Guns in America: For every criminal killed in self-defense, 34 innocent people die

[ready4ONE 5,400]

This is true. I have gotten cynical over the last few years and I realize that all the time and energy spent on rants do no good at all. It is entertaining watching some people get worked up over something that can't be changed. It's a little like being pissed because the sky is blue and taking to the net to b!tch about it.

Comic gold right there folks. It is possible that people will change their minds about having a gun in the home, much like cigarettes have taken a hit as people wised up to the dangers of smoking. Some people will never change of course.

Your empathy for gun violence victims appears to be lacking but of course it flies in the face of your cry for freedom.

[GaryC 7]

Comic gold right there folks. It is possible that people will change their minds about having a gun in the home, much like cigarettes have taken a hit as people wised up to the dangers of smoking. Some people will never change of course.

Your empathy for gun violence victims appears to be lacking but of course it flies in the face of your cry for freedom.

By all means then, rant away. If it makes you "feel better" and like you have "done something" then knock yourself out. I will be behind my computer screen laughing at you. It seems that for some empathy is a goal in itself.

ETA: Stop assigning opiions to me. Your last comment "Your empathy for gun violence victims appears to be lacking but of course it flies in the face of your cry for freedom." is a red herring. I didn't comment on anything but the futility of ranting about guns in America. Stick to what I said in your comments about me.

Edited June 20, 2015 by GaryC

[Expat1 971]

we are seeing that in Baltimore these days ... Police pull back and there is far less killings this month.... right ?

I have lots and lots of guns, all stored neatly away behind a 6-digit code. See someone else if the "fewer guns safer society" theories don't pan out.

Every single person on here, whether they believe in guns, or own guns, or hate people who own guns, expect someone with a gun to either protect them during commission of a crime or go capture the criminal who victimized them after a crime is committed. Men with guns guard our banks, men with guns guard our leaders, men with guns guard our communities, and those guns make those things and those people and those places safer.

Whether this founding father said this or that founding father said that, the courts have exhaustively studied the real words and real writings and have determined that the real intent behind the 2nd amendment is exactly what the NRA and other groups who represent gun rights for individuals say it is. Madison recorded it, Jefferson recorded it, and it will take a full, formal change to the Constitution to modify it.

It is asinine to expect someone with a gun to respond to an emergency or to deter a criminal act from one corner of one's mouth and from the other corner declare that a gun itself makes a person or a home less safe. Most gun owners, the vast majority, limit their use of their weapons in defense of their families or property to the boundaries of their own properties and the vast majority of the thousands of crimes that are deterred by a gun owner are deterred at and in these homes with no shot fired, a police report after the fact, and a runaway burglar with bacon strips in his shorts.

So a good question then is - what percentage of burglaries occur in occupied homes? A cool book got written on this.

RESIDENTIAL BURGLARY: How the Urban Environment and Our Lifestyles Play a Contributing Role (3rd Ed.)

Some stats, want the original source, they're in the book:

13% in the US

54% in Canada

59% in the UK

48% in the Netherlands

When interviewed, burglars in the US target unoccupied homes because they are afraid of a confrontation with an armed homeowner, burglars in other countries target occupied homes because the wallets and credit cards are there, alarms are turned off, and they can overpower the homeowners.

Go figure.

Guns and the fear of guns DO make 'Mericans safer, in their own homes, just like the "gun nuts" claim. This has been studied and analyzed as deeply as "what the did founding fathers mean when they penned the second amendment" and has proven out time and again.

Deal with that and when you deter a criminal by "making your home look occupied" while you're out you owe that deterrence to gun owners whether you own a gun or not.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Expat1

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I agree. (I also think we agree that what we are discussing shouldn't be a mandatory regulation btw.)

Gotcha.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

By all means then, rant away. If it makes you "feel better" and like you have "done something" then knock yourself out. I will be behind my computer screen laughing at you. It seems that for some empathy is a goal in itself.

