Did you know that SO from the Middle East

[Ban Hammer 13,283]

Ok, I guess I see what you're saying. My comments have been toward the concept and not necessarily the practice. Neither my husband or I have flown El Al, so I am commenting on racial profiling in general, not on El Al's implementation of its policy.

so is this profiling justified or not by el al?

[peezey 0]

Ok, I have a meeting to go to. It was not my intention to begin a battle. I'm just curious as to why certain postures are taken at some times and not at others, and how much of the agreement is supported by secondhand opinion or by first hand experience. I'm also curious as to how non-Arabs see the experience of Arab Muslims in comparison to those who are actually perceived by authorities to be Arab and Muslim. Or that of non-Jews to Jews, for that matter.

When has there been a difference in postures? Are you saying that Arabs and Muslims who are profiled are in less of a position to complain about this kind of tactic than someone who is perceived by the authorties to be an Arab/Muslim?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I admit that I don't see the world as many of you do because I'm not like most of you. My life experience is not like that of most of you. I just see patterns in interactions, and I'm interested in their dynamics, so I ask questions about them. One of the things I'm interested in is how any comment about Israel suddenly becomes an opportunity to become very one-sided re the issue and how authority re the issue is established so that one side is automatically deemed the pc one.

We have a few Jews here who have tried to get a word in, and are more often than not, shut down. Frankly, I hear most of you nadder on all day. It would be a refreshing change to have a discussion about the subject of the Jewish/Israeli/Arab/Muslim interaction, even as it arises out of a discussion about how the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is profiling your SOs, without, and I will be politically incorrect here, a bunch of western non-Arab folks interjecting their second-hand and anecdotal opinions and detouring the discussion.

No, I don't know who all the Arabs and/or born Muslims are on who post here. Make yourself known. I do know that most of the commentary about Arabs and Muslims in the media and everywhere in the west is non-Arabs, non-Jews and non-Muslims talking about us and our experiences as if they know so much, and, well, they don't. The same is true here.

Listen and let someone else have something to say for a change, is what I'm saying. You might learn something.

Now, if I've offended anyone, I'm not surprised. It's terribly easy to do.

Edited February 15, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Jenn! 918]

Well, many of us don't like to hear you nadder on all day either. Comes with the territory.

Maybe you should start an all-Arab board if you don't want to hear non-Arab commentary. Find your refreshment elsewhere.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Well, many of us don't like to hear you nadder on all day either. Comes with the territory.

Maybe you should start an all-Arab board if you don't want to hear non-Arab commentary. Find your refreshment elsewhere.

I didn't say I didn't want to hear it. I said I wanted to know what the foundation for the overly one-sided views are since most of you are commenting on something you have not experienced first hand. I also said it would be nice to have other views expressed. Nothing wrong with either of those.

Edited February 15, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Ban Hammer 13,283]

Well, many of us don't like to hear you nadder on all day either. Comes with the territory.

Maybe you should start an all-Arab board if you don't want to hear non-Arab commentary. Find your refreshment elsewhere.

and just who is this many that you speak for?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I don't want a fight here. We've had enough of that. I'm looking for some understanding.

[Bosco 1]

Well, many of us don't like to hear you nadder on all day either. Comes with the territory.

Maybe you should start an all-Arab board if you don't want to hear non-Arab commentary. Find your refreshment elsewhere.

I didn't say I didn't want to hear it. I said I wanted to know what the foundation for the overly one-sided views are since most of you are commenting on something you have not experienced first hand. I also said it would be nice to have other views expressed. Nothing wrong with either of those.

Experienced what first hand? What exactly is it that you are referring to?

[peezey 0]

I didn't say I didn't want to hear it. I said I wanted to know what the foundation for the overly one-sided views are since most of you are commenting on something you have not experienced first hand. I also said it would be nice to have other views expressed. Nothing wrong with either of those.

Why do you continue to assert that most of us don't have first-hand experience? You do realize that being married to an arab/muslim you become a suspect, right? I learned this after being married for a couple months and went to my AOS interview. I have never been so humilated in all my life. Any time I have an opinion about MENA on any politics board or in any discussion (outside this board), I am immediately poo-pooed because I'm "biased" or otherwise clouded in what "really" goes on in the US and the world. Or I'm a terrorist sympathizer. Or I'm a traitor. Oh, oh, even the other day I was accused of having trained in a "jihadist camp"!! Excellent!

