Information on Name Change During Naturalization

[jeevcy 2]

Jimmy, what is wait time for Dallas area for name change through Naturalization? Thanks

[JimmyHou 611]

Jimmy, what is wait time for Dallas area for name change through Naturalization? Thanks

No idea - sorry.

Could be anywhere from a few weeks to a few months. All I know about Dallas is what you can read on the field office page.

Dallas has frequent (and even same day) administrative ceremonies, so a name change is likely to slow you down.

You'll have to decide whether you want the process to be as fast as possible or if you want to save money and effort by using the n400 name change process.

[mapsb 0]

Thank you for the helpful information. I have a question about when the name on the passport/green card is different than the name on the birth certificate/marriage certificate. If Geraldo Mohamed Leibowitz has his name listed as "Geraldo Mohamed Leibowitz" on his birth certificate and marriage certificate, but his passport (and therefor his green card) has his name as "Mohamed Leibowitz Geraldo," will he need to request a name change if he wants his name at naturalization to stay the same as what is on his green card (Mohamed Leibowitz Geraldo)?

The reason I ask is that in some Eastern countries, the family name is actually the first part of the name and is listed as such on the passport. This causes a discrepancy between the name on the birth certificate and the name on the green card. But from what I understand, the name at naturalization is based on the name on the birth certificate and not the passport/green card.

[JimmyHou 611]

Thank you for the helpful information. I have a question about when the name on the passport/green card is different than the name on the birth certificate/marriage certificate. If Geraldo Mohamed Leibowitz has his name listed as "Geraldo Mohamed Leibowitz" on his birth certificate and marriage certificate, but his passport (and therefor his green card) has his name as "Mohamed Leibowitz Geraldo," will he need to request a name change if he wants his name at naturalization to stay the same as what is on his green card (Mohamed Leibowitz Geraldo)?

The reason I ask is that in some Eastern countries, the family name is actually the first part of the name and is listed as such on the passport. This causes a discrepancy between the name on the birth certificate and the name on the green card. But from what I understand, the name at naturalization is based on the name on the birth certificate and not the passport/green card.

You are right.

When there is a discrepancy, the birth certificate is considered the deciding document unless there is a name change document or a marriage certificate that altered the name.

So in such a case if you want the name on the certificate to match the passport then you'll need a name change.

However, some officers aren't very thorough and if they see that the passport and green card names match, they may not ask for the birth certificate at all. In this case it'll be up to you to decide if you want to ask for a name change so that you have a certificate changing your birth certificate name to your passport name. Otherwise they may just print your certificate in your passport name, which is what you want except that it won't match the birth certificate. If you were to sponsor a parent in the future, you'll have to present a birth certificate that won't match your legal name.

In some cases the green card name and the passport name don't match. This is when they usually ask for the birth certificate.

Strictly speaking, the "legal name" on the application should be the birth certificate name unless it's been officially changed.

[jeevcy 2]

I didn't know you need to take birth certificate for the interview. I thought passport and GC is sufficient

[JimmyHou 611]

I didn't know you need to take birth certificate for the interview. I thought passport and GC is sufficient

Yes, that's true. But your birth certificate should already be on file.

The interviewer is unlikely to look at it unless the names on the green card and passport don't match. If they do match he'll just assume that that is your correct legal name.

If the passport and green card names don't match and your birth certificate isn't on file from your green card application, then you might be asked to mail a copy because they'll need to figure out what your legal name is.

I think it's a good idea to take the birth certificate with you. There are lots of things that come up in the interview that are not specifically asked for in advance, so it's better to be prepared.

[lvriesling 11]

It's important to note that if you are just changing your last name to take your spouse's last name or to revert to your maiden name, then a legal name change is not required. This is because a marriage certificate or a divorce certificate acts as proof of legal name change. This is true EVEN IF your certificate does not show the new name that you want to take. For example, if Anita Mary Harrolds marries Geraldo Mohamed Leibowitz, she can legally be known as Anita Mary Leibowitz even though that name does not appear anywhere on the certificate. In fact, she can also hyphenate both last names without a legal name change. However, if she wanted to change her middle name from Mary to Margaret, she would need a legal name change.

