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Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Mexico
Timeline
Posted

Could someone please help me understand the language of this? I think it is a little hard to understand in the description of involuntary manslaughter, and I copied it exactly from the publication.

What I would like to hear an opinion about is this: 9 years ago My husband was driving his family's dumptruck (at the age of 19) slightly fast for the weight of the truck (though well within the "speed of traffic") through an area with no posted speed limits (in mexico, I've never seen one), when a woman suddenly changed course without looking and stepped in front of his truck. Given his speed and weight, he could not stop in time. There was no alternative route... oncoming traffic or a drop off. The woman did not make use of an available pedestrian bridge a few yards away. I do not think my husband was driving recklessly, and he made every available effort to stop his truck, but it was impossible. He definitly did not "intend" to do the woman harm.

The woman regretably died as a result of this accident, and my husband is charged with "involuntary manslaughter". What I am trying to understand is the language below...does my husband need to demonstrate that he was not reckless, OR is there some exception with "vehicular manslaughter" either in or against his favor. Thanks anyone who knows something about this, or who can direct me to a site that can.

Copied from the U.S. Department of state Foreign Affairs Manual Volume 9 - Visas

9 FAM 40.21 (A) Notes

9 FAM 40.21 (a) N2.2 Defining "Moral Turpitude"

... The most common elements involving moral turpitude are:

(1) Fraud

(2) Larceny; and

(3) Intent to harm persons or thing.

9 FAM 40.21(a) N2.3 Common Crimes Involving Moral Turpitude

9 FAM 40.21(a) N2.3-3 Crimes Committed Against Person, Family Relationship, and Sexual Morality

a. Crimes committed against the person, family relationship, and sexual morality, which constitute moral turpitude as it relates to visa issuance, include:

(10) Manslaughter:

(B) Involuntary, where the statute requires proof of recklessness, which is defined as the awareness and conscious disregard of a substantial and unjustified risk which constitutes a gross deviation from the standard that a reasonable person would observe in the situation. A conviction for the statutory offense of vehicular homicide or other involuntary manslaughter only requires a showing of negligence will not involve moral turpitude even if it appears the defendant in fact acted recklessly.

b. Crimes committed against the person, family relationship, and sexual morality, which do not involve moral turpitude include:

(6) Involuntary manslaughter (when killing is not the result of recklessness)

DCF

4-8-2005 ..........Civil Wedding

5-11-2005..........I-130 delivered by a friend to consulate in Mexico City (REFUSED)

6-1-2005 ...........I-130 hand delivered to consulate in Mexico City by us

6-8-2005 ..........I-130 approved

6-25-2005..........Church Wedding in Oaxaca, Mexico

9-13-2006..........Get email reply that says, "Your Packet 3 was mailed today" (never arrives)

1-3-2006............I download and mail Packet 3 forms

1-24-2006..........Forms "qualified" in CDJ

3.31.2006...........Received email from CDJ that appointment date = May 3rd

5.3.2006............Interview in CDJ - Visa denied

5.4.2006............Submit I-601 waiver of inadmissablity at consulate in CDJ

5.6.2006.............Sent email to my congressman John Barrow (GA) asking for help.

5.8.2006............My mom sends letter to Senator Bob Graham (FL).

11/2006...I have to leave my husband in Mexico to care for my daughter

11/2006 ...I send a better Hardship Letter and more supporting documentation.

12/2006.............Sent letter to my congressman Tom Price (GA) asking for help.

1/2007...Congressman Price's office receives notice that application had been approved several months previously. 2nd interview set for 6/1/07

6/1/2007...Second interview, VISA APPROVED

6/3/2007...We are reunited in Atlanta after 7 months of separation

09/01/2010..N-400 sent

9/11/2010...Still madly in love, & the visa nightmare is now just a dramatic episode in our ongoing Love Story.

Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Colombia
Timeline
Posted

I see why you are confused. The wording is pretty strange. I get the impression that you have nothing to worry about.

