I Cannot Believe What My Ears Heard, Today!!!

[raven52 233]

I started this thread. What I said was exactly what was said on Fox and NBC within a 30 minute period. It "is word for word" fro the president's office.

I knew this would really up set some people, especially the ones, that have been waiting so long.

This is a huge thread, and maybe one of the longest ones I have seen, so no doubt, it is a "hot topic" subject.

I have read every post, (except the ones MODS took off).,.,.,and by an over whelming, 9 out of 10 posts, are against what this president is doing!

Even last night, I had a pleasant exchange with a self proclaimed, "hard core liberal" (I am ultra conservative) and him and I found common ground and was able to agree that ""ILLEGALS" should not be put in front of tax paying US citizens, that go about immigration the right way.

My biggest concern is what is going to be left of "the country as we knew it at one time" in the next year and a half.

Someone will have a lot work to do, no matter who is elected, to ever get this country back to where it was in the days of Bill Clinton (who I am a fan of) George W..,., (Iraq huge mistake) and maybe who is elected, will find a way to stream-line the immigration process, and a comprehensive "bill through congress" to deal with people that are being processed 2 to 4 thousand a day.

THEY, should be in the back of the line! US tax paying citizens first, always!

[Limey 551]

Someone will have a lot work to do, no matter who is elected, to ever get this country back to where it was in the days of Bill Clinton (who I am a fan of) George W..,., (Iraq huge mistake) and maybe who is elected, will find a way to stream-line the immigration process, and a comprehensive "bill through congress" to deal with people that are being processed 2 to 4 thousand a day.

You're a fan of Bill Clinton? The same Bill Clinton who granted amnesty to 3 million illegals?

Those covered by DACA must have completed high school, or have been honorably discharged from the armed forces. So they can fight for the USA, but they aren't welcome by some here in the USA. Fair enough I guess.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Limey

[raven52 233]

ALL, presidents make mistakes, even George W., and Bill Clinton, but we never had a ""COMMUNITY ORGANIZER"" as president before.,.,.and his mistakes are endless!

Why is ISIS in the middle east? And just took a town that American lives were lost, and can never be recovered.

IF he would have left a small force in Iraq, as suggested, then we would not be in the mess we are in in the middle east. IRAN, in Iraq? My God, let us exist 1 and 1/2 years, there has to be something better!.,.,.,.Anybody would! He WILL, go down as the worst president ever, with decisions like this one on immigration.

US tax payers come before, ""ILLEGAL ALIENS"".,.,., what part of that is wrong? Or maybe you just did not hear the news cast on 2 different networks, both saying the same thing!

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

You're a fan of Bill Clinton? The same Bill Clinton who granted amnesty to 3 million illegals?

Those covered by DACA must have completed high school, or have been honorably discharged from the armed forces. So they can fight for the USA, but they aren't welcome by some here in the USA. Fair enough I guess.

[Boiler 44,858]

You're a fan of Bill Clinton? The same Bill Clinton who granted amnesty to 3 million illegals?

Those covered by DACA must have completed high school, or have been honorably discharged from the armed forces. So they can fight for the USA, but they aren't welcome by some here in the USA. Fair enough I guess.

Incorrect

[usmsbow 801]

ALL, presidents make mistakes, even George W., and Bill Clinton, but we never had a ""COMMUNITY ORGANIZER"" as president before.,.,.and his mistakes are endless!

Why is ISIS in the middle east? And just took a town that American lives were lost, and can never be recovered.

IF he would have left a small force in Iraq, as suggested, then we would not be in the mess we are in in the middle east. IRAN, in Iraq? My God, let us exist 1 and 1/2 years, there has to be something better!.,.,.,.Anybody would! He WILL, go down as the worst president ever, with decisions like this one on immigration.

US tax payers come before, ""ILLEGAL ALIENS"".,.,., what part of that is wrong? Or maybe you just did not hear the news cast on 2 different networks, both saying the same thing!

