Confederate Flag Prom Photo With Gun-Toting High Schoolers Backfires

[Teddy B 17,252]

All this talk about the south has me hankerin for some good bbq! I just cooked up my first batch of ribs for the season last weekend and Wifey said they were fantastic. I must concur!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Have you never done anything that you knew was wrong, but for whatever reason you did it anyway? I have a list bout a mile long, the majority of the list is from age 13 to age 25, then it kinda peters out cause I started to mature and think of the repercusions before I did things. Most teenagers are not capable of doing that to the point where being reasonable outweighs being cool.

By way of example - burning the flag can be an act of gross ignorance or a legitimate political statement. Generally speaking, it seems to be frowned upon.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

The fairest thing to say is that there's a lot of confusion in the USA over its historic symbology. This is a country that doesn't have a single female presence on its currency and still venerates people like Andrew Jackson who is regarded by many as being responsible for being the architect of native American genocide.

Confusion we are unwilling to make right.

[Teddy B 17,252]

By way of example - burning the flag can be an act of gross ignorance or a legitimate political statement. Generally speaking, it seems to be frowned upon.

True. But for a 17 year old boy trying to impress his friends burning the flag could simply be him/her trying to be cool without actually understanding what he is doing. I think the intent behind the act is what puts it into perspective.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Teddy B

[JohnR! 5,495]

I understand what you're saying to a certain point. The case can be made that many Nazi soldiers who died in battle did so defending their country, according to the story they were told. I am sure there were Nazi solders who believed Germany was under attack and who had no idea of the horrors going on in the concentration camps. I compare Nazis to confederates in that both lost their wars and both should really get over themselves. It's not a judgment on those who fought - sure enough time and history made sure they atoned to their mistakes, so much as it is pointing out how ridiculous it is that American in this day and age look back at the confederate cause with any sympathy. We don't see people making a huge fuss over the union flag to honor the British who fell in the Revolutionary war. It's just a personal take. Time has moved on and people should do the same.

i think the romantic illusion is that we should portray confederates as racist losers and the union soldiers as enlightened moral warriors. i personally think flags are silly, i'm not a fan of nationalism/patriotism what have you..but i don't think such a huge part of our national history can be made so simple. and i really don't think confederate soldiers should be compared to nazis. i have ancestors who fought for both sides, it really depends upon where you're from.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

True. But for a 17 year old boy trying to impress his friends burning the flag could simply be him/her trying to be cool without actually understanding what he is doing. I think the intent behind the act is what puts it into perspective.

Oh sure, but for me it's easier to believe that of a random, spontaneous act than one that looks like it was calculated with deliberate intent.

[decocker 7,198]

The fairest thing to say is that there's a lot of confusion in the USA over its historic symbology. This is a country that doesn't have a single female presence on its currency and still venerates people like Andrew Jackson who is regarded by many as being responsible for being the architect of native American genocide.

ain't that the truth. 4th and 5th grade i went to school at "Stonewall Jackson Elementary". my issue is that i don't like my wars watered down, and war is never simple. the american civil war is certainly no execption, but i really don't want people to believe that the north was 'good' and the south was 'bad' over the slavery issue. too simple..huge changes in society are never so clear cut.

Ask a Southern Civil War enthusiast what the Civil War was really about, and he will probably give you one answer: States' rights. Ask anybody else and they'll probably give you another answer: Slavery. And if you think we're diving into that shitstorm here and now, you're mistaken. But it does reveal something about how most of us perceive the Civil War -- that the North was on the right side of history because they understood the fundamental truth that all men, no matter what color, were created equal.

Why it's Bullshit:

The North was so prejudice that white people acutally discriminated against other white people. So you can bet that life was not a bowl of cherries for nonwhites. And for blacks, the 19th century was nothing but a bowl of #######, no matter where you lived.True, the North had a larger number of abolitionists and progressives, but they also had blatantly racist laws preventing free black people from actually getting rights as citizens. And also, lynch mobs. Which was why it was the North, not the South, that hosted the country's most violent race riot in history. What started out as a protest against the Union's draft policy, ended as a full-on assault on any African-Americans unfortunate enough to exist and get caught. Back in those days, freed blacks were exempt from the draft, probably so they could put more time into putting out their racially motivated house fires. This exemption didn't sit well with poor whites who couldn't afford the $300 to buy their way out of the draft -- and by "didn't sit well" we mean "infuriated to the point of a frenzied rage." By the end of the four-day riot, at least 11 blacks were lynched throughout Manhattan, hundreds more were assaulted and a children's orphanage was burned to the ground. It took no less than 4,000 federal troops fresh from Gettysburg to subdue the insurrection. New York City's black residents were so terrorized by the riots that by 1865, the black population plunged to the lowest it had been in 45 years.And if you're thinking the Draft Riots were one little blip in an otherwise happy and racially harmonic region, try again. Town Line, New York, successfully seceded from the Union altogether during the war and were not readmitted to the nation until ... no joke, 1946.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19223_6-civil-war-myths-everyone-believes-that-are-total-b.s..html

[Teddy B 17,252]

Oh sure, but for me it's easier to believe that of a random, spontaneous act than one that looks like it was calculated with deliberate intent.

