K3 vs K1 denials based of false relationship

[mchina34 0]

Which visa gets denied the most at time of interview for being a fraud/false intent petition? This isn't to say the consular officer is right, just based on the decision they made.

If this happened to you or you know of someone that this happened to, check which is 'most true'.

I think if we knew of some statistics for denials, like, for instance, if people knew 15% of K1 visas are denied, but only 3% of K3 visas were, it would help in the decision process whether or not to marry the person first prior to filing.

[YuAndDan 153]

Which visa gets denied the most at time of interview for being a fraud/false intent petition? This isn't to say the consular officer is right, just based on the decision they made.

If this happened to you or you know of someone that this happened to, check which is 'most true'.

I think if we knew of some statistics for denials, like, for instance, if people knew 15% of K1 visas are denied, but only 3% of K3 visas were, it would help in the decision process whether or not to marry the person first prior to filing.

Good question to ask on CFL, David on that board keeps some good stats on this, I did some searching but could not locate the post with the stats.

http://candleforlove.com

[DelcoCouple 1]

The question in itself worries me. If someone is making a choice to choose a particular path because there is less chance of it being denied as fraudulent would tend to indicate fraudulent intent in the first place. The correct path is the one that fits the circumstances of an individual couple in a genuine relationship - just sayin'

[Robor007 0]

This has the potential to turn into one of those threads. I hope it doesn't but it (different visas) is a touchy subject to some.

I was told by someone that K-3 visas are less scrutinized than K-1's because the K-3 already shows a marital bond/commitment between the couple. It does make sense to me. Based on our situation, I could've petitioned my current wife for a K-1 visa after meeting in person on the cruise ship she was working on in Jan of 2005. Instead I traveled to the Philippines to visit her in May for a week and we were engaged. I traveled to visit her again this past November for 3 weeks and we were married. Note that getting married in the Philippines takes 2+ weeks because of a 10 day waiting period for the marriage license.

Given that, I hope that the agent/officer who interviews my wife takes my time, effort, and money into consideration when they consider our petition. More than that I hope they consider that my wife is staying in Manila rather than going back to work in the cruise industry so she can take care of all the things she needs to do in preparation for the eventual interview. I think that and the additional evidence we have (pictures, hand written letters & cards, Email, chat logs, SMS printouts, etc, etc) should make her interview a slam dunk but we will not know until it happens. Oh, and I'll be there for the interview as well (hope that helps!).

DelcoCouple brings up a *great* point though. Either one has fraud potential, it's just that one takes more effort. When we decided to commit our lives to each other we wanted the quickest option rather than the safest. We did some research and learned the K-1 and K-3 are pretty close in timeframe. The difference being the K-3 allows multiple entry so should we want to travel outside the US before AOS we can. We also liked the idea of being married there so her family could be present. We can still have a small ceremony for my family once she's here.

[RIMASH 0]

I think the same..i dont think its the visa NAME.....that results in a denial. I am from india...and i have seen couples that have applied for K1 & K3 and have received visas....

I also know a couple who applied for K3 and visa got denied.......

You know there is no definite answer.........as it really depends on your situation and the CONSULATE at the window...some of them are just in a nice mood and they grant visa to all...........Some are GENUINELY BAD and RUDE and they come up with excuses.

So, i dont think you can play around with statistics to come to an answer...what you should look at is this:

1. is your visa petition really valid?

2. do you have ALL documents needed? everything?

3. ARE YOU TRUE TO YOURSELF & GOD

If all of the above are true............then I guarantee you a visa.

GOOD LUCK!!

[mchina34 0]

The question in itself worries me. If someone is making a choice to choose a particular path because there is less chance of it being denied as fraudulent would tend to indicate fraudulent intent in the first place. The correct path is the one that fits the circumstances of an individual couple in a genuine relationship - just sayin'

How so? If you are getting a K1 visa you are telling USCIS you are marrying that person AFTEr they are granted access to enter the US. K3 the relationship is already fixed prior to entry. The K1 isn't a trial and error visa, a visa where people are supposed to see if things work out after they enter the US (i've seen people say they are doing this), then get married. The intent is to get married. Both visas are for marriage.

the benefit of getting the K1 is the time_to_process_petition - not_flying_to_other_country_and_getting_married_first_plus_fiancial_costs = less expansive and shorter wait time before able to file. This of course is applicable to people who've met their soon -to-be spouse at least once already, as that's a requirements to file K1, but did not for whatever reason already marry the person.

K3 simply takes more total time if you are not in the foreign country to get married. For instance, first time you got to visit the person, then you like them and decide to marry after you've already left the country, but don't want to fly back (or can't too much money, can't get time off from work, whatever) and you don't want to wait even if you could, so you file K1. Still, there's no commitment legally, other than signing the USCIS docs that say you intend to marry this person upon 90 days of port entry.