Your clear partisanship is showing and you're really veering off immigration.

1. ISIS is in the middle east because it is a middle eastern entity . Its leadership are locals. You mean why does ISIS exist? A number of reasons, one of which is due to Dubya, who decided to invade Iraq to eliminate a secular government. Consequently a power vacuum occurred, and voila, hello ISIS! Yes, this is a simplification, but Bush's actions had more of a role in ISIS than Obama's.

2. The Bush administration was the one that signed the agreement with the Iraqi government in 2008, before Obama became President, that stated US troops would be gone by 2011. Yes, Obama failed to make a new agreement with the Iraqi government (more due to the Iraqi government than the Obama administration), but his predecessor was the one who made the original decision to have US troops pull out 100%.

3. One mess in the Middle East can be placed on Obama- Libya. Now that was bad policy. Syria? No. Israel/Palestine? Ha, that's been a problem for as long as there has been civilization. Yemen? No.

Obama is no saint, but worst president in US history? Spare me the hyperbole. No presidential historian would agree with you on that one.

Edited May 20, 2015 by usmsbow

[Tahoma 2,291]

ISIS is flourishing because of George Bush's lies.

He lied about the weapons of mass destruction.

He lied about Iraq's connection to Al-Quida.

He lied about the "uranium-enrichment" tubes.

He lied about the "smoking-gun" documents.

He even lied to General Colin Powell.

Then he started a war that costed hundreds of thousands of lives, and millions of displaced.

Then he disbanded the Iraqi armed forces.

Of course, you wouldn't know any of this if you watched FAUX News.

[yuna628 9,646]

I started this thread. What I said was exactly what was said on Fox and NBC within a 30 minute period. It "is word for word" fro the president's office.

I knew this would really up set some people, especially the ones, that have been waiting so long.

This is a huge thread, and maybe one of the longest ones I have seen, so no doubt, it is a "hot topic" subject.

I have read every post, (except the ones MODS took off).,.,.,and by an over whelming, 9 out of 10 posts, are against what this president is doing!

Even last night, I had a pleasant exchange with a self proclaimed, "hard core liberal" (I am ultra conservative) and him and I found common ground and was able to agree that ""ILLEGALS" should not be put in front of tax paying US citizens, that go about immigration the right way.

My biggest concern is what is going to be left of "the country as we knew it at one time" in the next year and a half.

Someone will have a lot work to do, no matter who is elected, to ever get this country back to where it was in the days of Bill Clinton (who I am a fan of) George W..,., (Iraq huge mistake) and maybe who is elected, will find a way to stream-line the immigration process, and a comprehensive "bill through congress" to deal with people that are being processed 2 to 4 thousand a day.

THEY, should be in the back of the line! US tax paying citizens first, always!

I'm not what you call a liberal or a conservative. I'm liberal on social ideals and more libertarian/constitutionalist on some fiscal ideas. So I guess you could call me more of an independent if that's what label you want to put on it. Honestly though Reagan (and hey I liked him as a Pres) started many of the concepts we see put forward today about amnesty, and to be fair I understand why he did. These views have been carried by pretty much every administration since then. To me there is not much difference between Reagan's policy on amnesty to each and every single President after him policy.

And no, I don't agree that processing illegals, if that is through DAPA/DACA et al; should be put to the front of the line. Nor do I believe corporations seeking temporary migrants should be put to the front of the line.

But consider the system as a whole, we know it needs a lot of fixing. You know that unless you are a fiancé, married, student, get into the lottery, claim asylum, or manage to obtain a working visa by miracle there aren't a whole lot of options to immigrate to the ''land of opportunity''. To me many of those who come here illegally do so because their own country has failed them in some way, or they live in unimaginable poverty and death - desperation. And yes probably some come to partake in other illegal activities. Both illegals and legal temporary migrants often work in deplorable conditions once they are here, and yet they still continue to keep at it, hopeful that what little money they make can help their families suffering back home. People who do these jobs perform services that are often unimaginable to the average American and have created a strange sort of niche in the economy that has its own role to play.

