Inmates, California officials warn prisons crowded

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm disgusted with the crime, but IMO, a person doesn't become any less human because of what they do. It's a lot easier to 'hate' someone for what they did, rather than hating what they did, but hopefully we've progessed in our understanding of humanity.

jeffrey dahmer would be proud of you.

The only person I care about being proud of me showed me this truth. Even though the concept is over 2,000 years old, you demonstrate just how radical it is for us to grasp.

I'm not exactly on the Jesus train, but that concept is what Human Rights is all about. People who can't understand that concept should not be in charge of big decisions. Luckily, in the developed world they usually aren't. (Except some higher up US gov't officials )

Can you give me an 'AMEN', sister? That's what I was hoping to convey - that such truths can be accepted for what they are and are not dependent on a specific religion. Great visionaires throughout history have shown us such truths - MLK, Gandhi, Thomas Jefferson, Buddha, Jesus, etc.

[Fandango 1,439]

Huh? I never watch Oprah, silly woman.

Well you sound like you do

I think most people are disgusted with certain criminals because of the nature of their crimes...not out of some strange fear that one day they are similar is some way.

Love the sinner, hate the sin. That's the difference. I'm disgusted with the crime, but IMO, a person doesn't become any less human because of what they do. It's a lot easier to 'hate' someone for what they did, rather than hating what they did, but hopefully we've progessed in our understanding of humanity.

No? So you'd embrace the man/woman who God forbid raped & killed one of your loved ones?

One can STRIVE to be like Jesus, but the fact is, we're not. We're human and fallable and will never reach that level of perfection. It's all well and good to say 'in theory love the sinner hate the sin' but if it fell a little too close to home...I think you'd struggle to live up to your own expectations here.

[Peikko 1,575]

Until and unless you are personally faced with this particular struggle, why enjoy the thought of 'child molesters' in general being buggered/raped by other prisoners? It's not humane for anyone to be treated in this way in prison, regardless of their crime. To relish this kind of 'retribution' doesn't make you, or anyone that thinks that way better than someone who wishes for prisoners to be housed in 'tollerable' conditions. More so, when one thinks that these 'tollerable conditions make the burden of the prison staff that bit easier to bear and the possibility of redemption and rehabillitation increases.

Many people do forgive those who do commit crimes against themselves and their loved ones as well, it's not a ridiculous notion.

[Fandango 1,439]

Until and unless you are personally faced with this particular struggle, why enjoy the thought of 'child molesters' in general being buggered/raped by other prisoners? It's not humane for anyone to be treated in this way in prison, regardless of their crime. To relish this kind of 'retribution' doesn't make you, or anyone that thinks that way better than someone who wishes for prisoners to be housed in 'tollerable' conditions. More so, when one thinks that these 'tollerable conditions make the burden of the prison staff that bit easier to bear and the possibility of redemption and rehabillitation increases.

Many people do forgive those who do commit crimes against themselves and their loved ones as well, it's not a ridiculous notion.

You get what you give.

You treat people with respect, you get respect.

You shatter a child's world, their life....you do some heinous things to a poor child? Yes, I hope all pedophiles are tortured every day of their lives in prison. I spit at their feet & feel they are the devil incarnate. They will get no humanity from me because they are not human.

I saw on the news once a NEWBORN being raped by the mother's boyfriend. Yeah, let's talk about inhumane conditions.

[Alex+R 0]

Until and unless you are personally faced with this particular struggle, why enjoy the thought of 'child molesters' in general being buggered/raped by other prisoners? It's not humane for anyone to be treated in this way in prison, regardless of their crime. To relish this kind of 'retribution' doesn't make you, or anyone that thinks that way better than someone who wishes for prisoners to be housed in 'tollerable' conditions. More so, when one thinks that these 'tollerable conditions make the burden of the prison staff that bit easier to bear and the possibility of redemption and rehabillitation increases.

Many people do forgive those who do commit crimes against themselves and their loved ones as well, it's not a ridiculous notion.

You get what you give.

You treat people with respect, you get respect.

You shatter a child's world, their life....you do some heinous things to a poor child? Yes, I hope all pedophiles are tortured every day of their lives in prison. I spit at their feet & feel they are the devil incarnate. They will get no humanity from me because they are not human.

I saw on the news once a NEWBORN being raped by the mother's boyfriend. Yeah, let's talk about inhumane conditions.