But the intent behind the pic is not known, is it? Like B_J said, they could very well be the next generation of the KKK for all we know, but to jump to that conclusion without actually knowing would be unfair.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

It's interesting that there is no excuse for ignorance.

But let somebody else say that there is no excuse for rioting and see what the response is.

You know I love you like a play cousin, but this is just wrong. Nor Janelle or I have said rioting is excusable. We've said you need to look at the root cause for the riots and condemn that as well as the riots themselves. Because there was a lot of hoopla for personal property, but not one piece of empathy for Gray. A man lost his life to a bunch of (we're finding out) bad cops, where the police brutality has been going on for years, but let's focus on the CVS and the police car that got totaled, because that's WAY more important than Freddie Gray.

You checked me a while back about my comments about conservatives. I did the right thing and admitted my misstep to you. I'm extending you the same courtesy. If Janelle made a comment saying rioting is excusable, I'll retract my statement.

[decocker 7,198]

I understand what you're saying to a certain point. The case can be made that many Nazi soldiers who died in battle did so defending their country, according to the story they were told. I am sure there were Nazi solders who believed Germany was under attack and who had no idea of the horrors going on in the concentration camps. I compare Nazis to confederates in that both lost their wars and both should really get over themselves. It's not a judgment on those who fought - sure enough time and history made sure they atoned to their mistakes, so much as it is pointing out how ridiculous it is that American in this day and age look back at the confederate cause with any sympathy. We don't see people making a huge fuss over the union flag to honor the British who fell in the Revolutionary war. It's just a personal take. Time has moved on and people should do the same.

you have to remember we're looking back on all these wars with very narrow, non comprehensive, rose colored glasses. i'm not excusing good ol boys who use the confederate flag as a blankie.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

But the intent behind the pic is not known, is it? Like B_J said, they could very well be the next generation of the KKK for all we know, but to jump to that conclusion without actually knowing would be unfair.

Of course. I'm just saying I see a difference between a spontaneous act and one that is clearly deliberate. It encourages an interpretation of the event, regardless of the perpetrators intent.

[Teddy B 17,252]

I think this quote in the op sums it up quite well. You have a bunch of naive young kids being egged on by idiotic parents who should know better.

She blamed other parents, who were encouraging the kids and taking the photos with the flag at the prom, which was held on Saturday in Denver.

“I think in their immaturity they kind of think it is a cowboy thing, but to have parents feed into it and support it is really upsetting to me,” she said.

[B_J 2,752]

You know I love you like a play cousin, but this is just wrong. Nor Janelle or I have said rioting is excusable. We've said you need to look at the root cause for the riots and condemn that as well as the riots themselves. Because there was a lot of hoopla for personal property, but not one piece of empathy for Gray. A man lost his life to a bunch of (we're finding out) bad cops, where the police brutality has been going on for years, but let's focus on the CVS and the police car that got totaled, because that's WAY more important than Freddie Gray.

You checked me a while back about my comments about conservatives. I did the right thing and admitted my misstep to you. I'm extending you the same courtesy. If Janelle made a comment saying rioting is excusable, I'll retract my statement.

I'm not saying anybody said rioting is excusable; I understand that there is possibly a lot more to the story.

However, it doesn't make sense to see riots and want to look at the reasons behind it; and then make a statement like, "there is not excuse for ignorance" when you see a picture. Why be understanding in one instance but not in the other?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

ain't that the truth. 4th and 5th grade i went to school at "Stonewall Jackson Elementary". my issue is that i don't like my wars watered down, and war is never simple. the american civil war is certainly no execption, but i really don't want people to believe that the north was 'good' and the south was 'bad' over the slavery issue. too simple..huge changes in society are never so clear cut.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19223_6-civil-war-myths-everyone-believes-that-are-total-b.s..html

No it isn't, but the same is true of WW2. You don't generally hear about German soldiers who fought to defend their homes and country, as opposed to people who believed in the nazi party.

The USA no doubt has a more nuanced view of the civil war since Americans were on both sides.

The problem I think with the confederate flag is that some people use it to deliberately invite controversy, regardless of what it originally stood for and what it means to that person.

Recognising its place in American history is fine, using it for making a spurious political statement under the guide of libertarianism, for example, not so much.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Venkman

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I'm not saying anybody said rioting is excusable; I understand that there is possibly a lot more to the story.

However, it doesn't make sense to see riots and want to look at the reasons behind it; and then make a statement like, "there is not excuse for ignorance" when you see a picture. Why be understanding in one instance but not in the other?

I'll take a stab at this for my sista on here:

I think Janelle is implying the kids KNEW the history behind the flag and chose still to post the pic. Now, it can be argued(as seen here) the kids didn't look at the slavery aspect and just love the South. This might very well be the case. As Val said, it's possible this might very well be the case. So, it can go both ways. Personally, I don't know what their intentions were, so without more context, I can't say if it was kids having fun or maybe a more sinister meaning.

If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.