Suppose that:

1) On the marriage certificate no new names are shown for either spouse,

2) The marriage took place 5 years ago,

3) Both spouses have continued to use their pre-marriage names until today, and

4) US citizen husband wants to take last name of permanent resident (future citizen) wife

Two cases to consider:

a) Wife exercises her option to do a free name change at naturalization. Can husband now use the combination of marriage certificate and wife's naturalization to change his last name to wife's post-naturalization last name without going to court (i.e., "for free")?

b) Wife doesn't change her name during naturalization. Can husband still use the marriage certificate to take wife's last name, even though this is based on a marriage certificate from 5 years ago, "for free"?

Presumably the "for free" name change path starts with a corrected Social Security card and then moves on to the driver's license, etc., so the real question is probably "Will Social Security issue a corrected card" in either or both of the above cases...

[JimmyHou 611]

Suppose that:

1) On the marriage certificate no new names are shown for either spouse,

2) The marriage took place 5 years ago,

3) Both spouses have continued to use their pre-marriage names until today, and

4) US citizen husband wants to take last name of permanent resident (future citizen) wife

Two cases to consider:

a) Wife exercises her option to do a free name change at naturalization. Can husband now use the combination of marriage certificate and wife's naturalization to change his last name to wife's post-naturalization last name without going to court (i.e., "for free")?

b) Wife doesn't change her name during naturalization. Can husband still use the marriage certificate to take wife's last name, even though this is based on a marriage certificate from 5 years ago, "for free"?

Presumably the "for free" name change path starts with a corrected Social Security card and then moves on to the driver's license, etc., so the real question is probably "Will Social Security issue a corrected card" in either or both of the above cases...

Please understand that this is just my interpretation and that this is a strange situation.

It won't matter how old the marriage certificate is or that it doesn't have "new" names on it.

A) No. The marriage certificate changes the last name (if desired) to the last name of the spouse at the time of the marriage, not to future names.

B) If the situation were reversed, the answer is yes. However, for a man trying to take a woman's last name through marriage you might run into trouble. It may depend on state law. There was a court case related to this last year and the court ruled that the agency in question had to accept the marriage certificate as proof that the husband had taken his wife's name. However, I don't know if that was a state or a federal ruling. It may not work in your state.

It's a somewhat unusual case. If I were you, I would go to court and get a formal legal name change.

Edited June 17, 2015 by JimmyHou

[lvriesling 11]

It won't matter how old the marriage certificate is or that it doesn't have "new" names on it.

Do you know of a reference for this part of the problem? I found a news article (see below) which covers the gender angle thoroughly, and it's even from the county right next to ours, so it's almost a perfect precedent. The main difference is the timeframe (right after marriage, vs. five years later). Ok, here's the article:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/01/florida-accuses-man-of-fraud-for-taking-wifes-name-then-backs-off/

A Florida man is behind the wheel of his car again after the Department of Motor Vehicles suspended and then restored his license - accusing him of fraud at first because he changed his last name to his wife's.

"The suspension has been lifted," said Kristen Olsen-Doolan, spokeswoman for the Florida Department Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles. "We're doing training so everyone realizes it [the name change] works both ways."

Lazaro Dinh, formerly Lazaro Sopena, changed his name in July of 2011 after he married his wife, Hanh Dinh. As "an act of love" to her, he said, he decided he'd change his name.

"I wanted to surprise her," said Dinh. "My family has plenty of men and I thought it would be cool to surprise her with the news."

He began to research the Florida DMV website and, and said he called to make sure he would have the proper documents to make the name change possible. All he needed, according to the DMV, was a new Social Security card and the original marriage certificate. When he walked into the DMV offices in West Palm Beach, he paid the $20 fee and left with a new license. The couple had been married a month. Following the name change on his license, Dinh changed his name on his credit cards, passport and bank accounts.

"I figured I had everything to switch over to her last name," he said.

Fast forward a year and a half to Dec. 10, 2012. Dinh said he received a letter from the DMV saying that his license would be suspended for a year beginning on Dec. 30, 2012.

"It was just a simple letter saying they're [the DMV] suspending my license because I obtained it under fraud," said Dinh. "I thought it was a mistake."

Dinh called the DMV in Tallahassee, and soon sought out legal help. Eventually, he spoke with Forronte Battles, the DMV official handling his case. Dinh said Battles could not "understand why a man would want to change his last name to his wife's."

