment. Nor do High School exam results automatically translate into future success.

[Fandango 1,439]

Doesn't this problem start way before college?

I wonder if anyone with kids can elaborate on the relative difficulty (and high competitiveness) of getting your child into a "good" elementary or high school... After all, its pre-college schooling which directly affects your chances of getting into any college (let alone a good one).

The problem is a racial one by way of socio-economic class. Lets not pretend that these terms are separate and interchangeable - they are not. As suggested above, the perception of equality doesn't equate to equal treatment. Nor do High School exam results automatically translate into future success.

right so screw the poor white people who don't have hope of getting into a 'good' elementary school...no one gives a toss about them.

There's definitely an economic disparity...and that either affects people across the board, or it doesn't. And even then...there's many a people who have broken down that barrier by applying themselves and making their own. Parental involvement in an active school career is vital. Imagine that...parental responsibility! Crazy concept, I know

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Doesn't this problem start way before college?

I wonder if anyone with kids can elaborate on the relative difficulty (and high competitiveness) of getting your child into a "good" elementary or high school... After all, its pre-college schooling which directly affects your chances of getting into any college (let alone a good one).

The problem is a racial one by way of socio-economic class. Lets not pretend that these terms are separate and interchangeable - they are not. As suggested above, the perception of equality doesn't equate to equal treatment. Nor do High School exam results automatically translate into future success.

right so screw the poor white people who don't have hope of getting into a 'good' elementary school...no one gives a toss about them.

Now you're getting a little melodramatic. I wonder if we can admit that there is a general correlation between race and low income, but that's obviously not to say that the only people who are poor are black or hispanic.

I believe there was a thread on this very issue once before - and a VJer who was, or who had been, an admissions counsellor explained that quite a few factors are considered when determining whether or not to award a college place. In fact, aren't the Arizona officials in the OP article actually saying that "the investigators won't find what they're looking for"?

Edited February 19, 2007 by erekose

[Heracles 417]

Actually that is a good point. Does a poor white kid in the US have the same privileges as a poor black kid?? heck no..

I remember speaking to a university admissions officer here about financial aid and they told me to my face that to get the best federal aid deal in college you need to be a single black mother with a child..

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Actually that is a good point. Does a poor white kid in the US have the same privileges as a poor black kid?? heck no..

You don't live where I do. I don't see too many privileged black folks around my neighbourhood...

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Affirmitive action is race discrimination by another name. Everything should be race and gender neuteral. That is the only way to be fair to everyone.

Exactly..

I think certain so-called minority groups are using this reverse racism, as I call it, to their advantage.. As long as they can keep Caucasian people in this guilty mindset about something 4 generations ago did, they can continue to get their way. As I rolled someone a while back, I am Aussie and we are a real bloody minority here. Do I get affirmative action protection. You should have seen the person go off tap at me..

I don't call it 'reverse' racism....and the only reason I bring this up is cos it's a huge peeve of mine.....it's racism, plain and simple. Nothing 'reverse' about it cos that's implying that 'racism' itself is not possible against white people...which is so not true

Adding 'reverse' attempts to give people the impression that it's not racism. When, in fact, it is.