AOS From Tourist Visa Threads Being Shut Down

[Boiler 45,311]

I do not think any of us are talking about grey area comments, just ones that are blatently wrong, either through ignorance or agenda.

[JohnR! 5,495]

That should be the norm. Unless your white and a professed proven cross-carrying Christian, you should be considered guilty of intent.

Shouldn't this be like the CEHST forum where people are guilty until proven innocent? Or at least they are if they aren't a white Chrisitan?

[Darnell 8,478]

This is a difficult area to mod, because it can be a grey area, depending on intent.

To walk the line, modding wise, between allowing people a say (even if they disagree with the Op), and pointing out what could be illegal intent/ miss-use of a tourist visa, and helping those who genuinely have cause to AOS can be hard, and those reports are often debated muchly amongst the mods before we moderate the thread (or not moderate, as the case may be). What usually happens is that some posts are removed and maybe an in-thread warning to cool it given, or a verbal warning to the worst offenders in a thread(ie a note on their profiel, but without a suspension unless they seriously breached the TOS), and if that does not stop the bickering, we close the thread- especially as the link to our Guide, which answers many of the questions asked- is usually posted in one of the first few replies.

Teddy? is this yer answer?

If yes, please ask your topic to be closed,

or

let's dissect this more, aye?

[spookyturtle 9,465]

But it is allowed whether or not there was intent - which is often where a thread gets derailed. We end up explaining the same thing, over and over and over, thread after thread. I try to report posts that have nothing to do with the OP's questions, but I am not often on VJ these days. I have found the mods to be very responsive at those times, though, which is much appreciated.

Two things I'd like to see - first, renaming the two AOS forums so people don't post in the wrong one. I think that would cut out a substantial portion. Secondly, repeat offenders should be forum-banned. There are certain people who do like proselytizing in the AOS from non-family based visas on occasion. I think if there were a certain number of reports, that resulted in their comment being deleted, they should be banned temporarily, then permanently, from the forum.

Good points. There are some in the upper forums who have a holier than thou attitude and others who tell people to blatantly lie. We're supposed to support following the law here, even if we don't agree with it. Some people get mad when they perceive others as taking a shortcut or cheating to shorten the process. Some support changing the law not to allow AOS from a tourist visa.

[ValerieA 350]

Some people get mad when they perceive others as taking a shortcut or cheating to shorten the process. Some support changing the law not to allow AOS from a tourist visa.

Yes, there are. And that's their own problem. We are simply trying to answer questions in that forum that people new to the process are asking. Judgment really doesn't help them, and is totally inappropriate. The current methods of dealing with it, or not, really, allow people to be scared away who may then make an error in their paperwork or process that could get them denied and deported. Plus, I would rather spend my limited time helping people rather than trying to convince others who have no darned business commenting that they have something wrong.

[Penguin_ie 5,993]

Two things I'd like to see - first, renaming the two AOS forums so people don't post in the wrong one. I think that would cut out a substantial portion. Secondly, repeat offenders should be forum-banned. There are certain people who do like proselytizing in the AOS from non-family based visas on occasion. I think if there were a certain number of reports, that resulted in their comment being deleted, they should be banned temporarily, then permanently, from the forum.

We can certainly looking into re-naming the forums to make them clearer-0 and yes we do need to move a lot of threads, which causes work for us too. What would you suggest naming them?

Afaik, we cannot ban someone from a forum, just individual threads(or the whole site). But Hopefully Captain Ewok can answer that one.

[Teddy B 17,251]

First, thank you to all of the mods and other members for their input, the prompt attention and response is appreciated.

This is a difficult area to mod, because it can be a grey area, depending on intent.

To walk the line, modding wise, between allowing people a say (even if they disagree with the Op), and pointing out what could be illegal intent/ miss-use of a tourist visa, and helping those who genuinely have cause to AOS can be hard, and those reports are often debated muchly amongst the mods before we moderate the thread (or not moderate, as the case may be). What usually happens is that some posts are removed and maybe an in-thread warning to cool it given, or a verbal warning to the worst offenders in a thread(ie a note on their profiel, but without a suspension unless they seriously breached the TOS), and if that does not stop the bickering, we close the thread- especially as the link to our Guide, which answers many of the questions asked- is usually posted in one of the first few replies.