The DMV allowed Dinh an administrative hearing, but according to Spencer Kuvin, the attorney he called, "The hearing officer told him that he could not change his name in the same manner that a woman could. He would need to get a court order to do it. Dinh objected to that and said that it was unfair."

Dinh received notice on Jan. 14 that the DMV had denied his right to drive. He decided to ask for a hardship license - allowable if you've been accused of offenses such as drunk driving - but he was denied because of his alleged fraud.

Both Dinh and his wife work in real estate in West Palm Beach and drive heavily for work, showing properties to buyers and potential investors. When his license was suspended for 27 days, she had to drive him from property to property.

"When he took my ability to drive, I honestly freaked out," said Dinh. "My wife continued to sacrifice herself so that I can continue to earn an income."

Dinh and his lawyer decided appeal the order in civil court. They called the media. Two days later, Battles called, saying that the DMV would restore his driving privileges if he provided documentation of his name. It took less than an hour for the DMV to scan his documents, including his new passport. He was then issued a transcript saying the infraction had been removed.

"I jumped in my wife's car, told her to move over and I drove all the way home," said Dinh. "It was the first time I drove the car in 29 days."

Kuvin said the DMV "did a full about-face." Kuvin said there are currently nine states that allow a man to change his last name to his wife's, including California, Georgia, Hawaii, Iowa, Louisiana, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon and North Dakota.

"Why should a man go through all of that when a woman can walk to the DMV office with $20 and say, 'I'm married. Can I change my name?'" said Kuvin. "No one has tested the the law going backwards. It's an entirely new concept now that society has tried to bring women's equal rights up to the level of a man."

[JimmyHou 611]

Do you know of a reference for this part of the problem? I found a news article (see below) which covers the gender angle thoroughly, and it's even from the county right next to ours, so it's almost a perfect precedent. The main difference is the timeframe (right after marriage, vs. five years later). Ok, here's the article:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/01/florida-accuses-man-of-fraud-for-taking-wifes-name-then-backs-off/

A Florida man is behind the wheel of his car again after the Department of Motor Vehicles suspended and then restored his license - accusing him of fraud at first because he changed his last name to his wife's.

"The suspension has been lifted," said Kristen Olsen-Doolan, spokeswoman for the Florida Department Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles. "We're doing training so everyone realizes it [the name change] works both ways."

Lazaro Dinh, formerly Lazaro Sopena, changed his name in July of 2011 after he married his wife, Hanh Dinh. As "an act of love" to her, he said, he decided he'd change his name.

"I wanted to surprise her," said Dinh. "My family has plenty of men and I thought it would be cool to surprise her with the news."

He began to research the Florida DMV website and, and said he called to make sure he would have the proper documents to make the name change possible. All he needed, according to the DMV, was a new Social Security card and the original marriage certificate. When he walked into the DMV offices in West Palm Beach, he paid the $20 fee and left with a new license. The couple had been married a month. Following the name change on his license, Dinh changed his name on his credit cards, passport and bank accounts.

"I figured I had everything to switch over to her last name," he said.

Fast forward a year and a half to Dec. 10, 2012. Dinh said he received a letter from the DMV saying that his license would be suspended for a year beginning on Dec. 30, 2012.

"It was just a simple letter saying they're [the DMV] suspending my license because I obtained it under fraud," said Dinh. "I thought it was a mistake."

Dinh called the DMV in Tallahassee, and soon sought out legal help. Eventually, he spoke with Forronte Battles, the DMV official handling his case. Dinh said Battles could not "understand why a man would want to change his last name to his wife's."

The DMV allowed Dinh an administrative hearing, but according to Spencer Kuvin, the attorney he called, "The hearing officer told him that he could not change his name in the same manner that a woman could. He would need to get a court order to do it. Dinh objected to that and said that it was unfair."

Dinh received notice on Jan. 14 that the DMV had denied his right to drive. He decided to ask for a hardship license - allowable if you've been accused of offenses such as drunk driving - but he was denied because of his alleged fraud.

Both Dinh and his wife work in real estate in West Palm Beach and drive heavily for work, showing properties to buyers and potential investors. When his license was suspended for 27 days, she had to drive him from property to property.

"When he took my ability to drive, I honestly freaked out," said Dinh. "My wife continued to sacrifice herself so that I can continue to earn an income."

