I Cannot Believe What My Ears Heard, Today!!!

[Pennycat 880]

The right term is "undocumented" not "illegal". There are no illegal human beings.

Undocumented means entered a country without processing---"border jumping" etc. That's not an overly common way of being "illegally present". The most common way is to enter documented on a visa, and overstay or misuse that visa. That's "out of status". Both are forms of illegally immigrating, which is why the term has long been "illegal immigrant". I understand that that is now a politically charged term and has fallen out of favor with many people due to the inherent negativity of the term (and I don't disagree) but I really, seriously object to classifying ALL such people under the incorrect umbrella term "undocumented". Being *actually* undocumented carries a MUCH bigger risk and punishment and necessarily evokes the image of sneaking across a border clandestinely in the night and, to me, only worsens the negative impression evoked in discussions of those people here without legal status.

Plus, it inadvertently leaves the "out of status" folks out of the conversation, or lets them off the hook, which is really too bad because out of all the people here without status, it's the undocumented ones who are the most vulnerable, most at-risk and, frankly, came from the most dire and desperate circumstances and really don't deserve to take 100% of the ire directed at illegal immigrants while some (not ALL but SOME) B2 and F1 overstayers often had the means and opportunity to do things the "right" way and simply chose not to because it's quicker/easier/faster/cheaper to just do whatever you want whenever you want. Most of these people very firmly believe that they're not "one of them" because the language we use *necessarily* evokes border jumping. "Undocumented" makes that much, much worse. Because the visa overstayers ARE "documented". So they consider that they're just....better than. Or other than. Or not part of the problem. And just let the most vulnerable take the full fall for this. It's not right.

So, for me, I still prefer "illegal immigrant" because it's simply the most accurate and it is short and to the point. I'd love to find another term that is less politically charged but is still accurate and not cumbersome. And this is by NO means in relation to US immigration only. My fiance's country has a descent sized problem with illegal immigration, too. From undocumented Nicaraguans sneaking across the border and working under the table etc, to snot-nosed "trust-a-farian" Americans showing up with tourist visas and oopsies just sort of forgetting to leave on time. Different patterns, both illegal, both with intent or result to immigrate. Illegal immigrants. Easy, to the point.

You can call it whatever you want, I'm not saying you need to agree with me on that, but this little point of accuracy may seem like a silly pet peeve but I really, truly believe that it's doing much more harm to the cause than good.

Edited May 19, 2015 by CatherineA

[Pennycat 880]

Long story short : I do not feel the urge to blame, bad mouth and let my anger out on DACA kids just because our journey took forever.

I can be upset with the poor managing of the service centers and I can rally for change and I can even try to effect change with written letters

but I will not vent my anger of my own unfair treatment towards DACA recipients. That is misdirected.

I agree with you on that, and I haven't seen any of that on this thread (on others, yes). It appears that the anger is directed at the decision maker(s) and priority setter(s), and with that I would have to agree. It is simply bad management to come up with a new program and not have any sort of identifiable plan in place to execute it, without gumming up the works. This goes for *anything*, politics, business, assembly line....any of it. They should have and worse, COULD have handled it much differently. Hired up and/or provided a devoted service center to process these applicants (like it seems they are/were trying to do for DAPA until the injunction....think they learned from a past, recent, major screw-up?). Could have/should have charged a filing fee to offset the cost associated with the extra workload so that they could hire more people to continue to work on the fiance/spousal visas. Could have/should have done a LOT of things differently.

Mad at the kids? Me, no. Envious? Perhaps (however, I personally would *never* choose to trade lives with someone raised with no legal status by parents who could be deported at any moment so....). Mad that they are being prioritized over me? Yes. But that's not their fault. I DO wish that they'd realize that they've got the fast track here and stop it with the public write-up sob stories, but they're mostly young and this is their first experience with the legal immigration process so they have NO idea how lucky they've gotten. I am still super upset at the people in charge giving priority to them over me. They get to stay, they get to see their families every day, they are no longer at risk of deportation so WHY do they *need* to be processed so quickly, to the detriment of others etc? Why haven't they been charged fees (beyond the EAD and the biometrics that we ALL pay) enough to offset the cost associated with processing them? I mostly just hate that this is a zero-sum game. That them getting something means that others are not. It's just not right when you're talking about real people's real lives and families and futures. And that goes for all of us, DACA kids or not.