I really don't have any problem with a poster pointing out the intent issue to the original poster as intent is part of the law as it is written. The posts I am referring to are the ones that come right out and accuse the poster of "bypassing the system", "cutting in line", "not doing it the right way", "go home and wait like the rest of us", or the worst one, "you are committing fraud". Most of the time these posts are made by other members who know that adjusting from a tourist visa is legal, but they have a burr up their butt because they chose a different immigration path and have had to wait while being separated from their significant other. These are the worst posts and some can be down right nasty. While I sympathize with these posters, it is not the place of anyone on VJ to judge or put down another member that is using a different, perfectly legal, immigration path than they are. Some of the people who make these posts are repeat offenders and the mods know who they are.

The result I am hoping for with this issue is less tolerance on behalf of the mods to the repeat offenders and a verbal reinforcement made to the posters by the mods that falsely accusing other members of immigration fraud is a violation of TOS. In my opinion falsely accusing someone of immigration fraud is just as bad as advocating immigration fraud. I see many wild accusations of fraud repeatedly being thrown about by people like it's second nature when there is no basis for it. Without the threat of administrative action, the posters become emboldened and the next time the wording becomes worse. I would also like to keep these threads open whenever possible, shutting them down is letting the people who violate TOS get their way by stifling the conversation.

.

I think it's a very difficult area to mod or judge. The law allows it if it was not the intent, yet intent is easy to disguise in many cases. Some people are honest about it, others aren't. It is hard to prove intent.

Intent is certainly an issue when it comes to AOS from any non-immigrant visa and it is certainly ok to warn the posters of this issue. There is also a big warning about intent in the VJ I-130 guide. But it is not our place to judge anyone's intent nor can we really do so through a computer screen unless the poster comes right out and states his/her intent, which does happen from time to time. When a person declares that they do have immigrant intent prior to entry into the states, then it's perfectly fine to warn them that doing this is considered fraud by USCIS and also inform them of the implications if they are caught.

Teddy? is this yer answer?

If yes, please ask your topic to be closed,

or

let's dissect this more, aye?

Hold on to yer knickers D, I dont think we're finished just yet.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Teddy B

[Teddy B 17,251]

But it is allowed whether or not there was intent - which is often where a thread gets derailed. We end up explaining the same thing, over and over and over, thread after thread. I try to report posts that have nothing to do with the OP's questions, but I am not often on VJ these days. I have found the mods to be very responsive at those times, though, which is much appreciated.

Two things I'd like to see - first, renaming the two AOS forums so people don't post in the wrong one. I think that would cut out a substantial portion. Secondly, repeat offenders should be forum-banned. There are certain people who do like proselytizing in the AOS from non-family based visas on occasion. I think if there were a certain number of reports, that resulted in their comment being deleted, they should be banned temporarily, then permanently, from the forum.

Hi Val, good to see you!

I hadn't given any thought to renaming the two AOS forums but sounds like it could be a good idea. What did you have in mind?

[ValerieA 350]

I suggested this a few years ago, but it didn't go anywhere. Maybe make it more specific - AOS From K-1, K-3 Visas; AOS From Non-K Visas. The issue is people see the word "family" and think it applies to them because they are adjusting based on marriage. If a person is AOSing from a K visa, they KNOW that. Our forum tends more to the people who have little to no knowledge of the immigration process.

Penguin, I know that you can't forum-ban right now. I just wish you could. Is it technically possible? Or am I just tilting at windmills?

[ValerieA 350]

This is a difficult area to mod, because it can be a grey area, depending on intent.