ETA: Stop assigning opiions to me. Your last comment "Your empathy for gun violence victims appears to be lacking but of course it flies in the face of your cry for freedom." is a red herring. I didn't comment on anything but the futility of ranting about guns in America. Stick to what I said in your comments about me.

Ever noticed that you tend to post twice as much verbiage in response to what you refer to as rants?

I'm sure that it is futile with you, but I prefer to believe that one day many people who buy into the delusion guns make them safer will realize that it simply isn't true.

You freely assume and assign thoughts and beliefs to anyone not on the guns are great side so I don't think I am going to far, especially given the OP, in declaring that you lack empathy for the victims of gun violence.

[Boiler 45,531]

Ever noticed that you tend to post twice as much verbiage in response to what you refer to as rants?

I'm sure that it is futile with you, but I prefer to believe that one day many people who buy into the delusion guns make them safer will realize that it simply isn't true.

You freely assume and assign thoughts and beliefs to anyone not on the guns are great side so I don't think I am going to far, especially given the OP, in declaring that you lack empathy for the victims of gun violence.

Nobody is making you have a gun, if you do not want one fine,

Lots of people do not have guns, nobody is forcing you to have one,

[GaryC 7]

Ever noticed that you tend to post twice as much verbiage in response to what you refer to as rants?

I'm sure that it is futile with you, but I prefer to believe that one day many people who buy into the delusion guns make them safer will realize that it simply isn't true.

You freely assume and assign thoughts and beliefs to anyone not on the guns are great side so I don't think I am going to far, especially given the OP, in declaring that you lack empathy for the victims of gun violence.

I do? Where did I even allude to that? Again, I only commented on the futility of ranting about guns in America. You are confusing the topic of the law and the futility of endless posts about guns in America with discussing the virtues of some people believing that guns making them safer. I commented on one and have been silent on the other. You assume way too much. And yes, I do tend to get wordy, it's in my nature.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I have lots and lots of guns, all stored neatly away behind a 6-digit code. See someone else if the "fewer guns safer society" theories don't pan out.

Every single person on here, whether they believe in guns, or own guns, or hate people who own guns, expect someone with a gun to either protect them during commission of a crime or go capture the criminal who victimized them after a crime is committed. Men with guns guard our banks, men with guns guard our leaders, men with guns guard our communities, and those guns make those things and those people and those places safer.

Whether this founding father said this or that founding father said that, the courts have exhaustively studied the real words and real writings and have determined that the real intent behind the 2nd amendment is exactly what the NRA and other groups who represent gun rights for individuals say it is. Madison recorded it, Jefferson recorded it, and it will take a full, formal change to the Constitution to modify it.

It is asinine to expect someone with a gun to respond to an emergency or to deter a criminal act from one corner of one's mouth and from the other corner declare that a gun itself makes a person or a home less safe. Most gun owners, the vast majority, limit their use of their weapons in defense of their families or property to the boundaries of their own properties and the vast majority of the thousands of crimes that are deterred by a gun owner are deterred at and in these homes with no shot fired, a police report after the fact, and a runaway burglar with bacon strips in his shorts.

So a good question then is - what percentage of burglaries occur in occupied homes? A cool book got written on this.

RESIDENTIAL BURGLARY: How the Urban Environment and Our Lifestyles Play a Contributing Role (3rd Ed.)

Some stats, want the original source, they're in the book:

13% in the US

54% in Canada

59% in the UK

48% in the Netherlands

When interviewed, burglars in the US target unoccupied homes because they are afraid of a confrontation with an armed homeowner, burglars in other countries target occupied homes because the wallets and credit cards are there, alarms are turned off, and they can overpower the homeowners.

Go figure.

Guns and the fear of guns DO make 'Mericans safer, in their own homes, just like the "gun nuts" claim. This has been studied and analyzed as deeply as "what the did founding fathers mean when they penned the second amendment" and has proven out time and again.

Deal with that and when you deter a criminal by "making your home look occupied" while you're out you owe that deterrence to gun owners whether you own a gun or not.