10 Nov mailed I 129F to TSC

16 Nov 29 Nov Notice date

3 Dec Received NOA 1

3 Jan 05 Please I just want to be touched

3 may 05 NOA2 E mail notification

7 May 05 Mail NOA2

11 May 05 sent petition to Bogota

18 May Packet 3 arrived

19 May Checklist taken to consulate

31 May Packet 4 delivered

29 June visa granted

1 July Visa delivered

Sometime in July Lucero came to US

13 Sept 05 Married

1 Nov 05 -USCIS recieved 485 and EAD

13 December RFE stupid things I should have included Returned very quickly

27 March received bio letter for New Orleans

7 Apr_06 Bio done in New Orleans

20 April 06 Touched on all applications

21 April Email received EAD approved

27 Apr Received EAD card

30 May 2006 Received appointment letter for JaX on 13 July 2006

13 July Interview successful approved

20 July Received green card

30 June 08 Sent I751 to remove conditions

25 July 08 Application returned erroneously incorrect fee

27 July mailed new application with separate checks

15 Sept 08 Application returned erroneously K2 not within 90 day timeframe

17 Sept Mailed 3rd application with mountains of proof of error copied Senator Mel Martinez

09 October 4th application package sent. This time they said the app signature page was a copy

10 Oct Sent package again 4th time.

25 Oct Received another NOA for Wife with $625 for the amount with one year extension

30 Oct 2008 Still nothing for step daughter. Checks still haven't cleared the bank

24 November Checks finally cleared the bank

February biometrics for wife Nothing for daughter.

Posted
I see why you are confused. The wording is pretty strange. I get the impression that you have nothing to worry about.

I agree but if you are unsure maybe a consulation with an immigration attorney might help.

usa_fl_sm_nwm.gifphilippines_fl_md_clr.gif

United States & Republic of the Philippines

"Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid." John Wayne

Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Mexico
Timeline
Posted

Yes, he was convicted of "involuntary manslaughter" not just charged, sorry about that. He was sentenced to I think 18 month in jail, but did not have to serve it...I believe he was released "bajo confiansa" I think I have that right, which is perhaps the same as "on bond"? He had to pay a series of fees, and had to check in every month. Something like parole, I suppose.

And yes, this happened in Mexico. He is Mexican.

He quit driving trucks after that, and started working in the hotel business. He doesn't drink, (never has) he doesn't fight, he's wonderful and sweet and gentle. It was a terrible accident that happened 9 years ago. I hope they take that into consideration.

DCF

4-8-2005 ..........Civil Wedding

5-11-2005..........I-130 delivered by a friend to consulate in Mexico City (REFUSED)

6-1-2005 ...........I-130 hand delivered to consulate in Mexico City by us

6-8-2005 ..........I-130 approved

6-25-2005..........Church Wedding in Oaxaca, Mexico

9-13-2006..........Get email reply that says, "Your Packet 3 was mailed today" (never arrives)

1-3-2006............I download and mail Packet 3 forms

1-24-2006..........Forms "qualified" in CDJ

3.31.2006...........Received email from CDJ that appointment date = May 3rd

5.3.2006............Interview in CDJ - Visa denied

5.4.2006............Submit I-601 waiver of inadmissablity at consulate in CDJ

5.6.2006.............Sent email to my congressman John Barrow (GA) asking for help.

5.8.2006............My mom sends letter to Senator Bob Graham (FL).

11/2006...I have to leave my husband in Mexico to care for my daughter

11/2006 ...I send a better Hardship Letter and more supporting documentation.

12/2006.............Sent letter to my congressman Tom Price (GA) asking for help.

1/2007...Congressman Price's office receives notice that application had been approved several months previously. 2nd interview set for 6/1/07

6/1/2007...Second interview, VISA APPROVED

6/3/2007...We are reunited in Atlanta after 7 months of separation

09/01/2010..N-400 sent

9/11/2010...Still madly in love, & the visa nightmare is now just a dramatic episode in our ongoing Love Story.

Posted (edited)
(10) Manslaughter:

( a) Involuntary, where the statute requires proof of recklessness, which is defined as the awareness and conscious disregard of a substantial and unjustified risk which constitutes a gross deviation from the standard that a reasonable person would observe in the situation. A conviction for the statutory offense of vehicular homicide or other involuntary manslaughter only requires a showing of negligence will not involve moral turpitude even if it appears the defendant in fact acted recklessly.