So, if the CO looks at K1s with more scrutiny and thefroe less are approved, I think that'd be a good thing to know. I'm already married, so it doesn't matter to me, but had I chosen the K1 I could've saved several thousand dollar, a job, and a couple months of waiting. However, it was just better for my spouse and I and we felt it was proper to get married first before she left her home country, but I also didn't like how I had to trust the CO to make a decision that was in my favor. Simply put, being married already instead of promising to get married seemed like it would be more convincing, and a less likely chance of sitting around for 6-9 months and ending up with a denial. Of course denials still come about even with married couples, unfortunately.

The truth is, though, that there might be little to no difference in denials based on 'false' relationships per petition type. Responses might also be skewed since it seems like more people get K1 than K3 (looking at some VJ stats anyways). Stats might also point out that people with K1s get more denials, which might entice people to get married first. I already made my decision, which I'm very happy with, but useful information might help other people make a different/better decision.

So, this is supposed to be an objective post where people can actually see some stats, not a moral fight where we argue that people should get married first, or any thing like that.

Happy voting!!

[Savanphil 3]

The question in itself worries me. If someone is making a choice to choose a particular path because there is less chance of it being denied as fraudulent would tend to indicate fraudulent intent in the first place. The correct path is the one that fits the circumstances of an individual couple in a genuine relationship - just sayin'

Why can't they simply be curious?? Especially since the petitions are already filed.

Edited February 8, 2007 by Savanphil

[tom&tata 2]

What if 2 people - who happen to know same person with denial - each give their vote. That will be a double count.

[mchina34 0]

What if 2 people - who happen to know same person with denial - each give their vote. That will be a double count.

HHAAH...I thought about that, but I didn't know how to make it to where the poll count would eliminate that.

I was thinking that each person could put the person's screen name or first name in real life down, but that seems kina personal.

anyways, it's not a research paper, so just answer if you know of someone. the same odds of that happening for either visa are probably close to the same, so it would even out most likely anyways.

[~kiyah~ 14]

Which visa gets denied the most at time of interview for being a fraud/false intent petition? This isn't to say the consular officer is right, just based on the decision they made.

If this happened to you or you know of someone that this happened to, check which is 'most true'.

I think if we knew of some statistics for denials, like, for instance, if people knew 15% of K1 visas are denied, but only 3% of K3 visas were, it would help in the decision process whether or not to marry the person first prior to filing.

I am afraid the answer to this question is not so simple. There are many K1s returned and revoked, there are many K3s returned and revoked, there are many CR1s returned and revoked. There is no way to "check" which is most true. This can depend on many things, the consulate processing the visa application, the CO giving the interview, how the interview goes, how the quality of the evidence submitted is etc.

It is all case-by-case, and it is not certainly so "black and white" that you choose one type of petition over another because one is denied more often than the other...this to me is a type of immigration fraud in itself. By making a decision on which visa path to take based on which is type denied more is already like your hiding something and seems dishonest to begin with.

There is a statistics table the State Department publishes on "ineligibilities" every fiscal year. Here is a link to the one from 2005. The main visa statistics data for 2005 is also published here:

Report of the Visa Office Table of 2005

I have yet to find any data on 2006 published at all. I certainly would not base a decision on which petition path to take on statistics like this or any other statistics of this nature.

I know of many couples who have had their K1, K3, and CR1 returned...some were reaffirmed and some were denied. You can definitely say that the chances of denial of any immigrant and non-immigrant visa petition and/or application are the exactly same.

~Kiyah~

Edited February 8, 2007 by Kiya

[Mrs.J06 4]

I was told by someone that K-3 visas are less scrutinized than K-1's because the K-3 already shows a marital bond/commitment between the couple. It does make sense to me. Based on our situation, I could've petitioned my current wife for a K-1 visa after meeting in person on the cruise ship she was working on in Jan of 2005. Instead I traveled to the Philippines to visit her in May for a week and we were engaged. I traveled to visit her again this past November for 3 weeks and we were married. Note that getting married in the Philippines takes 2+ weeks because of a 10 day waiting period for the marriage license.

I think there are many couples here who have seen each other much more often than three times (me and my husband included) and were still petitioning for a K1.

I don't see how a CO could really make a decision about how "serious" or "real" a relationship is by just considering if the couple is married or not. In my opinion, you will be more scrutinized if you have only seen your partner once or twice before either filing or marriage. And to me, that makes sense.

The decision on which type of visa to file for should be made with regards to the options each visa type has, such as time to possible employment once in the US, travel restriction etc. Again, just MHO.