Now you might inject a but here, and say BUT there are plenty of other desperate people who are going about this the RIGHT way. That's true. Even temporaries are trying to go about it the right way. Europe is going through it's own immigration problem right now, with thousands of persons in boats that are fleeing because of violence, religious and social persecution and are then dying on their own boats. They are just as desperate as the persons who come to our country on foot (if not perhaps even more desperate). During WWII there were many very desperate people that would do anything to flee to a safe country (including here) whether they were legal or not. Some said, turn them away back then, just like they are saying in Europe now. Just like they are saying here.

Perhaps the problem really is with the system itself in not providing an attainable pathway for certain types of desperate people and being too complex to navigate. Could those who flee from Latin American countries and across to our borders claim asylum? Probably not under current rules. But once they make the choice to come here, many do actually manage to put money into our economy through jobs and some even pay some kind of taxes. Once they are here, it is easy to say - NO, kick them out. They broke the law. But Americans are a society that don't seem to have the want or the stomach for it - especially our politicians. And even saying that is too easy of an answer, because I think everyone here acknowledges this is something that is a complex situation. Once you start a policy and you keep continue it through administrations, and then you want to stop it, I think you'd understand why it's suddenly hard to say no.

I often make this argument about Social Security. We all know it's kind of broken, and probably won't be around after a while unless it's fixed. But we kick the can down the road, so we don't have to deal with it. Illegal immigrants are the new can being kicked. My dad is a pretty big conservative you know, who decries a lot of social policies, but he wouldn't know what the heck to do without his social security and he also doesn't care to think about what will happen to my social security, or my own children's children's social security, just so long as he gets his check. Likewise I think if we suddenly kicked every illegal immigrant out, and deported en mass, you'd see an effect of unintended consequences at play. Maybe some Americans would take those jobs, but maybe they wouldn't. In fact, I'm willing to bet not many would be willing to take a job an illegal immigrant does - pitiful pay, no benefits, poor working conditions. That might drive some companies out of business. That might slow production. Any number of things could indeed happen.

For me, my main issue are the children in these cases. The ones born here, and the ones brought here through no fault of their own. They may not have any idea they are 'illegal'. They have no ties to their home country. They identify themselves as patriotic Americans. They work and pay taxes. They may be married and have their own kids. Or they may still be young enough to be considered a child, but aware enough to know the gravity of what hell their parents have brought upon them (you can find a recent case on this forum of an elderly man being deported). If they do find out they are 'illegal' they carry a hard burden on their shoulders as to what to do. The actions of their parents have essentially ruined their lives. I can easily put myself into their shoes, and what that must feel like. I strongly feel it is for those people that deserve at least some kind of a way forward.

So you don't like illegal immigrants going to the front. Neither do I. I don't like the choices they've made, and I especially don't like the position they put their children in. What I don't like most of all is the tone and behavior some treat them with. I'm acutely aware of what's going on in Europe right now, and the very hostile, even xenophobic tone people are treating all immigrants with in some countries (yes even the legal ones!). On occasion the attitude toward illegal immigrants also spreads out towards those here legally. They are berated about their English speaking ability, their choice of jobs, their looks, or even their country. People from Latin America can be treated very hostile, even if they are here legally, in the same way even a Muslim is. For once, I just wish we could tone down the rhetoric and work on actual solutions to the problem. Put down the conspiracy theories, and the hatred, and have better respect and kindness towards each other.

