Why isn't Al Sharpton in jail for tax evasion?

[Teddy B 17,252]

So we should take money from people who do not make enough to support themselves in full or for whom taking taxes would alter the balance to make them unable to support themselves? Thus making it so that their tax obligation means that they must then borrow or take money from the government in order to survive?

Makes perfect sense dunnit?

Even under a flat rate system there should still be a taxable income threshold.

I agree, that's what I meant when I said "for people that earn a high enough wage to qualify".

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It makes plenty of sense. And you conveniently forget that many of the 50% not paying any income taxes are working. If you earn any income, you should pay taxes. Period.

That is why the flat tax, with no exclusions, is the only fair way to tax a population. Earn little, pay little. And under that fair scenario, those who have no income = no taxes.

Coincidentally, that's how it works. They're called FICA taxes and are due on the very first dollar earned.

[decocker 7,198]

why do folks get so angry about poor people getting a chunk of money at tax time (that goes right back out, it's not like folks horde their tax return and amass wealth off the interest like the rich do) but don't give much thought to the billions of actual wealth that goes completely untaxed?

[Teddy B 17,252]

why do folks get so angry about poor people getting a chunk of money at tax time (that goes right back out, it's not like folks horde their tax return and amass wealth off the interest like the rich do) but don't give much thought to the billions of actual wealth that goes completely untaxed?

Because poor people really aren't people at all.

[decocker 7,198]

Because poor people really aren't people at all.

it just doesn't make sense. poor people literally can't keep money. they get a little, goes right back out. but rich "people" (otherwise known as corporations).. they can just sit on a portion of money, not pay any income tax, buy politicians, buy policy that keeps them in the position to continue to shirk their civic duty. it's disgusting. but yeah, poor people being good little consumers every chance they get - for shame.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Because poor people really aren't people at all.

If you're poor, you deserve it. That's the thinking.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

why do folks get so angry about poor people getting a chunk of money at tax time (that goes right back out, it's not like folks horde their tax return and amass wealth off the interest like the rich do) but don't give much thought to the billions of actual wealth that goes completely untaxed?

I have not seen anyone complain about someone getting a refund because they overpaid their taxes - which is how you described it in your last post: Your friend getting taxes taken out all year and then getting a refund back after doing her taxes. She overpaid so her money is returned to her. If anyone does have an issue with this please correct me.

EIC is another matter - you get to add pretend money you didn't earn to taxes you didn't pay that then goes to your refund. That's just plain welfare - no problem but why hide it and give it a name that makes it sound like an accomplishment? If we are going to hand out money lets do it all from one place so we know exactly how much we are spending and on what.

On a personal dream note: I would like to see a tax system like this: The first 35,000 (or 70,000 for a family) you make is tax free. After than we tax at say 25% (whatever is needed to pay the bills). This would be true for everybody - bill gates and the single student working at McDonalds get the first 35,000 tax free.. Then they pay 25% on earnings after that.

No EIC, no personal deductions, no deductions for kids, being blind, being old, etc, etc.. and no deductions for mortgages for freak sake. If we want to hand out money for these things it should done though straight welfare checks.

We need to keep both the left and the right from using the tax code for their agendas.

[decocker 7,198]

I have not seen anyone complain about someone getting a refund because they overpaid their taxes - which is how you described it in your last post: Your friend getting taxes taken out all year and then getting a refund back after doing her taxes. She overpaid so her money is returned to her. If anyone does have an issue with this please correct me.

EIC is another matter - you get to add pretend money you didn't earn to taxes you didn't pay that then goes to your refund. That's just plain welfare - no problem but why hide it and give it a name that makes it sound like an accomplishment? If we are going to hand out money lets do it all from one place so we know exactly how much we are spending and on what.

On a personal dream note: I would like to see a tax system like this: The first 35,000 (or 70,000 for a family) you make is tax free. After than we tax at say 25% (whatever is needed to pay the bills). This would be true for everybody - bill gates and the single student working at McDonalds get the first 35,000 tax free.. Then they pay 25% on earnings after that.

No EIC, no personal deductions, no deductions for kids, being blind, being old, etc, etc.. and no deductions for mortgages for freak sake. If we want to hand out money for these things it should done though straight welfare checks.

We need to keep both the left and the right from using the tax code for their agendas.

no, i didn't describe overpayment - i was describing eic. i qualified for eic up till a few years ago. i'm not delusional about how eic functions and the name 'eic' or 'tax refund' doesn't cause any confusion..i get it. loopholes are loopholes, and when it comes to transparancy EIC is right out in the open. everybody knows it's welfare.

but did you read the part where i said she has four dependants? on one income below 26,000 a year. think about that a minute.

fact remains that eic refunds get injected right back into the economy. wealth amassed by individuals/corporations that loophole themselves into paying next to nothing? just creates MORE wealth without injecting anything back into the economy.

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

I have not seen anyone complain about someone getting a refund because they overpaid their taxes - which is how you described it in your last post: Your friend getting taxes taken out all year and then getting a refund back after doing her taxes. She overpaid so her money is returned to her. If anyone does have an issue with this please correct me.

EIC is another matter - you get to add pretend money you didn't earn to taxes you didn't pay that then goes to your refund. That's just plain welfare - no problem but why hide it and give it a name that makes it sound like an accomplishment? If we are going to hand out money lets do it all from one place so we know exactly how much we are spending and on what.

