Some see differences between perceptions of Waco, Baltimore

[spookyturtle 9,465]

John Crawford, Tamir Rice, Floyd Dent, Oscar Grant, Amadou Diallo.

It's amazing what happened to them, because they were killed, and they didn't run away or throw rocks or charge at police. The list goes on and on...

But we're talking about Waco, Baltimore and Ferguson.

lol. yeah. that's it.

obvious at this point you've never been around a mass group of people getting 'detained'

And you would be wrong. People not directly involved don't always get arrested and cuffed.

[decocker 7,198]

Call it whatever you want, it was over in an hour. A cop should shoot whenever his life is in danger, like in Ferguson. The Baltimore case was a blatant abuse of power by police and never should have happened. It's been investigated and cops have been arrested. There was/is no justification for the public reaction that took place in either incident.

the public peaceful protests weren't justified?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

An abuse of power by black cops, abusing a black man in their custody.

And why was the man in custody? Was it not determined that there was not actually any reason for him to be placed under arrest that day in the first place? Aren't the cops that placed him under arrest in trouble, too?

[decocker 7,198]

And you would be wrong. People not directly involved don't always get arrested and cuffed.

of course they don't ALWAYS.

normally, with large groups, it's as many as they can get their hands on. and they certainly don't ask first if you're involved.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

And why was the man in custody? Was it not determined that there was not actually any reason for him to be placed under arrest that day in the first place? Aren't the cops that placed him under arrest in trouble, too?

Several cops are in trouble. It's convenient how some like to blame it all on the white ones.

[decocker 7,198]

Several cops are in trouble. It's convenient how some like to blame it all on the white ones.

cop is a cop. doesn't matter what color. all that matters is how seriously they take their position as a public servant.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

of course they don't ALWAYS.

normally, with large groups, it's as many as they can get their hands on. and they certainly don't ask first if you're involved.

They may tell people to stick around for questioning and have a cop keep an eye on them so they don't slip away. They aren't cuffed, they aren't under arrest at that point. Every biker present did not have a gun and was not shooting. Some were there and not physically participating. If two hundred+ were fighting with guns, it wouldn't have been over quite as quickly.

cop is a cop. doesn't matter what color. all that matters is how seriously they take their position as a public servant.

That is exactly how it should be, but it seems color only matters if the cop is white and the suspect is black.

[decocker 7,198]

They may tell people to stick around for questioning and have a cop keep an eye on them so they don't slip away. They aren't cuffed, they aren't under arrest at that point. Every biker present did not have a gun and was not shooting. Some were there and not physically participating. If two hundred+ were fighting with guns, it wouldn't have been over quite as quickly.

must be nice to have such faith in police.

That is exactly how it should be, but it seems color only matters if the cop is white and the suspect is black.

we can only have the same converstation a hundred times before words start to lose meaning. we're at 99.999

[spookyturtle 9,465]

must be nice to have such faith in police.

we can only have the same converstation a hundred times before words start to lose meaning. we're at 99.999

Faith has nothing to do with it. I'm the odd duck here, I believe people are responsible for their own behavior and how you behave sometimes influences how you are treated.

But of course, everything has to be about race.

If three black bike gangs were involved in an incident like Waco and 9 were shot, it would be all about race, wouldn't it?

[decocker 7,198]

Faith has nothing to do with it. I'm the odd duck here, I believe people are responsible for their own behavior and how you behave sometimes influences how you are treated.

But of course, everything has to be about race.

If three black bike gangs were involved in an incident like Waco and 9 were shot, it would be all about race, wouldn't it?

oh but faith has everything to do with it. you've obviously encountered police before in your lifetime and they've given you no need to worry that if you're responsible in your behavior and do as you're asked you will not have any trouble.

faith would be believing this to be true for everyone - because it is true for you. you disregard the experiences others have had, because they do not line up with how you see police treating YOU.

and as far as three black bike gangs being involved in waco instead - my wager is -at minimum- every last one of those fools would've been hogtied with nylons and waiting on the wagon to pick them up for questioning.

Edited May 20, 2015 by val erie

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

But we're talking about Waco, Baltimore and Ferguson.

I was responding to you own quote. You said:

spookyturtle, on 20 May 2015 - 06:50 AM, said:

It's amazing what happens when you do what he cops say. And don't run away, throw rocks at them, charge them etc.

I was simply pointing out the logical fallacy in your statement. The above mentioned men weren't doing anything wrong and they were beaten or killed.

But back on topic:

Here you have 200 armed gang members that started an all out brawl that ended with 9 dead and 27 injured. The point that you and a few others are missing is how the cops reacted to the situation. Val is right. If this was a fight between the bloods and the crips on this large of a scale, the body count would have been much larger. Cops typically tend to get more aggressive when black and brown men are involved. Don't believe me? Look at the last month how many black guys have been killed, and 99% of them weren't armed. And I'd bet my life that you wouldn't see a bunch of black and brown men standing around on cell phones chilling giving fist bumps to the police. And we'd be having a conversation about the "Black Community", single parents, welfare, and sagging pants all on the news, media outlet, and here.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/25/1324522/--When-you-fit-the-description

This dude was completely innocent, and they had him handcuffed sitting on the curb. The bikers just engaged in a brawl with guns, knives, brass knuckles, and folks had been killed and injured. No worries.

Point blank. There's a distinct difference between how the media and people handle situations between black and white people. There's no comments about white on white violence. There's no stop buying motorcycles or any of that nonsense we had to go through when TM got killed(it was proposed that black people needed to not buy hoodies anymore).http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/01/03/3607687/oklahoma-hoodie-ban/ There's no call for anyone denouncing it.