Certainly my experience is not as palpable as what can and does happen to an arab or a perceived arab. But I don't speak from second hand experience from some nebulous Ivory Tower-type position.

What are you suggesting, then? The jews posting here should be listened to and never responded to? What, exactly, would be the point of that? Discussion spurs learning. Reading something and taking it as fact and never questioning or learning others' experience only creates robots.

Edited February 15, 2007 by peezey

[Sofiyya 1,687]

If there was discussion, that would be a breakthru. And, no, I can't equate the experience to being married to an Arab/Muslim to being an Arab/Muslim, because being Arab/Muslim is not an ancillary experience, as is being married to one. I'm not saying your humilation is not real and has no place in the equation. I'm saying it's not something that derives from your own being. It is something you choose and something you can escape from.

[peezey 0]

If there was discussion, that would be a breakthru. And, no, I can't equate the experience to being married to an Arab/Muslim to being an Arab/Muslim, because being Arab/Muslim is not an ancillary experience, as is being married to one. I'm not saying your humilation is not real and has no place in the equation. I'm saying it's not something that derives from your own being. It is something you choose and something you can escape from.

No one said it was equitable. In fact, I said it is not as palpable. So now you are saying being an arab/muslim is actually a state of victimhood? I do not consider my husband someone I can "escape" from, so while I understand the broad meaning of what you are saying, and never will claim to know what it is to walk in the shoes of a person society automatically deems questionable before words are spoken, you are discounting many of us here who feel very much a part of a culture that is not widely accepted in the US, whether through our extended families, our work, our travels, our studies.

I truly do not understand what you are getting at.

Edited February 15, 2007 by peezey

[Sofiyya 1,687]

No, I'm escuing victimhood. I have from the beginning.

What I'm getting at has been lost, no doubt. I appreciate that you are trying to understand it. I'm not discounting anyone as I'm wondering why it's been difficult to allow more viewpoints to expand before they are shut down, and they are usually shut down because of preconceived notions. I asked what is the basis upon which these preconceived notions are formed? First hand experience is a valuable component of that.

[Bosco 1]

If there was discussion, that would be a breakthru. And, no, I can't equate the experience to being married to an Arab/Muslim to being an Arab/Muslim, because being Arab/Muslim is not an ancillary experience, as is being married to one. I'm not saying your humilation is not real and has no place in the equation. I'm saying it's not something that derives from your own being. It is something you choose and something you can escape from.

There cannot be a discussion because you have dismissed anyone who is non Arab or not born Muslim as having inferior and experience lacking opinions, of being incapable of real understanding. However, I think it is presumptous for you to think that your voice is anything more just one individual's opinion or that it is somehow representative of a broader Arab/Muslim experience. I know more than one Arab Muslim who has read this board and come to the conclusion that they cannot relate to your views at all, and a few have gone as far to question if you are who you say you are. My point being, no one is a voice for a race/religion/etc. and even people of the same race/religion can have very different life experiences and perspectives.

[Bosco 1]

No, I'm escuing victimhood. I have from the beginning.

What I'm getting at has been lost, no doubt. I appreciate that you are trying to understand it. I'm not discounting anyone as I'm wondering why it's been difficult to allow more viewpoints to expand before they are shut down, and they are usually shut down because of preconceived notions. I asked what is the basis upon which these preconceived notions are formed? First hand experience is a valuable component of that.

Whose voices have been shut down? None of can stop another person from posting. If anyone doesn't speak up, it is by choice or a lack of conviction.

[peezey 0]

No, I'm escuing victimhood. I have from the beginning.

What I'm getting at has been lost, no doubt. I appreciate that you are trying to understand it. I'm not discounting anyone as I'm wondering why it's been difficult to allow more viewpoints to expand before they are shut down, and they are usually shut down because of preconceived notions. I asked what is the basis upon which these preconceived notions are formed? First hand experience is a valuable component of that.

I don't see debate and discussion as shutting people down. It's clear everyone here is not necessarily used to or interested in engaging in discussion, so discussion often ends because of that. I think it's unfair to say that a discussion shuts down because some that are more vigorous in continuing a discussion are the last heard because others simply go away.