On a personal dream note: I would like to see a tax system like this: The first 35,000 (or 70,000 for a family) you make is tax free. After than we tax at say 25% (whatever is needed to pay the bills). This would be true for everybody - bill gates and the single student working at McDonalds get the first 35,000 tax free.. Then they pay 25% on earnings after that.

No EIC, no personal deductions, no deductions for kids, being blind, being old, etc, etc.. and no deductions for mortgages for freak sake. If we want to hand out money for these things it should done though straight welfare checks.

We need to keep both the left and the right from using the tax code for their agendas.

Being old or blind or needing a wheelchair costs significantly more than being young, hale and hearty. If you ask me, someone who is disabled is already paying a tax on breathing. Did you know a child's wheelchair can cost over 2000 dollars, for example? And that's before you factor in anything else.

By the time you take a flat tax from the disabled, if they were managing to not be in the government dime, their finances could be easily destroyed by taxes.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

no, i didn't describe overpayment - i was describing eic. i qualified for eic up till a few years ago. i'm not delusional about how eic functions and the name 'eic' or 'tax refund' doesn't cause any confusion..i get it. loopholes are loopholes, and when it comes to transparancy EIC is right out in the open. everybody knows it's welfare.

but did you read the part where i said she has four dependants? on one income below 26,000 a year. think about that a minute.

fact remains that eic refunds get injected right back into the economy. wealth amassed by individuals/corporations that loophole themselves into paying next to nothing? just creates MORE wealth without injecting anything back into the economy.

I saw she had four dependents.. I understand people may need help from the state based on their situation. I would rather have the government give her a check directly than have it done through the tax system. The effect is the same: she will spend it on what she needs and put it back into the system.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Being old or blind or needing a wheelchair costs significantly more than being young, hale and hearty. If you ask me, someone who is disabled is already paying a tax on breathing. Did you know a child's wheelchair can cost over 2000 dollars, for example? And that's before you factor in anything else.

By the time you take a flat tax from the disabled, if they were managing to not be in the government dime, their finances could be easily destroyed by taxes.

So? We give them help by giving them money directly and not hiding it in tax forms. That way we can have an honest conversation and know the real costs. Wealth redistribution based on need is fine but it should come from one (or as few) source(s) as possible and not hidden.

Edited April 9, 2015 by OnMyWayID

[decocker 7,198]

I saw she had four dependents.. I understand people may need help from the state based on their situation. I would rather have the government give her a check directly than have it done through the tax system. The effect is the same: she will spend it on what she needs and put it back into the system.

exactly, the effect is the same. the effect is not the same on large amounts of money that aren't taxed. so my focus and anger are directed at the large amounts of money that aren't taxed.

So? We give them help by giving them money directly and not hiding it in tax forms. That way we can have an honest conversation and know the real costs. Wealth redistribution based on need is fine but it should come from one (or as few) source(s) as possible and not hidden.

it isn't hidden. it's common knowledge.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

exactly, the effect is the same. the effect is not the same on large amounts of money that aren't taxed. so my focus and anger are directed at the large amounts of money that aren't taxed.

it isn't hidden. it's common knowledge.

Really? What is the budget set aside for it? How much of "my" money is set aside for it? I can figure this number out for what is going to the military or NASA or any other budgeted program.. Congress has to vote and have a conversation to build a tank and they may cancel a program (or borrow or divert from other programs) based on revenue. Doing it through the tax system allows none of that because the money is never really part of the accounting system. Why? It is an expense we have to pay, we should know the numbers.

It is the same.. Only we will have it as part of our overall budget.. Why is that a problem?

[decocker 7,198]

Really? What is the budget set aside for it? How much of "my" money is set aside for it? I can figure this number out for what is going to the military or NASA or any other budgeted program.. Congress has to vote and have a conversation to build a tank and they may cancel a program (or borrow or divert from other programs) based on revenue. Doing it through the tax system allows none of that because the money is never really part of the accounting system. Why? It is an expense we have to pay, we should know the numbers.

It is the same.. Only we will have it as part of our overall budget.. Why is that a problem?

well then eic is the issue that gets you angry. from the start i've been saying that EIC isn't what's important to me.

anyway - if eic was a budgeted program, it wouldn't happen. not with the current congress. everyone knows that 'welfare' is something the right simply doesn't tolerate. never mind the importance of balanced 'wealth distribution'.

Edited April 9, 2015 by val erie

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

it just doesn't make sense. poor people literally can't keep money. they get a little, goes right back out. but rich "people" (otherwise known as corporations).. they can just sit on a portion of money, not pay any income tax, buy politicians, buy policy that keeps them in the position to continue to shirk their civic duty. it's disgusting. but yeah, poor people being good little consumers every chance they get - for shame.

Case study-- Shorty has 6 kids. Makes 10.25 per hour. Pays a total of about 300 year in Fed Income Tax. On every Govt program known to man.

Gets wife preggy with number 7. Get's back about 7K in Tax refunds. Files FLMA because wife is preggy. Parties like a rock star for about a month or better on 7K.

One of many real life scenarios I witnessed. Happens all the time .

If you think that kind of Govt aided stupidity is good for anyone including Shorty you are either impaired or stoned.