[Cathi 5,755]

Mr. Mrs. Jenkins, you are exactly right, but the biggest thing that bothers me, is these ""ILLEGALS"" are going to get benefits, that my wife who came here two years ago, is not entitled to!

But, we paid the thousands of dollars for her K-1 visa, and waited a "gut wrenching 10 months and 4 days" for our NOA 2.,.,. and these people.,.,.,"just walk across the border," and this president is encouraging it!

My gosh, how far do we fall, before we "wake up!"

illegals were getting benefits LONG BEFORE Obama was in office. Good Lord this is the most ridiculous thread, ever. You watch far too much Faux(Fox)news and Bill O'Liar(O'Reilly)

[Dualie 185]

The thing I find sad is that the "powers that be" put a priority on the illegals over their own citizens and their families. Just sad, and scary.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

I think it's appaling. It took 15 months to get my CR-1 visa. And I'm supposed to feel sorry for ILLEGALS? Please, don't make me laugh. After the waiting, sleepless nights and hardships to get to this point. After doing everything by the book to get to this point. I feel NOTHING for illegal aliens. Put them on a cattle truck and ship them off home.

15 month eh ? You poor thing, it took us 5 years, doing everything by the book, crossing every t and dotting every i.

Sleepless nights and hardship you suffered in those 15 month, I get it but don't you think

that thousands of children and young adults who were brought here as infants aren't facing tremendous lifelong hardships if send back ?

Those who would be send back to a country they don't even know nor speak the language and where they suffer and starve ?

I am speaking here of DACA kids/teens/young adults whose parents made them come and they did not have a choice to say : I can't go I would be

undocumented.

What of those kids ? You want them herded like cattle and shipped back like life stock because you had to wait 15 months ? Seriously ?

I am appalled by your strong words of cattle truck.

I am all for entering the country legally but your post reflects the disdain towards undocumented immigrants I was previously talking about.

Hating a group of people because you didn't go fast enough through the process when it is the responsibility of the USCIS to keep things

flowing is not seeing the big picture. This misguided energy needs to be channeled on action to better management of all service

centers. Instead of wanting to ship "them back on cattle trucks" why don't you do something productive to find a solution ?

They are already here. Deal with it.

[Smelserjl 137]

15 month eh ? You poor thing, it took us 5 years, doing everything by the book, crossing every t and dotting every i.

Sleepless nights and hardship you suffered in those 15 month, I get it but don't you think

that thousands of children and young adults who were brought here as infants aren't facing tremendous lifelong hardships if send back ?

Those who would be send back to a country they don't even know nor speak the language and where they suffer and starve ?

I am speaking here of DACA kids/teens/young adults whose parents made them come and they did not have a choice to say : I can't go I would be

undocumented.

What of those kids ? You want them herded like cattle and shipped back like life stock because you had to wait 15 months ? Seriously ?

I am appalled by your strong words of cattle truck.

I am all for entering the country legally but your post reflects the disdain towards undocumented immigrants I was previously talking about.

Hating a group of people because you didn't go fast enough through the process when it is the responsibility of the USCIS to keep things

flowing is not seeing the big picture. This misguided energy needs to be channeled on action to better management of all service

centers. Instead of wanting to ship "them back on cattle trucks" why don't you do something productive to find a solution ?

They are already here. Deal with it.

I think that most people who feel ill-will toward illegal/undocumented immigrants do because they don't understand the process. They see it as, there are lots of people here who are "jumping" the line, instead of, "The people who process need to hurry up/more money needs to be funneled with dealing with these cases." In addition, changes in foreign policy measures that clearly affect the amount of people coming to the US illegally. I completely agree with all your points. People need to think critically when evaluating who's really to blame, and I think you're on the money!

[TBoneTX 45,309]

MODS – Can we start deleting, warning, and banning forum members who continually insult and denigrate other members because of their political beliefs?

Eight off-topic posts have been removed. Please adhere to discussing policies and procedures.

Thread-bans are risked by those who insult or denigrate other members for any reason. We can disagree without being disagreeable. If you're in doubt in regard to what you're about to post, review the VJ Terms of Service before hitting "add reply."

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

I have been on VJ since 2006 (under a different email account/user name) with a short break in between and have seen the crazy

fluctuations between the super slow and other, much faster centers and then it would reverse. Vermont and California were bipolar.

How on earth do you explain that happening long before Obama ever took office ?

DACA has something to do with it now no doubt but not as much as you think.

It is mismanagement for the most part, pure and simple.

