Enron and The Rolling Blackouts in California

[one...two...tree 2,762]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANvV0j1xy5Y

For those in favor of deregulation... worth watching.

[peejay 327]

For those in favor of deregulation... worth watching.

I'm in favor of free electricity. It should be a basic human right.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

For those in favor of deregulation... worth watching.

I'm in favor of free electricity. It should be a basic human right.

I'm not sure I follow you. Obviously, the production, harnessing and distribution of electricity costs money. If it was completely subsidized by the gov't. there would be no monetary incentive for energy conservation - that would be disasterous when it comes to businesses.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

scumbags

[one...two...tree 2,762]

scumbags

Free market capitalists would call them 'heroes'. I have yet to see any demonstration where deregulation worked to our benefit.

[Heracles 417]

Free market capitalists would call them 'heroes'. I have yet to see any demonstration where deregulation worked to our benefit.

So what are you suggesting? Should it be government run?

Why not set KPI's for the company with appropriate penalties for the company's upper management for any breaches? Liberals seem to hate companies and their management yet never ever ask their Democrat buddies to implement tough penalties for corporate fraud..

PS seems to work well in other states..

Edited February 13, 2007 by Infidel

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Free market capitalists would call them 'heroes'. I have yet to see any demonstration where deregulation worked to our benefit.

So what are you suggesting? Should it be government run?

Why not set KPI's for the company with appropriate penalties for the company's upper management for any breaches? Liberals seem to hate companies and their management yet never ever ask their Democrat buddies to implement tough penalties for corporate fraud..

PS seems to work well in other states..

Actually free market capitalism is liberal economics (see erekose for an explanation). When it comes to electricity, a neccessity in today's world for most people, I'd say 'yes', have power plants publicly owned and operated. What's the advantage of being privately owned and operated?

[peejay 327]

For those in favor of deregulation... worth watching.

I'm in favor of free electricity. It should be a basic human right.

I'm not sure I follow you. Obviously, the production, harnessing and distribution of electricity costs money. If it was completely subsidized by the gov't. there would be no monetary incentive for energy conservation - that would be disasterous when it comes to businesses.

Of course I'm sure you realized I was joking.

Seriously...there should be rules and regulations to protect the public from abuses by corporations. As well as regulators to ensure compliance. Manipulating markets is unethical, immoral, and should be illegal. The big question is to what degree should regulation allow free markets while protecting the public.

Clearly what Enron did was not in the public interest and manipulating the market should be illegal. The crooks should go to jail and get fines provided there are laws on the books to prosecute with.

I saw what happened when the Savings and Loan industry was deregulated in the 1980's and it was a disaster for the taxpayer to the tune of $1/2 trillion to bail out failed S & L institutions looted by the crooks running them with taxpayer guaranteed assets. A lot of these creeps got off with very little punishment and some with none.

As you can see...I do not believe in 100% free markets without restraints. It has proven to be foolish public policy.

[Heracles 417]

Actually free market capitalism is liberal economics (see erekose for an explanation). When it comes to electricity, a neccessity in today's world for most people, I'd say 'yes', have power plants publicly owned and operated. What's the advantage of being privately owned and operated?

Dominion power is an excellent company here in Virginia.

There are also quite a few US companies which operate in the state of Victoria in Australia with great success.. Why, because they have set government KPI's to meet..

[Heracles 417]

I saw what happened when the Savings and Loan industry was deregulated in the 1980's and it was a disaster for the taxpayer to the tune of $1/2 trillion to bail out failed S & L institutions looted by the crooks running them with taxpayer guaranteed assets. A lot of these creeps got off with very little punishment and some with none.

That is the problem in the US. Corporate crooks are never ever punished appropriately..

The free market is not to blame as it has delivered some of the highest standard of living amongst the world's top countries..

Edited February 14, 2007 by Infidel

[choji 0]

First of all, this is not new, these tapes have been in the public domain for at least a couple of years.

Nevertheless, the mindset behind these shenanigans is breathtakingly brutal and inhumane.

But - this has nothing to do with deragulation alone.

A similar mindset can be found in other entities and for other purposes too - even government-run ones.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

For those in favor of deregulation... worth watching.

I'm in favor of free electricity. It should be a basic human right.

I'm not sure I follow you. Obviously, the production, harnessing and distribution of electricity costs money. If it was completely subsidized by the gov't. there would be no monetary incentive for energy conservation - that would be disasterous when it comes to businesses.

Of course I'm sure you realized I was joking.

Seriously...there should be rules and regulations to protect the public from abuses by corporations. As well as regulators to ensure compliance. Manipulating markets is unethical, immoral, and should be illegal. The big question is to what degree should regulation allow free markets while protecting the public.

Clearly what Enron did was not in the public interest and manipulating the market should be illegal. The crooks should go to jail and get fines provided there are laws on the books to prosecute with.

I saw what happened when the Savings and Loan industry was deregulated in the 1980's and it was a disaster for the taxpayer to the tune of $1/2 trillion to bail out failed S & L institutions looted by the crooks running them with taxpayer guaranteed assets. A lot of these creeps got off with very little punishment and some with none.

As you can see...I do not believe in 100% free markets without restraints. It has proven to be foolish public policy.

Yes, I remember the S&L scandal too. It was unfortunate for Gov. Gray Davis to have been the scapegoat for the $30 billion the power shortages cost the state of California. The recall petition would have never succeeded without it.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

First of all, this is not new, these tapes have been in the public domain for at least a couple of years.

Nevertheless, the mindset behind these shenanigans is breathtakingly brutal and inhumane.

But - this has nothing to do with deragulation alone.

A similar mindset can be found in other entities and for other purposes too - even government-run ones.

What else can you attribute it to? I'd say it's the nature of the beast - when a profit motive is there, that beast will find every loophole to exploit, without any oversight - no checks and balances. FERC (Federal Energy Regulatory Commission) was headed by a crony that Dubbya put there.

[Jasman0717 9]

For those in favor of deregulation... worth watching.

I'm in favor of free electricity. It should be a basic human right.

I pass out every time I get my bill

[almaty 19]

in kazakhstan it is in the bill of rights...all services....telephone..natural gas and electricity..plus repairs are $25.. a month until you retire then $10...they tried to raise them once and almost had a revolt..