The thing we have to face is that they ARE human. They are just really really sick humans. Not evil humans, although their sickness makes them do unquestionably evil acts. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be removed from society--I think they should in every case.

But they are human beings with unnatural urges and we have to accept that. They're people with a problem.

Check out the movie "The Woodsman" starring Kevin Bacon. Very interesting.

[Fandango 1,439]

Until and unless you are personally faced with this particular struggle, why enjoy the thought of 'child molesters' in general being buggered/raped by other prisoners? It's not humane for anyone to be treated in this way in prison, regardless of their crime. To relish this kind of 'retribution' doesn't make you, or anyone that thinks that way better than someone who wishes for prisoners to be housed in 'tollerable' conditions. More so, when one thinks that these 'tollerable conditions make the burden of the prison staff that bit easier to bear and the possibility of redemption and rehabillitation increases.

Many people do forgive those who do commit crimes against themselves and their loved ones as well, it's not a ridiculous notion.

You get what you give.

You treat people with respect, you get respect.

You shatter a child's world, their life....you do some heinous things to a poor child? Yes, I hope all pedophiles are tortured every day of their lives in prison. I spit at their feet & feel they are the devil incarnate. They will get no humanity from me because they are not human.

I saw on the news once a NEWBORN being raped by the mother's boyfriend. Yeah, let's talk about inhumane conditions.

The thing we have to face is that they ARE human. They are just really really sick humans. Not evil humans, although their sickness makes them do unquestionably evil acts. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be removed from society--I think they should in every case.

But they are human beings with unnatural urges and we have to accept that. They're people with a problem.

Check out the movie "The Woodsman" starring Kevin Bacon. Very interesting.

Bottom line: I don't really care about their conditions.

And if there's rows of triple bunks in a gym sized room, and some kiddy fiddler wants to claim that as inhumane? I honestly couldn't care one bit for his 'plight'

[Peikko 1,575]

Devil incarnate? Right, so maybe we should employ excorcists or something?

How on earth do you administer torture and expect those who administer it to remain normal? Is it a job you would enjoy? For people to remain humane they have to treat others with humanity, regardless of their personal feelings of what kind of person they are and yes, they are people, not devils.

Platitudes like giving respect and expecting respect work in normal society but the people that perpertrate these crimes are not living and operating in normal society.

However, in a way this is moot. The conditions that are being described are unacceptable to the people who work/maintain the prisons and more than that, the prison service is worried about how this will spill over and affect society at large so these conditions have to change whether any of us think they acceptable or not.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Huh? I never watch Oprah, silly woman.

Well you sound like you do

I think most people are disgusted with certain criminals because of the nature of their crimes...not out of some strange fear that one day they are similar is some way.

Love the sinner, hate the sin. That's the difference. I'm disgusted with the crime, but IMO, a person doesn't become any less human because of what they do. It's a lot easier to 'hate' someone for what they did, rather than hating what they did, but hopefully we've progessed in our understanding of humanity.

No? So you'd embrace the man/woman who God forbid raped & killed one of your loved ones?

One can STRIVE to be like Jesus, but the fact is, we're not. We're human and fallable and will never reach that level of perfection. It's all well and good to say 'in theory love the sinner hate the sin' but if it fell a little too close to home...I think you'd struggle to live up to your own expectations here.

Well following that logic, what's the point of ever doing good when it's inevitable that we will do wrong in some form or another?

It's a matter of accepting a conveyed truth - however difficult it may be to accept that truth doesn't mean that truth is any less true.

[Peikko 1,575]

For the record, I don't think that people who do have these extreme views on punishment are in general horrible people, I just don't understand the rationale for such hatred. Certain types of crime are truly horrible and those identified as perpetrating these crimes should be removed from society. What happens after that is difficult. If it is a sickness then it would be helpful if the sickness could be identified and treated as far as possible and what is learned about the sickness should be used to help prevent further crimes of this sort in my opinion. If it's not a sickness, what is it? It's certainly not 'normal' though.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

rapists and murderers belong in jail. i don't see any point in releasing them as i seriously doubt this "rehabilitation" effort some speak of actually working.

act like an animal, get treated like one. want to be a part of society, then you'll be treated like one then.

[Fandango 1,439]

Devil incarnate? Right, so maybe we should employ excorcists or something?

How on earth do you administer torture and expect those who administer it to remain normal? Is it a job you would enjoy? For people to remain humane they have to treat others with humanity, regardless of their personal feelings of what kind of person they are and yes, they are people, not devils.

