Multiple traffic tickets - real experiences anyone?

[JimmyHou 611]

That's not correct, you can google it and you will hear people/lawyers say both sides. But here is why I believe you don't need to disclose it, and I personally wouldn't. The U.S. Government is asking you the question, and states won't report that information to the U.S. government. Even counties sometimes don't share with other counties. But when it's a felony or misdemeanor everyone knows about it. If you get a restraining order, are arrested, or even some misdemeanors will show up nationally. They aren't going to care about something they don't monitor to begin with. And then there's the fact that I had an agent at a USCIS office agree with me that they didn't care about traffic violations during an interview. Either way they are not going to cause any problems, even if you get so many speeding tickets you lose your license. Now if you get arrested for driving with out a license then maybe worry.

This is another reason I wouldn't state it, you're just going to confuse them.

That is an opinion, not a fact supported by the instructions. It is an opinion supported by some interview experiences and contradicted by others.

Why are we trying to guess what they want or don't want? There are lots of cases here, even in the past few months when people were sent home and asked to return with proof that they paid their traffic fines. I'm not sure how you missed them, because there are dozens. There are also many cases where people were specifically told that they have to mention tickets but that they won't have an effect.

Can I ask you why the naturalization guide specifically says that you don't need to send in supporting evidence for traffic tickets under $500? Why wouldn't they just say don't disclose them? In fact, why mention traffic tickets at all if they aren't interested in them?

And of course they care about things they don't monitor. If you tell them that you used to work as a guard at a camp for political prisoners, there's no way they're going to approve your application, but that's not something they monitor.

Look, in the end, no one is going to be denied for traffic tickets, but it's important to follow the instructions.

Using your line of thinking, I shouldn't have to mention my trips outside the US because I'm well within the physical presence limit so my trips won't matter.

Basically, there's lots of disagreement on this issue... people can answer the question fully and list all citations (since the question asks for all citations) or they can guess which citation USCIS wants to see.

Edited April 9, 2015 by JimmyHou

[madtownguy 164]

That is an opinion, not a fact supported by the instructions. It is an opinion supported by some interview experiences and contradicted by others.

Why are we trying to guess what they want or don't want? There are lots of cases here, even in the past few months when people were sent home and asked to return with proof that they paid their traffic fines. I'm not sure how you missed them, because there are dozens. There are also many cases where people were specifically told that they have to mention tickets but that they won't have an effect.

Can I ask you why the naturalization guide specifically says that you don't need to send in supporting evidence for traffic tickets under $500? Why wouldn't they just say don't disclose them? In fact, why mention traffic tickets at all if they aren't interested in them?

And of course they care about things they don't monitor. If you tell them that you used to work as a guard at a camp for political prisoners, there's no way they're going to approve your application, but that's not something they monitor.

Look, in the end, no one is going to be denied for traffic tickets, but it's important to follow the instructions.

Using your line of thinking, I shouldn't have to mention my trips outside the US because I'm well within the physical presence limit so my trips won't matter.

Basically, there's lots of disagreement on this issue... people can answer the question fully and list all citations (since the question asks for all citations) or they can guess which citation USCIS wants to see.

Well there's two people here saying in interviews USCIS said citations don't matter, so I still believe your are trying to give them something that will just add confusion. Your mention of trips outside the US is exactly what will matter, because they will have a record of it. I guess your ability to comprehend is minimal. You helped prove my point it's what they will see on a federal/national database that matters. Nobody is getting deported for a speeding ticket so it really doesn't matter if you put it or not, but like the other guy my experience was the same the mention of a failure to stop for school bus ticket was just confusing and pointless. And the USCIS agent said that is not what they are concerned with and it got crossed out on the application. If you have an unpaid ticket it may be different, because that could very likely be reported.

At the end of the day show me one person who didn't put a speeding ticket and because of that got deported... then I will say you better put it down. And what about states like Florida, where you can get 1 ticket a year and take an online class and they will remove the ticket from your record. Do you report a speeding ticket that doesn't even exist anymore?