Baltimore and Ferguson happened because black men were killed by the police and people were fed up. It's been going on for decades. Baltimore had to pay millions in restitution for brutality over the last 10 years. Ferguson sat quietly and just took it until MB was killed and left in the street like a stray dog. They covered those bikers up faster than they did his body, and it was only one of him.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

oh but faith has everything to do with it. you've obviously encountered police before in your lifetime and they've given you no need to worry that if you're responsible in your behavior and do as you're asked you will not have any trouble.

faith would be believing this to be true for everyone - because it is true for you. you disregard the experiences others have had, because they do not line up with how you see police treating YOU.

and as far as three black bike gangs being involved in waco instead - my wager is -at minimum- every last one of those fools would've hogtied with nylons and waiting on the wagon to pick them up for questioning.

The vast majority of the US population has no problems with police encounters. Most people aren't shot, killed, or arrested every time a cop passes by. The majority of the incidents posted here with cop issues involve people who have been arrested many times.. Not every incident, but an awful lot of them. If I had been arrested 25 times, perhaps the cops wouldn't give me the benefit of the doubt, but who knows?

And you dismiss my experiences because they don't suit your point of view. Most people don't get arrested, most don't fight with cops. I'm not disregarding anyone's experiences, I believe what Marvin has posted with his experiences.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Faith has nothing to do with it. I'm the odd duck here, I believe people are responsible for their own behavior and how you behave sometimes influences how you are treated.

But of course, everything has to be about race.

If three black bike gangs were involved in an incident like Waco and 9 were shot, it would be all about race, wouldn't it?

If three bike gangs had the same issue happen, there's no doubt in my mind there would be more causalities. That's a given. And you damn for sure wouldn't see them chilling on the curb waiting for the questioning.

What you're missing is how the cops react. It's about race because when it's black people, there's more force involved. Even if it's not warranted.

You get to separate the trash from the treasure. We don't get the luxury.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I was responding to you own quote. You said:

spookyturtle, on 20 May 2015 - 06:50 AM, said:

I was simply pointing out the logical fallacy in your statement. The above mentioned men weren't doing anything wrong and they were beaten or killed.

But back on topic:

Here you have 200 armed gang members that started an all out brawl that ended with 9 dead and 27 injured. The point that you and a few others are missing is how the cops reacted to the situation. Val is right. If this was a fight between the bloods and the crips on this large of a scale, the body count would have been much larger. Cops typically tend to get more aggressive when black and brown men are involved. Don't believe me? Look at the last month how many black guys have been killed, and 99% of them weren't armed. And I'd bet my life that you wouldn't see a bunch of black and brown men standing around on cell phones chilling giving fist bumps to the police. And we'd be having a conversation about the "Black Community", single parents, welfare, and sagging pants all on the news, media outlet, and here.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/25/1324522/--When-you-fit-the-description

This dude was completely innocent, and they had him handcuffed sitting on the curb. The bikers just engaged in a brawl with guns, knives, brass knuckles, and folks had been killed and injured. No worries.

Point blank. There's a distinct difference between how the media and people handle situations between black and white people. There's no comments about white on white violence. There's no stop buying motorcycles or any of that nonsense we had to go through when TM got killed(it was proposed that black people needed to not buy hoodies anymore).http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/01/03/3607687/oklahoma-hoodie-ban/ There's no call for anyone denouncing it.

Baltimore and Ferguson happened because black men were killed by the police and people were fed up. It's been going on for decades. Baltimore had to pay millions in restitution for brutality over the last 10 years. Ferguson sat quietly and just took it until MB was killed and left in the street like a stray dog. They covered those bikers up faster than they did his body, and it was only one of him.

Over 180 bikers were arrested, 9 killed and several wounded and you guys are arguing that they got preferential treatment because they were white? Are the dead ones less dead?

If three bike gangs had the same issue happen, there's no doubt in my mind there would be more causalities. That's a given. And you damn for sure wouldn't see them chilling on the curb waiting for the questioning.

What you're missing is how the cops react. It's about race because when it's black people, there's more force involved. Even if it's not warranted.

You get to separate the trash from the treasure. We don't get the luxury.

No, they wouldn't have been chillin' on the curb. They probably would be attacking the police and crying racism. And then burning the city.

[decocker 7,198]

The vast majority of the US population has no problems with police encounters. Most people aren't shot, killed, or arrested every time a cop passes by. The majority of the incidents posted here with cop issues involve people who have been arrested many times.. Not every incident, but an awful lot of them. If I had been arrested 25 times, perhaps the cops wouldn't give me the benefit of the doubt, but who knows?

And you dismiss my experiences because they don't suit your point of view. Most people don't get arrested, most don't fight with cops. I'm not disregarding anyone's experiences, I believe what Marvin has posted with his experiences.

i'm not dismissing your experience. hell our experiences are probably very similar. i've never been in 'trouble' but i have been witness to cops treating people differently based upon how they look. basically every interaction i had with cops when i was younger (all involving groups of white kids) the cops sniffed out who they believed to be the weakest link (read as looks the most like a freak) and sunk their teeth in. i've seen cops illegally question a minors, illegally detain minors, take money/drugs without so much as even calling in a name. i just want to know - what good comes from a cop giving a suspect the 'benefit of the doubt'? i'm not really sure why cops should give 'the benefit of the doubt' to anyone ever. is the choice a cop has to make day in and out one of, 'am i going to give this guy the benefit of the doubt or fear for my life and shoot?"