The legal pathway is broken, it needs to be fixed and managed better, updated for a modern age. We need to have fairer policies, loopholes need to be closed. But perhaps also different types of pathways that offer various opportunities should be put in place. The Service Centers are especially broken, and this is directly related to the USCIS not being held accountable to anyone and is poorly managed. Our policies aren't working. But I don't see hope of this changing with any new administration. I can be mad at the system, I can be mad at how slow it's taken for us, and can be mad at how slow and painful it has been for each and every one of you in your situations - but I'm not going to stand here seething about illegal immigrants, or President. He's a guy with a difficult job to do. Most of the time he doesn't seem to enjoy it very much. I don't have to agree with everything he does, because if you're elected by a majority there will always be a minority that won't be pleased about something. We all have choices to make and lives to live. We all have to get in the line and wait. If someone keeps going in front of that line, I'm mad yes. But then I stop and realize there's not a single thing I can do to stop that, and if I stand there constantly fuming about it my life will be miserable. If people are here illegally and there's a way provided to become in a state of legality and the person actually wants to atone and do that, I can't stop that either. The Supreme Court will probably eventually have it's say on the policy, and I think you're going to be disappointed. Politics and the persons who are involved in it, are disappointing overall. I think the next President in there, you're going to be disappointed.

What will become of this country? The same thing it always is and was. A nation of immigrants, one way, or another.

Edited May 20, 2015 by yuna628

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

I'm not what you call a liberal or a conservative. I'm liberal on social ideals and more libertarian/constitutionalist on some fiscal ideas. So I guess you could call me more of an independent if that's what label you want to put on it. Honestly though Reagan (and hey I liked him as a Pres) started many of the concepts we see put forward today about amnesty, and to be fair I understand why he did. These views have been carried by pretty much every administration since then. To me there is not much difference between Reagan's policy on amnesty to each and every single President after him policy.

And no, I don't agree that processing illegals, if that is through DAPA/DACA et al; should be put to the front of the line. Nor do I believe corporations seeking temporary migrants should be put to the front of the line.

But consider the system as a whole, we know it needs a lot of fixing. You know that unless you are a fiancé, married, student, get into the lottery, claim asylum, or manage to obtain a working visa by miracle there aren't a whole lot of options to immigrate to the ''land of opportunity''. To me many of those who come here illegally do so because their own country has failed them in some way, or they live in unimaginable poverty and death - desperation. And yes probably some come to partake in other illegal activities. Both illegals and legal temporary migrants often work in deplorable conditions once they are here, and yet they still continue to keep at it, hopeful that what little money they make can help their families suffering back home. People who do these jobs perform services that are often unimaginable to the average American and have created a strange sort of niche in the economy that has its own role to play.

Now you might inject a but here, and say BUT there are plenty of other desperate people who are going about this the RIGHT way. That's true. Even temporaries are trying to go about it the right way. Europe is going through it's own immigration problem right now, with thousands of persons in boats that are fleeing because of violence, religious and social persecution and are then dying on their own boats. They are just as desperate as the persons who come to our country on foot (if not perhaps even more desperate). During WWII there were many very desperate people that would do anything to flee to a safe country (including here) whether they were legal or not. Some said, turn them away back then, just like they are saying in Europe now. Just like they are saying here.

Perhaps the problem really is with the system itself in not providing an attainable pathway for certain types of desperate people and being too complex to navigate. Could those who flee from Latin American countries and across to our borders claim asylum? Probably not under current rules. But once they make the choice to come here, many do actually manage to put money into our economy through jobs and some even pay some kind of taxes. Once they are here, it is easy to say - NO, kick them out. They broke the law. But Americans are a society that don't seem to have the want or the stomach for it - especially our politicians. And even saying that is too easy of an answer, because I think everyone here acknowledges this is something that is a complex situation. Once you start a policy and you keep continue it through administrations, and then you want to stop it, I think you'd understand why it's suddenly hard to say no.