Platitudes like giving respect and expecting respect work in normal society but the people that perpertrate these crimes are not living and operating in normal society.

However, in a way this is moot. The conditions that are being described are unacceptable to the people who work/maintain the prisons and more than that, the prison service is worried about how this will spill over and affect society at large so these conditions have to change whether any of us think they acceptable or not.

It was a figure of speech, don't go runnin to Calcutta with that one

Huh? I never watch Oprah, silly woman.

Well you sound like you do

I think most people are disgusted with certain criminals because of the nature of their crimes...not out of some strange fear that one day they are similar is some way.

Love the sinner, hate the sin. That's the difference. I'm disgusted with the crime, but IMO, a person doesn't become any less human because of what they do. It's a lot easier to 'hate' someone for what they did, rather than hating what they did, but hopefully we've progessed in our understanding of humanity.

No? So you'd embrace the man/woman who God forbid raped & killed one of your loved ones?

One can STRIVE to be like Jesus, but the fact is, we're not. We're human and fallable and will never reach that level of perfection. It's all well and good to say 'in theory love the sinner hate the sin' but if it fell a little too close to home...I think you'd struggle to live up to your own expectations here.

Well following that logic, what's the point of ever doing good when it's inevitable that we will do wrong in some form or another?

It's a matter of accepting a conveyed truth - however difficult it may be to accept that truth doesn't mean that truth is any less true.

So answer the question that you just avoided

For the record, I don't think that people who do have these extreme views on punishment are in general horrible people, I just don't understand the rationale for such hatred. Certain types of crime are truly horrible and those identified as perpetrating these crimes should be removed from society. What happens after that is difficult. If it is a sickness then it would be helpful if the sickness could be identified and treated as far as possible and what is learned about the sickness should be used to help prevent further crimes of this sort in my opinion. If it's not a sickness, what is it? It's certainly not 'normal' though.

Many people have sat here and explained the rationale to you, and all you've done is pull words apart and judge it.

If you are searching for understanding, then part of that is actually listening to that which you don't agree with....otherwise, we can just continue this post #######-for-tat

adding: thanks ever so much for thinking that we're not horrible people...how very magnanimous of ya

[one...two...tree 2,762]

So answer the question that you just avoided

You don't have to 'embrace' a murderer and sing kumbaya, but you treat them as human beings even if they act like animals. I know it's a radical concept but I didn't invent it.

[isleta521 5]

rapists and murderers belong in jail. i don't see any point in releasing them as i seriously doubt this "rehabilitation" effort some speak of actually working.

act like an animal, get treated like one. want to be a part of society, then you'll be treated like one then.

Actually, some of my X's relatives were xcons and well, they LIKED being in prison. They were really scary. Most are already back in (where its safe for them ) but yeah, they were scary and acted like animals. I would never trust them in my house. They were always trying to screw someone out of a dime and were always full of BS.

Usually, if you end up in prison - you have already had a long history of crime. You usually dont go to prison on your first or second offense for stealing cars or burglary. This person usually does not care and usually has done crime but was unlucky enough to get caught. This is not a person that can be rehabed but of course I am not a PhD.

Also, IMO , some people are evil and I do believe that some have no guilt or remorse for their actions - and then only if they are caught. Those ones should be locked up FOREVER. They are sick and there is not cure except to stop their breathing.

[Fandango 1,439]

So answer the question that you just avoided

You don't have to 'embrace' a murderer and sing kumbaya, but you treat them as human beings even if they act like animals. I know it's a radical concept but I didn't invent it.

Someone God forbid, killed a loved one of mine, and I'm not going to be worried that they're sleeping in a triple bunk.

radical concept, I know

Edited February 16, 2007 by LisaD

[one...two...tree 2,762]

So answer the question that you just avoided

You don't have to 'embrace' a murderer and sing kumbaya, but you treat them as human beings even if they act like animals. I know it's a radical concept but I didn't invent it.

Someone God forbid, killed a loved one of mine, and I'm not going to be worried that they're sleeping in a triple bunk.

radical concept, I know

Nice sleight of hand, but that wasn't the argument I was responding to.

no one said that they were all convicted of heinous crimes. and my attitude is piss on them. live with it.

~ Charles

IMO they deserve to be raped daily with a splintery broom handle.

~ LisaD

Do you stand by your words, Lisa?