It's quite unfortunate that you haven't given a first bit of consideration to the cost that this deterrent - provided it actually exists - imposes on society. If you're wondering what that cost might be, try to think about the horrendous body count that gun proliferation generates each and every year in this country. Again, almost a million and a half dead bodies over just the last half century. Is a lower percentage of hot burglaries (the US is one of the leaders in overall burglaries within the OECD) really worth a million and a half lives?

[spookyturtle 9,466]

It's quite unfortunate that you haven't given a first bit of consideration to the cost that this deterrent - provided it actually exists - imposes on society. If you're wondering what that cost might be, try to think about the horrendous body count that gun proliferation generates each and every year in this country. Again, almost a million and a half dead bodies over just the last half century. Is a lower percentage of hot burglaries (the US is one of the leaders in overall burglaries within the OECD) really worth a million and a half lives?

I wonder how it compares to the cost of all those bodies and maimed people due to auto accidents?

[Rob L 3,811]

Electricity kills people. so it would be much safer to not have electricity in a house.

The odds of injuries due to:

Exposure to electric current, radiation, temperature, and pressure at home or on the workplace is 1 in 650,000.

Engineers and scientists are constantly to improve the safety of electrical technology....can we say the same for the firearms industry

[Rob L 3,811]

The endless threads on guns in America do no good at all. What is being forgotten is that the bill of rights gives all Americans the right to own firearms. The SCOTUS has upheld that right and it is the law of the land. Everyone just needs to face that fact. It is one of the facets of living in the USA. I really doubt that the Constitution will ever be changed so if someone wants to live in the USA they need to deal with it and stop b!tching. You are just wasting your time and energy.

Feel free to not read and reply to all of the endless threads on guns in America....you can exercise that right.

The original topic did not deal with ones legal rights to own or carry a weapon.

Thus is a thread dealing with whether on the whole guns make Americans safer. No one has brought data to show how many lives are saved that I can see

[Boiler 45,531]

I assumed more people were hurt through electrical fires than directly. I have been electrocuted, nasty burn, but not hurt by a gun.

[Rob L 3,811]

I wonder how it compares to the cost of all those bodies and maimed people due to auto accidents?

According to the CDC you are 3 times as likely to die in an auto accident as you are in a gun related death. I am sure there are more than a billion trips annually in America

All homicides

Number of deaths: 16,121

Deaths per 100,000 population: 5.1

Firearm homicides

Number of deaths: 11,208

Deaths per 100,000 population: 3.5

All unintentional injury deaths

Number of deaths: 130,557

Deaths per 100,000 population: 41.3

Cause of death rank: 4

Unintentional fall deaths

Number of deaths: 30,208

Deaths per 100,000 population: 9.6

Motor vehicle traffic deaths

Number of deaths: 33,804

Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.7

Unintentional poisoning deaths

Number of deaths: 38,851

Deaths per 100,000 population: 12.3

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I wonder how it compares to the cost of all those bodies and maimed people due to auto accidents?

Ah yes, the cars comparison. As useless as ever. But let's stick with it for just a moment anyways. Given the claimed similarities, should guns not be registered and require the owner to carry liability insurance same as is the case for cars? How about it?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

According to the CDC you are 3 times as likely to die in an auto accident as you are in a gun related death. I am sure there are more than a billion trips annually in America

All homicides

Number of deaths: 16,121

Deaths per 100,000 population: 5.1

Firearm homicides

Number of deaths: 11,208

Deaths per 100,000 population: 3.5

All unintentional injury deaths

Number of deaths: 130,557

Deaths per 100,000 population: 41.3

Cause of death rank: 4

Unintentional fall deaths

Number of deaths: 30,208

Deaths per 100,000 population: 9.6

Motor vehicle traffic deaths

Number of deaths: 33,804

Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.7

Unintentional poisoning deaths

Number of deaths: 38,851

Deaths per 100,000 population: 12.3

Add the suicides to the gun death count and you're about as likely to die from a gun than from a car accident. Very soon, the odds of dying from a gun will be greater than those dying from a car accident.