I often make this argument about Social Security. We all know it's kind of broken, and probably won't be around after a while unless it's fixed. But we kick the can down the road, so we don't have to deal with it. Illegal immigrants are the new can being kicked. My dad is a pretty big conservative you know, who decries a lot of social policies, but he wouldn't know what the heck to do without his social security and he also doesn't care to think about what will happen to my social security, or my own children's children's social security, just so long as he gets his check. Likewise I think if we suddenly kicked every illegal immigrant out, and deported en mass, you'd see an effect of unintended consequences at play. Maybe some Americans would take those jobs, but maybe they wouldn't. In fact, I'm willing to bet not many would be willing to take a job an illegal immigrant does - pitiful pay, no benefits, poor working conditions. That might drive some companies out of business. That might slow production. Any number of things could indeed happen.

For me, my main issue are the children in these cases. The ones born here, and the ones brought here through no fault of their own. They may not have any idea they are 'illegal'. They have no ties to their home country. They identify themselves as patriotic Americans. They work and pay taxes. They may be married and have their own kids. Or they may still be young enough to be considered a child, but aware enough to know the gravity of what hell their parents have brought upon them (you can find a recent case on this forum of an elderly man being deported). If they do find out they are 'illegal' they carry a hard burden on their shoulders as to what to do. The actions of their parents have essentially ruined their lives. I can easily put myself into their shoes, and what that must feel like. I strongly feel it is for those people that deserve at least some kind of a way forward.

So you don't like illegal immigrants going to the front. Neither do I. I don't like the choices they've made, and I especially don't like the position they put their children in. What I don't like most of all is the tone and behavior some treat them with. I'm acutely aware of what's going on in Europe right now, and the very hostile, even xenophobic tone people are treating all immigrants with in some countries (yes even the legal ones!). On occasion the attitude toward illegal immigrants also spreads out towards those here legally. They are berated about their English speaking ability, their choice of jobs, their looks, or even their country. People from Latin America can be treated very hostile, even if they are here legally, in the same way even a Muslim is. For once, I just wish we could tone down the rhetoric and work on actual solutions to the problem. Put down the conspiracy theories, and the hatred, and have better respect and kindness towards each other.

The legal pathway is broken, it needs to be fixed and managed better, updated for a modern age. We need to have fairer policies, loopholes need to be closed. But perhaps also different types of pathways that offer various opportunities should be put in place. The Service Centers are especially broken, and this is directly related to the USCIS not being held accountable to anyone and is poorly managed. Our policies aren't working. But I don't see hope of this changing with any new administration. I can be mad at the system, I can be mad at how slow it's taken for us, and can be mad at how slow and painful it has been for each and every one of you in your situations - but I'm not going to stand here seething about illegal immigrants, or President. He's a guy with a difficult job to do. Most of the time he doesn't seem to enjoy it very much. I don't have to agree with everything he does, because if you're elected by a majority there will always be a minority that won't be pleased about something. We all have choices to make and lives to live. We all have to get in the line and wait. If someone keeps going in front of that line, I'm mad yes. But then I stop and realize there's not a single thing I can do to stop that, and if I stand there constantly fuming about it my life will be miserable. If people are here illegally and there's a way provided to become in a state of legality and the person actually wants to atone and do that, I can't stop that either. The Supreme Court will probably eventually have it's say on the policy, and I think you're going to be disappointed. Politics and the persons who are involved in it, are disappointing overall. I think the next President in there, you're going to be disappointed.

What will become of this country? The same thing it always is and was. A nation of immigrants, one way, or another.

Well written, articulated with empathy and a brain behind it all. Refreshing !

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

ALL, presidents make mistakes, even George W., and Bill Clinton, but we never had a ""COMMUNITY ORGANIZER"" as president before.,.,.and his mistakes are endless!

Why is ISIS in the middle east? And just took a town that American lives were lost, and can never be recovered.

IF he would have left a small force in Iraq, as suggested, then we would not be in the mess we are in in the middle east. IRAN, in Iraq? My God, let us exist 1 and 1/2 years, there has to be something better!.,.,.,.Anybody would! He WILL, go down as the worst president ever, with decisions like this one on immigration.