To walk the line, modding wise, between allowing people a say (even if they disagree with the Op), and pointing out what could be illegal intent/ miss-use of a tourist visa, and helping those who genuinely have cause to AOS can be hard, and those reports are often debated muchly amongst the mods before we moderate the thread (or not moderate, as the case may be). What usually happens is that some posts are removed and maybe an in-thread warning to cool it given, or a verbal warning to the worst offenders in a thread(ie a note on their profiel, but without a suspension unless they seriously breached the TOS), and if that does not stop the bickering, we close the thread- especially as the link to our Guide, which answers many of the questions asked- is usually posted in one of the first few replies.

I do appreciate the job the mods do. You have all been very responsive to reports of trouble in a forum thread, and you are fair.

Do you really want my opinion on the guide for AOSing from a non-family visa? I think the warning is inflammatory. And incorrect. I have stated multiple times that it should be, at the very least, reworded.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

But it is not our place to judge anyone's intent nor can we really do so through a computer screen unless the poster comes right out and states his/her intent, which does happen from time to time.

We' are CEHST forum participants. Of course we are supposed to judge and ridicule them.

[Teddy B 17,251]

I suggested this a few years ago, but it didn't go anywhere. Maybe make it more specific - AOS From K-1, K-3 Visas; AOS From Non-K Visas. The issue is people see the word "family" and think it applies to them because they are adjusting based on marriage. If a person is AOSing from a K visa, they KNOW that. Our forum tends more to the people who have little to no knowledge of the immigration process.

Penguin, I know that you can't forum-ban right now. I just wish you could. Is it technically possible? Or am I just tilting at windmills?

I do agree that having the word "family" in the forum description for AOS from K visas is confusing, I remember being tripped up by it when I first started posting here as well. I like your suggestion of replacing the word "family" with the actual visa names, much easier to understand.

I do appreciate the job the mods do. You have all been very responsive to reports of trouble in a forum thread, and you are fair.

Do you really want my opinion on the guide for AOSing from a non-family visa? I think the warning is inflammatory. And incorrect. I have stated multiple times that it should be, at the very least, reworded.

I agree with this as well.

[Teddy B 17,251]

We' are CEHST forum participants. Of course we are supposed to judge and ridicule them.

[ValerieA 350]

We' are CEHST forum participants. Of course we are supposed to judge and ridicule them.

Dammit, I've been doing it all wrong.

[Penguin_ie 5,993]

The posts I am referring to are the ones that come right out and accuse the poster of "bypassing the system", "cutting in line", "not doing it the right way", "go home and wait like the rest of us", or the worst one, "you are committing fraud".

The result I am hoping for with this issue is less tolerance on behalf of the mods to the repeat offenders and a verbal reinforcement made to the posters by the mods that falsely accusing other members of immigration fraud is a violation of TOS.

I'll make more of a point of pointing out "back seat modding" and false accusations, and ask other mods to do the same, you are absolutely right that such is against the TOS, though wording and context are crucial here- often, an opening post has little information, in which case, pointing out what is planned MAY be visa fraud may be legit.

My other concern is that, as you point out, we get many new members here who have little to no knowledge of the immigration process. If those who have not entered the USA yet see the AOSing threads, and we do not allow any mention of grey areas/ potential intent issues, they may get the wrong impression, and try to enter the USA and at the border say they intend to stay or some such.

I suggested this a few years ago, but it didn't go anywhere. Maybe make it more specific - AOS From K-1, K-3 Visas; AOS From Non-K Visas. The issue is people see the word "family" and think it applies to them because they are adjusting based on marriage. If a person is AOSing from a K visa, they KNOW that. Our forum tends more to the people who have little to no knowledge of the immigration process.

Penguin, I know that you can't forum-ban right now. I just wish you could. Is it technically possible? Or am I just tilting at windmills?

So "AOS from K1 and K3", and leave the "other AOS forum" as is?

Last time we checked, it was not possible at all to ban people from one forum, or one category, but I know Captain Ewok is planning some upgrades, so who knows in future...

Do you really want my opinion on the guide for AOSing from a non-family visa? I think the warning is inflammatory. And incorrect. I have stated multiple times that it should be, at the very least, reworded.

I would not agree with removing it, but I am absolutely willing to discuss a re-wording. What would you suggest?