[spookyturtle 9,465]

That's not correct, you can google it and you will hear people/lawyers say both sides. But here is why I believe you don't need to disclose it, and I personally wouldn't. The U.S. Government is asking you the question, and states won't report that information to the U.S. government. Even counties sometimes don't share with other counties. But when it's a felony or misdemeanor everyone knows about it. If you get a restraining order, are arrested, or even some misdemeanors will show up nationally. They aren't going to care about something they don't monitor to begin with. And then there's the fact that I had an agent at a USCIS office agree with me that they didn't care about traffic violations during an interview. Either way they are not going to cause any problems, even if you get so many speeding tickets you lose your license. Now if you get arrested for driving with out a license then maybe worry.

This is another reason I wouldn't state it, you're just going to confuse them.

The question is asked on the N-400. Telling people not to answer it is poor advice. Follow the instructions and minimize potential problems.

[kamw 93]

That is an opinion, not a fact supported by the instructions. It is an opinion supported by some interview experiences and contradicted by others.

Why are we trying to guess what they want or don't want? There are lots of cases here, even in the past few months when people were sent home and asked to return with proof that they paid their traffic fines. I'm not sure how you missed them, because there are dozens. There are also many cases where people were specifically told that they have to mention tickets but that they won't have an effect.

Can I ask you why the naturalization guide specifically says that you don't need to send in supporting evidence for traffic tickets under $500? Why wouldn't they just say don't disclose them? In fact, why mention traffic tickets at all if they aren't interested in them?

And of course they care about things they don't monitor. If you tell them that you used to work as a guard at a camp for political prisoners, there's no way they're going to approve your application, but that's not something they monitor.

Look, in the end, no one is going to be denied for traffic tickets, but it's important to follow the instructions.

Using your line of thinking, I shouldn't have to mention my trips outside the US because I'm well within the physical presence limit so my trips won't matter.

Basically, there's lots of disagreement on this issue... people can answer the question fully and list all citations (since the question asks for all citations) or they can guess which citation USCIS wants to see.

I asked the same questions here on the site and made my own decision to disclose all the citations ( I have a bad habit of not having my license or insurance paperwork on me so I have maybe 6 or 7 in total) and my 1 speeding ticket. I also carried with me to the interview the documentation that shows that they were all handled in traffic court and paid or dismissed. If asked my opinion I would advise anyone to do the same.

That being said, the very person who interviewed me stated I did not need to disclose them. He said they were not criminal and not relevant. I understand people's hesitation to disclose in case it is used against you. My sister disclosed her tickets and ended up with a six month delay as the person who interviewed her was new and stated because of the tickets(i believe 2 speeding and a citation for tints) she had to redo her background check. She is a registered nurse who has never been in trouble with the law. I've had friends who did not disclose and were never asked about them. It's up to each individual's interpretation of the instructions.

I believe the instructions on the form needs to be defined but until there is a revision just go with listing everything and hope for the best.

Edited April 9, 2015 by kamw

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I asked the same questions here on the site and made my own decision to disclose all the citations ( I have a bad habit of not having my license or insurance paperwork on me so I have maybe 6 or 7 in total) and my 1 speeding ticket. I also carried with me to the interview the documentation that shows that they were all handled in traffic court and paid or dismissed. If asked my opinion I would advise anyone to do the same.

That being said, the very person who interviewed me stated I did not need to disclose them. He said they were not criminal and not relevant. I understand people's hesitation to disclose in case it is used against you. My sister disclosed her tickets and ended up with a six month delay as the person who interviewed her was new and stated because of the tickets(i believe 2 speeding and a citation for tints) she had to redo her background check. She is a registered nurse who has never been in trouble with the law. I've had friends who did not disclose and were never asked about them. It's up to each individual's interpretation of the instructions.

I believe the instructions on the form needs to be defined but until there is a revision just go with listing everything and hope for the best.

As the instructions currently stand, you are supposed to list citations. If you received a citation and answer the question no, you are lying. Period. Maybe USCIS doesn't hold tickets against you, but lying on the N-400 is not the way to find out.

[TBoneTX 45,266]

Posts advocating lying or failure to disclose have been removed, and some others have been left in the thread because of the solid refutation. Any further such posts or defenses of them will result in thread-bans or worse.

The N-400 instructions say to disclose all such incidents, and that's it. There is no more debate.