Undocumented immigrants have always been a part of the US, what is all the outrage about now ?

Previous presidents granted amnesty and worked for laws of better integration but I know what this hype is really all about,

same old same old.

The "stuff" is stirred for political theater to make it stink real good and many of you swallow it hook, line and sinker

and scream the sky is falling.....give me a break. Write well thought out letters to USCIS instead of doing nothing.

Congress is not drafting any alternatives but twiddle their thumbs and shut down and go home. Ha !

[Limey 551]

Hey, I'm no fan of Fox News myself but I know how long I waited for my Visa. There's a bit of truth in every lie as they say. Something is causing the huge delays, the most likely candidate is pushing illegals to the front of the queue. What do you think the reason is?

Thats obvious.

There is no votes in immigration, so the system is under resourced - that applies whoever is in power.

[Hotter Otter 1,211]

I think it's appaling. It took 15 months to get my CR-1 visa. And I'm supposed to feel sorry for ILLEGALS? Please, don't make me laugh. After the waiting, sleepless nights and hardships to get to this point. After doing everything by the book to get to this point. I feel NOTHING for illegal aliens. Put them on a cattle truck and ship them off home.

The term cattle truck has some really unpleasant connotations.

You are basically saying that a 15 month (which I agree is lengthy) wait has stripped you of empathy and that because you had a hard time with your visa all the illegals should be shipped home. Seems a bit unfair especially with DACA filers. If you were bought to the US by your parents would you consider it fair to be shipped home to a country you barely know because of what your parents did?

I think its wrong that DACA was allowed to impact legal filers (I was affected too) but that doesn't mean I want to wave my magic wand around and deport everyone because my visa took longer than it should have.

[Saffer 27]

Hey look, I'm entitled to my opinion. This thread seems to be filled with bleeding hearts. "Think of the children!!!!" and so on... Fair enough, but don't expect me to grow a bleeding heart too.

I come from a country with a massive illegal immigrant problem. It is currently causing xenophobic violence and disrupting the economy on a large scale. Why bother having borders when no-one is going to enforce border controls and laws? Don't citizens come first in their own countries anymore?

What I'd like to see in the US is a clamp down on illegal immigration to the point where there will be very few children to use as an excuse to allow parents to break laws and expect sympathy from those who want to appear superior to me.

why don't you do something productive to find a solution ?

I'll help build the wall.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Saffer

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Hey look, I'm entitled to my opinion. This thread seems to be filled with bleeding hearts. "Think of the children!!!!" and so on... Fair enough, but don't expect me to grow a bleeding heart too.

I come from a country with a massive illegal immigrant problem. It is currently causing xenophobic violence and disrupting the economy on a large scale. Why bother having borders when no-one is going to enforce border controls and laws? Don't citizens come first in their own countries anymore?

What I'd like to see in the US is a clamp down on illegal immigration to the point where there will be very few children to use as an excuse to allow parents to break laws and expect sympathy from those who want to appear superior to me.

why don't you do something productive to find a solution ?

I'll help build the wall.

I am proud to be a bleeding heart for children, yes, most definitely and thank you for the compliment, I don't take it as an insult at all

though it was meant to be.

I don't expect you to change anything about yourself, that's between you and your maker.

After Apartheid nothing was learned seemingly. Feel free to start digging for yet another wall to keep humans neatly in their place.

Perhaps you need to wall yourself in to a point where you lose sight of humanity and it's complex issues. After all it's all about the

border for you and nothing else. There are 50 shades of grey, not all is black and white !

[StephanieC 43]

MODS – Can we start deleting, warning, and banning forum members who continually insult and denigrate other members because of their political beliefs?

I'm not particularly invested either way but pretty sure both sides of this political fence are equally insulting each other. This entire thread is laughable at best.

What's even funnier is when I told someone they were being ridiculous for insulting someone's fiance on this very site, my post was removed and I was warned. This entire thread, however, is nothing but an insult slinging fest with nothing of any real importance being discussed.

[Saffer 27]

Oh... me and my maker? Boo hoo.

The great thing about the US is that I'll no longer have to tolerate people like you in silence, I can finally speak my mind. Apartheid was long gone by the time I arrived in this cesspit of a continent. Can't wait to get out of here and let the natural inhabitants regress to their natural state of anarchy.

[TBoneTX 45,309]

Another off-topic post has been removed.

Everyone is reminded to be mutually respectful.