The way I read the above, is that it is in two parts. The second part being....A conviction of vehicular homicide or other involuntary manslaughter, that is only negligence by the stature, is not a crime of moral turpitude. That is then backed up by.......

b. Crimes committed against the person, family relationship, or sexual morality which do not involve moral turpitude include:

(6) Involuntary manslaughter (when killing is not the result of recklessness);

The key is the stature.....if the involutary manslaughter was a result of recklessness or of negligence. Recklessness would result in being a crime of moral turpitude where as negligence would not.

The key elements of moral turpitude are

(1) Fraud; (2) Larceny; and (3) Intent to harm persons or thing.

It may pay to ask an immigration lawyer for peace of mind but the way I read it.....it LOOKS like you will be ok in this regard.

Edited by aussiewench

You can find me on FBI

An overview of Security Name Checks And Administrative Review at Service Center, NVC & Consulate levels.

Detailed Review USCIS Alien Security Checks

fb2fc244.gif72c97806.gif4d488a91.gif

11324375801ij.gif

View Timeline HERE

I am but a wench not a lawyer. My advice and opinion is just that. I read, I research, I learn.

Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Colombia
Timeline
Posted

It's really sad that your husband had to serve 18 months in a Mexican prison for, what amounts to an accident. I don't think your worry is what the embassy will do, but rather what kind of scars he carries from his internment. This is a horrible shame.

I hate to be the bad guy here but there is a question that must be asked.

Are you sure he is shooting straight with you? I don't know how things work in Mexico so I won't go too far but this story would be fishy in America.

10 Nov mailed I 129F to TSC

16 Nov 29 Nov Notice date

3 Dec Received NOA 1

3 Jan 05 Please I just want to be touched

3 may 05 NOA2 E mail notification

7 May 05 Mail NOA2

11 May 05 sent petition to Bogota

18 May Packet 3 arrived

19 May Checklist taken to consulate

31 May Packet 4 delivered

29 June visa granted

1 July Visa delivered

Sometime in July Lucero came to US

13 Sept 05 Married

1 Nov 05 -USCIS recieved 485 and EAD

13 December RFE stupid things I should have included Returned very quickly

27 March received bio letter for New Orleans

7 Apr_06 Bio done in New Orleans

20 April 06 Touched on all applications

21 April Email received EAD approved

27 Apr Received EAD card

30 May 2006 Received appointment letter for JaX on 13 July 2006

13 July Interview successful approved

20 July Received green card

30 June 08 Sent I751 to remove conditions

25 July 08 Application returned erroneously incorrect fee

27 July mailed new application with separate checks

15 Sept 08 Application returned erroneously K2 not within 90 day timeframe

17 Sept Mailed 3rd application with mountains of proof of error copied Senator Mel Martinez

09 October 4th application package sent. This time they said the app signature page was a copy

10 Oct Sent package again 4th time.

25 Oct Received another NOA for Wife with $625 for the amount with one year extension

30 Oct 2008 Still nothing for step daughter. Checks still haven't cleared the bank

24 November Checks finally cleared the bank

February biometrics for wife Nothing for daughter.

Posted
It's really sad that your husband had to serve 18 months in a Mexican prison for, what amounts to an accident. I don't think your worry is what the embassy will do, but rather what kind of scars he carries from his internment. This is a horrible shame.

He never had to serve the sentence.....was released on a bond

He was sentenced to I think 18 month in jail, but did not have to serve it...I believe he was released "bajo confiansa" I think I have that right, which is perhaps the same as "on bond"?

You can find me on FBI

An overview of Security Name Checks And Administrative Review at Service Center, NVC & Consulate levels.

Detailed Review USCIS Alien Security Checks

fb2fc244.gif72c97806.gif4d488a91.gif

11324375801ij.gif

View Timeline HERE

I am but a wench not a lawyer. My advice and opinion is just that. I read, I research, I learn.

Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Mexico
Timeline
Posted
It's really sad that your husband had to serve 18 months in a Mexican prison for, what amounts to an accident. I don't think your worry is what the embassy will do, but rather what kind of scars he carries from his internment. This is a horrible shame.

I hate to be the bad guy here but there is a question that must be asked.

Are you sure he is shooting straight with you? I don't know how things work in Mexico so I won't go too far but this story would be fishy in America.

Am I SURE he's shooting STRAIGHT??? VAYA PREGUNTA!!