Dinh and his lawyer decided appeal the order in civil court. They called the media. Two days later, Battles called, saying that the DMV would restore his driving privileges if he provided documentation of his name. It took less than an hour for the DMV to scan his documents, including his new passport. He was then issued a transcript saying the infraction had been removed.

"I jumped in my wife's car, told her to move over and I drove all the way home," said Dinh. "It was the first time I drove the car in 29 days."

Kuvin said the DMV "did a full about-face." Kuvin said there are currently nine states that allow a man to change his last name to his wife's, including California, Georgia, Hawaii, Iowa, Louisiana, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon and North Dakota.

"Why should a man go through all of that when a woman can walk to the DMV office with $20 and say, 'I'm married. Can I change my name?'" said Kuvin. "No one has tested the the law going backwards. It's an entirely new concept now that society has tried to bring women's equal rights up to the level of a man."

Which part? The age of the certificate or the fact that it doesn't have the new names on it?

The latter is not a problem because most marriage certificates simply have the names of the two spouses at the time of the marriage. A marriage certificate isn't a name change certificate, so it won't necessary (or even usually) have the new name on it. But it can be used as evidence of a name change under the limited circumstances I mentioned above (only valid as proof of name change for taking a spouse's last name). Lots of VJ interview experiences describing how people were told they didn't need a formal name change because they could use their 3, 4, 5, etc year old marriage certificate. I don't have links, but they shouldn't be hard to find. You'll have to do a little searching.

As for the former issue; the age of the certificate; I don't think you'll find a reference for this... there's nothing that says that there's a time limit on when you have to start using a new married name. Or even that you can't switch back to your maiden name. Looking for a reference is a little like trying to prove a negative.

[lvriesling 11]

Social Security actually posts its procedures online!

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0110212055

Accept a name change document based on marriage, civil union or domestic partnership as evidence of the new name to be shown on the card, if the new name can be derived from the document.

Any of the following changes to the last name, using the names shown on the evidence, are permitted:

* bride takes the grooms last name;

* groom takes brides last name;

* spouse or partner takes the other parties last name;

* spouse or partner takes one part of the other parties compound surname;

* compound name (with or without hyphen) of each spouses or partners original surname for either or both parties

[lvriesling 11]

For same-sex couples doing name changes, here is the link to Social Security's procedure:

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0110212035

[JimmyHou 611]

Social Security actually posts its procedures online!

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0110212055

Accept a name change document based on marriage, civil union or domestic partnership as evidence of the new name to be shown on the card, if the new name can be derived from the document.

Any of the following changes to the last name, using the names shown on the evidence, are permitted:

* bride takes the grooms last name;

* groom takes brides last name;

* spouse or partner takes the other parties last name;

* spouse or partner takes one part of the other parties compound surname;

* compound name (with or without hyphen) of each spouses or partners original surname for either or both parties

For same-sex couples doing name changes, here is the link to Social Security's procedure:

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0110212035

Great info, thanks!

Edited June 18, 2015 by JimmyHou

[AnotherLostSoul 167]

Jimmy: I have a question. If someone wants to change their first name to be the English version, such Hanne to Hannah, or Sofia to Sophie, or Annabella to Annabelle or whatever...is that a legal name change? Or that qualifies to the same category as if someone just picked up their husband's last name? Thanks for your reply in advance!

[JimmyHou 611]

Jimmy: I have a question. If someone wants to change their first name to be the English version, such Hanne to Hannah, or Sofia to Sophie, or Annabella to Annabelle or whatever...is that a legal name change? Or that qualifies to the same category as if someone just picked up their husband's last name? Thanks for your reply in advance!

Any change to your name requires a legal name change.

The only difference when it comes to taking a spouse's name is that the marriage certificate is considered proof of the legal name change, so you don't have to go through the process of getting a name change certificate from a judge. The marriage (or divorce) is considered to be the legal event that changed the person's name.

So if you're changing a name, whether it's from Ana to Anna or from Ahmed to Ahmad or from George to Fred, you'll need a legal name change.

Sometimes for minor changes, an interviewer may mistakenly tell you that you don't need a legal name change... in such cases, I would insist, because when you try to change you name on your credit cards or on your mortgage, your bank may ask for proof... to them, you are still Hanne and not Hannah.

Edited July 9, 2015 by JimmyHou