TBoneTX

VJ Moderation

[JimmyHou 611]

Well there's two people here saying in interviews USCIS said citations don't matter, so I still believe your are trying to give them something that will just add confusion. Your mention of trips outside the US is exactly what will matter, because they will have a record of it. I guess your ability to comprehend is minimal. You helped prove my point it's what they will see on a federal/national database that matters. Nobody is getting deported for a speeding ticket so it really doesn't matter if you put it or not, but like the other guy my experience was the same the mention of a failure to stop for school bus ticket was just confusing and pointless. And the USCIS agent said that is not what they are concerned with and it got crossed out on the application. If you have an unpaid ticket it may be different, because that could very likely be reported.

At the end of the day show me one person who didn't put a speeding ticket and because of that got deported... then I will say you better put it down. And what about states like Florida, where you can get 1 ticket a year and take an online class and they will remove the ticket from your record. Do you report a speeding ticket that doesn't even exist anymore?

You are wrong, and you're being rude, but I'm going to reply anyway (more politely than you've replied).

My ability to comprehend is minimal? Really? That's constructive.

Who's talking about getting deported?

I didn't prove your point, you made up a theory that USCIS only cares about things they monitor... I'm saying that's a theory, which may be right, but that's not what the form is asking for; it's asking for citations. It's actually a very odd theory. Why would they ask you to only list things they monitor and already know about? Why would they ask you to sit there and list all your trips when they know exactly what they all are? They want you to be honest and list things they may have missed.

USCIS doesn't monitor travel, but it has access to the CBP database because USCIS and CBP both sit within DHS so they have full access to each others' databases. It's not as direct for USCIS to get your driving record, but if Geico and Progressive can get it in 30 seconds while you're on the phone, I'm pretty sure USCIS can too... as has been stated by several people who have had this happen at their interviews.

As for your question about tickets that "don't even exist anymore", the answer is in the the naturalization guide and the uscis policy manual. They explicitly state that all arrests or citations need to be reported even if the record of the incident has been expunged by the court.

You also seem to be confusing the fact that traffic tickets shouldn't affect your application with the fact that you're still supposed to list them. There's lots of information on the N400 that won't affect your application but that you still have to list honestly.

Edited April 9, 2015 by JimmyHou

[JimmyHou 611]

For everyone else, please read this interview experience (actually two interview experiences for a husband and wife). Please understand that many interviewers aren't all that interested in traffic citations, but here's a case where two interviewers were interested; one specifically mentioned that the tickets had to be listed. This was in May 2014. There are many other cases where the issue of tickets never came up; so just make your own decision about what to list.

http://www.***removed***/forum/showthread.php/124392-My-quite-instructive-naturalization-interview-experience



My quite instructive naturalization interview experience

I, along with my wife, applied for Naturalization on Feb 24th, 2014. While preparing the form, we both were debating whether to disclose the traffic citations (we both had one of each, hers was a speeding ticket in PA, mine a careless driving ticket it in NJ which was later dialed down to Obstruction of Traffic with no points). Both tickets had fines less than $100 and there are many places (including some USCIS literature) that states that if the fine is less than $500, no need to disclose those or at least submit paperwork for those. After researching for quite a while, we reached the conclusion that it all depends on the Interviewing Officer (IO) so better to disclose them.

We received our Interview Appointment letters in April (Mount Laurel, NJ) and after a week we both got pink colored letters that said that since we had indicated that we had had cited by a law enforcement officer, we must bring to our interview the certified court dispositions to the resolutions of those citations. I got mine from my municipal court (took a week) but since my wife had pleaded guilty to speeding and paid online, there wasn't any court disposition. So, as the next best thing, she went to the DMV and got her driving record transcript that said that she was a driver in good standing. We collected these documents even though the pink letter said no paper work is needed for traffic violations not involving alcohol and drugs and the fine was lesser than $500. We took those documents with us any way.

I lucked out at having probably the best and most polite IO. The lady was really courteous and kind. We zipped through the initial phase. I got my first 6 civic questions rights so she stopped there. She asked me if I was still with the same employer and I said no and gave her a letter from my new employer confirming my job change.