US tax payers come before, ""ILLEGAL ALIENS"".,.,., what part of that is wrong? Or maybe you just did not hear the news cast on 2 different networks, both saying the same thing!

They can't all be actors like Ronald.

Obama is a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he served as president of the Harvard Law Review.

He was a community organizer in Chicago before earning his law degree. He worked as a civil rights attorney and taught constitutional law at

University Chicago Law School from 1992 to 2004. He served three terms representing the 13th District in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004.

He will definitely not go down as the worst President. He won. Twice. Get over it.

[yuna628 9,646]

They can't all be actors like Ronald.

Obama is a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he served as president of the Harvard Law Review.

He was a community organizer in Chicago before earning his law degree. He worked as a civil rights attorney and taught constitutional law at

University Chicago Law School from 1992 to 2004. He served three terms representing the 13th District in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004.

He will definitely not go down as the worst President. He won. Twice. Get over it.

Nope, not the worst President in my book either. I could think of some real stinkers historically you know?

He's a very highly educated man and knows the trickery of law so well, that heh, you could argue he knows how to push it enough to irritate people.

When my cousin worked on the Hill, he would often say all men get drunk on the idea of being President and what it means to be a President, and then when they are elected and wake up the next morning, they have a hangover that never ends.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

I started this thread. What I said was exactly what was said on Fox and NBC within a 30 minute period. It "is word for word" fro the president's office.

I knew this would really up set some people, especially the ones, that have been waiting so long.

This is a huge thread, and maybe one of the longest ones I have seen, so no doubt, it is a "hot topic" subject.

I have read every post, (except the ones MODS took off).,.,.,and by an over whelming, 9 out of 10 posts, are against what this president is doing!

Even last night, I had a pleasant exchange with a self proclaimed, "hard core liberal" (I am ultra conservative) and him and I found common ground and was able to agree that ""ILLEGALS" should not be put in front of tax paying US citizens, that go about immigration the right way.

My biggest concern is what is going to be left of "the country as we knew it at one time" in the next year and a half.

Someone will have a lot work to do, no matter who is elected, to ever get this country back to where it was in the days of Bill Clinton (who I am a fan of) George W..,., (Iraq huge mistake) and maybe who is elected, will find a way to stream-line the immigration process, and a comprehensive "bill through congress" to deal with people that are being processed 2 to 4 thousand a day.

THEY, should be in the back of the line! US tax paying citizens first, always!

Not that huge, only 7 pages, the longest you have seen ?

9 out of 10 ? You math is off too.

Why are you a fan of Bill Clinton who granted amnesty to millions as did other Presidents but when Obama wants Immigration Reform you

throw a hissy fit ? Maybe because you weren't in line then ? Clearly you don't understand immigration history.

You are contradicting your own views. This thread is an Obama rant not intelligently discussing service center delays.

[Boiler 44,858]

Reagan did say that Amnesty was his biggest mistake, the other side of the deal never happened, and it never will.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Nope, not the worst President in my book either. I could think of some real stinkers historically you know?

He's a very highly educated man and knows the trickery of law so well, that heh, you could argue he knows how to push it enough to irritate people.

When my cousin worked on the Hill, he would often say all men get drunk on the idea of being President and what it means to be a President, and then when they are elected and wake up the next morning, they have a hangover that never ends.

LOl, yes and some just can't handle that a "community organizer" has the gall to be so intelligent, it won't compute.

I like what someone said earlier, when the next Prez comes along, the outgoing one will have a smirk on his face thinking wait until you

sit in that chair and see what's really up. I have always had that same visual !

Until they sit in that chair in that office......

Meanwhile the peanut gallery carries on.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Reagan did say that Amnesty was his biggest mistake, the other side of the deal never happened, and it never will.

Myth.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/internet-myth-ronald-reagan-regretted-legalization/