[mchina34 0]

Which visa gets denied the most at time of interview for being a fraud/false intent petition? This isn't to say the consular officer is right, just based on the decision they made.

If this happened to you or you know of someone that this happened to, check which is 'most true'.

I think if we knew of some statistics for denials, like, for instance, if people knew 15% of K1 visas are denied, but only 3% of K3 visas were, it would help in the decision process whether or not to marry the person first prior to filing.

I am afraid the answer to this question is not so simple. There are many K1s returned and revoked, there are many K3s returned and revoked, there are many CR1s returned and revoked. There is no way to "check" which is most true. This can depend on many things, the consulate processing the visa application, the CO giving the interview, how the interview goes, how the quality of the evidence submitted is etc.

It is all case-by-case, and it is not certainly so "black and white" that you choose one type of petition over another because one is denied more often than the other...this to me is a type of immigration fraud in itself. By making a decision on which visa path to take based on which is type denied more is already like your hiding something and seems dishonest to begin with.

There is a statistics table the State Department publishes on "ineligibilities" every fiscal year. Here is a link to the one from 2005. The main visa statistics data for 2005 is also published here:

Report of the Visa Office Table of 2005

I have yet to find any data on 2006 published at all. I certainly would not base a decision on which petition path to take on statistics like this or any other statistics of this nature.

I know of many couples who have had their K1, K3, and CR1 returned...some were reaffirmed and some were denied. You can definitely say that the chances of denial of any immigrant and non-immigrant visa petition and/or application are the exactly same.

~Kiyah~

Fraud marriage is making a petition for purposes other than getting married (strictly immigration). Fraud is not trying to ascertain which way is the quickest and most likely way to get your spouse in the US legally. All of the petitions are for immigration anyways, so they all have the same ending. It's no different than someone looking at the K1 (several years ago before the K3 came about) and electing to not get married so they can live with their spouse sooner than later, as the petition for a spouse used to take 12-15months and a K-1 was 6-9 months. It's a choice given by USCIS, so i don't see how you think it could be fraud if one wants the safest/quickest path. Either way, I'll agree to disagree. :-)

Also, there are numerous reasons why a case gets denied, but I'm only interested in cases that get denied because the beneficiary is told they are immigrating to the US not to live with their spouse, but simply for the sake of immigrating. It's my understanding there are cases like this, so I was hoping to see which petition people have seen this happen to more. I read one the other day on this forum, but can't remember if it was a K1 or K3, so i can't yet vote.

Oh, another problem I just realized is that people can only vote once most likely. Hmmm....

[Robor007 0]

I was told by someone that K-3 visas are less scrutinized than K-1's because the K-3 already shows a marital bond/commitment between the couple. It does make sense to me. Based on our situation, I could've petitioned my current wife for a K-1 visa after meeting in person on the cruise ship she was working on in Jan of 2005. Instead I traveled to the Philippines to visit her in May for a week and we were engaged. I traveled to visit her again this past November for 3 weeks and we were married. Note that getting married in the Philippines takes 2+ weeks because of a 10 day waiting period for the marriage license.

I think there are many couples here who have seen each other much more often than three times (me and my husband included) and were still petitioning for a K1.

I don't see how a CO could really make a decision about how "serious" or "real" a relationship is by just considering if the couple is married or not. In my opinion, you will be more scrutinized if you have only seen your partner once or twice before either filing or marriage. And to me, that makes sense.

The decision on which type of visa to file for should be made with regards to the options each visa type has, such as time to possible employment once in the US, travel restriction etc. Again, just MHO.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying a K-3 is better than a K-1 and I agree with you in that it should always be a case-by-case basis. That's why I didn't vote by the way. My point is someone in our situation could spend a lot less time and money on a K-1 instead of a CR-1/K-3. Because of the 10 business day (more like 14 actual days) waiting period anyone marrying in the Philippines needs to spend over 2 weeks. From my area it's another 2.5 days of travel time on top of that. I have made 2 trips that are about 30 hours each way. I'm not complaining either - I'd go more often if I had enough time off work and the $$$ to do it. But I do hope that my doing that helps my wife in the 'proof of relationship dept' for the interview.

[Robor007 0]

Oh, another problem I just realized is that people can only vote once most likely. Hmmm....

I would ignore the poll results. As has been stated, there really is no definitive answer. It's not like a poll that asks, 'Is Paris Hilton a skank?'. Sorry, that's obvious, bad example. Better to say... 'Coke or Pepsi' With that at least you'll probably get honest votes. Well, until someone comes in with a script.

I'll admit that I don't know of a single person that I can say for sure got denied a visa because it was considered marriage fraud. Even if I did know someone who did there could be other circumstances in the case that are omitted. I suspect the only people that know the hard stats for sure are the USCIS, embassies, and consulates.