Then came the question of the traffic ticket. I gave her the certified court disposition with the fine of $36. She looked and sighed and said, "unfortunately, that's not enough. I need a certified copy of the police report". I told her that the pink letter stated that if the fine is less than $500, no paperwork is needed. She said that despite that letter saying that, the police report is a statutory requirement. I was bummed and she probably saw that. She told me that ordinarily, she would ask the applicant to mail the police report and then reschedule the interview, but in my case, she would make an exemption and if I can get the report back to her by 2:00 pm, she would recommend me for the approval.

In the meantime, my wife was being interviewed in the other office. She wasn't as lucky as I was when it comes to IO. After going through all the questions, the lady asked my wife if she was sure she was never arrested. My wife said that she was absolutely sure. At this point, her IO went out and brought someone else in who looked at the computer and said that well, there was something wrong with her background. After 5 minutes of going through stuff, the second IO said, "ah! it's not an arrest. It's a speeding ticket. Did you mention that on your N-400?" and my wife said that of course she had to which the second IO said, "good for you". My wife got the oath appointment for 3:00 pm and then we rushed back to the police station to get my police report.

With the certified copy in hand, I went back to Mount Laurel and asked to see the IO I had seen in the morning. She came out and ushered me back into her office. I handed her the police report. She didn't even read it. She just put it in the file and gave me the oath form.

And now we are proud US citizens.

Moral of the story: Disclose everything and if it's a traffic violation, go with the disposition AND the police report.

[madtownguy 164]

You are wrong, and you're being rude, but I'm going to reply anyway (more politely than you've replied).

My ability to comprehend is minimal? Really? That's constructive.

Who's talking about getting deported?

I didn't prove your point, you made up a theory that USCIS only cares about things they monitor... I'm saying that's a theory, which may be right, but that's not what the form is asking for; it's asking for citations. It's actually a very odd theory. Why would they ask you to only list things they monitor and already know about? Why would they ask you to sit there and list all your trips when they know exactly what they all are? They want you to be honest and list things they may have missed.

They want to catch you in a lie, which is why they ask questions they already know the answers to. As the moderator stated their is no debate. I suggest anyone does a lot of research, there are tons of examples on the internet that disagree. My experience included.

[olna83 20]

They want to catch you in a lie, which is why they ask questions they already know the answers to. As the moderator stated their is no debate. I suggest anyone does a lot of research, there are tons of examples on the internet that disagree. My experience included.

Your words scared me completely now...Because when I was filling out my N400 I didn't indicate my speeding tickets and a red light stop violation - not because I wanted to hide something but because I was under impression (and my attorney suggested the same) that they're only concerned with criminal charges or citations over $500. However, my lawyer did say that for the interview I would need to bring court dispositions and proof of all paid traffic violations, and that I would need to tell them about my all citations.

[JimmyHou 611]

Your words scared me completely now...Because when I was filling out my N400 I didn't indicate my speeding tickets and a red light stop violation - not because I wanted to hide something but because I was under impression (and my attorney suggested the same) that they're only concerned with criminal charges or citations over $500. However, my lawyer did say that for the interview I would need to bring court dispositions and proof of all paid traffic violations, and that I would need to tell them about my all citations.

No need to worry at all. Just bring it up at the interview and take the relevant paperwork.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Where are people getting the over $500 amount for disclosing tickets? What does it say in the N-400 instructions?

[aayitrun 66]

Alright guys. Let's not get into a pissing contest. What we are trying to guage here is the impact on the application from traffic tickets with regards to GMC. I think the USCIS is pretty smart at figuring things out so hiding anything is silly.

[lexrj 3]

I just got my interview letter and here are the exact instructions regarding traffic tickets, therefore, I'm not going to worry about at all about my tickets.

http://goo.gl/F2W2nI

[madtownguy 164]

I just got my interview letter and here are the exact instructions regarding traffic tickets, therefore, I'm not going to worry about at all about my tickets.

http://goo.gl/F2W2nI

Those instructions make sense, it is exactly the level at which a good employer would look at. Basically anything under a DUI isn't important. I'm sure eventually someone will link something else that contradicts this. From the experiences I've heard of putting down traffic tickets won't get you denied, but it could lengthen the process a couple of extra weeks. Not including traffic tickets also won't get you denied, haven't heard of anyone talk about waiting longer because of not including traffic tickets. I think this is a common sense move.