Yes. There is a newspaper clipping and a 500 page court record to describe to me in extreme detail every aspect of this accident. And he didn't have to go to jail, so he is only scarred by the results of this accident...

As for how things work in Mexico... well, you are guilty until proven innocent for starters! Anyone can accuse you for anything, and if you don't have enough money on you to bribe the police from hauling you away, they will haul you away, until your family can come up with the money to bail you out, plus a little "extra" for the jailers who can take as long as they want to process your paperwork.

In car accidents, especially truck accidents, the driver is always guilty when a death results... If a person JUMPS in front of your truck with the intention of commiting suicide, the driver is detained until the situation is worked out... which usually means compensating the family of the person who commited suicide.

Mexico is a very very different place from the US.

DCF

4-8-2005 ..........Civil Wedding

5-11-2005..........I-130 delivered by a friend to consulate in Mexico City (REFUSED)

6-1-2005 ...........I-130 hand delivered to consulate in Mexico City by us

6-8-2005 ..........I-130 approved

6-25-2005..........Church Wedding in Oaxaca, Mexico

9-13-2006..........Get email reply that says, "Your Packet 3 was mailed today" (never arrives)

1-3-2006............I download and mail Packet 3 forms

1-24-2006..........Forms "qualified" in CDJ

3.31.2006...........Received email from CDJ that appointment date = May 3rd

5.3.2006............Interview in CDJ - Visa denied

5.4.2006............Submit I-601 waiver of inadmissablity at consulate in CDJ

5.6.2006.............Sent email to my congressman John Barrow (GA) asking for help.

5.8.2006............My mom sends letter to Senator Bob Graham (FL).

11/2006...I have to leave my husband in Mexico to care for my daughter

11/2006 ...I send a better Hardship Letter and more supporting documentation.

12/2006.............Sent letter to my congressman Tom Price (GA) asking for help.

1/2007...Congressman Price's office receives notice that application had been approved several months previously. 2nd interview set for 6/1/07

6/1/2007...Second interview, VISA APPROVED

6/3/2007...We are reunited in Atlanta after 7 months of separation

09/01/2010..N-400 sent

9/11/2010...Still madly in love, & the visa nightmare is now just a dramatic episode in our ongoing Love Story.

Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Mexico
Timeline
Posted
It may pay to ask an immigration lawyer for peace of mind but the way I read it.....it LOOKS like you will be ok in this regard.

Yes, it LOOKS that way to me too, but I wanted a second opinion to make sure I wasn't clouded by wishing it so. Thanks.

DCF

4-8-2005 ..........Civil Wedding

5-11-2005..........I-130 delivered by a friend to consulate in Mexico City (REFUSED)

6-1-2005 ...........I-130 hand delivered to consulate in Mexico City by us

6-8-2005 ..........I-130 approved

6-25-2005..........Church Wedding in Oaxaca, Mexico

9-13-2006..........Get email reply that says, "Your Packet 3 was mailed today" (never arrives)

1-3-2006............I download and mail Packet 3 forms

1-24-2006..........Forms "qualified" in CDJ

3.31.2006...........Received email from CDJ that appointment date = May 3rd

5.3.2006............Interview in CDJ - Visa denied

5.4.2006............Submit I-601 waiver of inadmissablity at consulate in CDJ

5.6.2006.............Sent email to my congressman John Barrow (GA) asking for help.

5.8.2006............My mom sends letter to Senator Bob Graham (FL).

11/2006...I have to leave my husband in Mexico to care for my daughter

11/2006 ...I send a better Hardship Letter and more supporting documentation.

12/2006.............Sent letter to my congressman Tom Price (GA) asking for help.

1/2007...Congressman Price's office receives notice that application had been approved several months previously. 2nd interview set for 6/1/07

6/1/2007...Second interview, VISA APPROVED

6/3/2007...We are reunited in Atlanta after 7 months of separation

09/01/2010..N-400 sent

9/11/2010...Still madly in love, & the visa nightmare is now just a dramatic episode in our ongoing Love Story.

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

An interesting read..............Just out of interest, what happens if it is the American Citizen who has served time for such a crime? Would it affect the visa application of the spouce or fiance(e)?

I feel Good...........like the moon is shining just for me!

N-400 Naturalization Timeline

Eligible in November 2012

 
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