Fiance entering on tourist visa, then marrying...?

[John & Annie 0]

From the USCIS website:

A nonimmigrant is a foreign national seeking to enter the United States (U.S.) temporarily for a specific purpose. Nonimmigrants enter the U.S. for a temporary period of time, and once in the U.S. are restricted to the activity or reason for which their visa was issued. They may have more than one type of nonimmigrant visa but are admitted in only one status.

General requirements for foreign nationals seeking temporary admission include, but are not limited to, the following:

* The purpose of the visit must be temporary;

* The foreign national must agree to depart at the end of his/her authorized stay or extension;

* The foreign national must be in possession of a valid passport;

* A foreign residence must be maintained by the foreign national, in most instances;

* The foreign national may be required to show proof of financial support;

* The foreign national must be admissable or have obtained a waiver for any ground of inadmissability;

* The foreign national must abide by the terms and conditions of admission.

As stated before, if the intention changes after entry. That is a whole different ballgame.

But to have plans to get married already, clearly states intention.

Edited February 20, 2007 by John & Annie

[LaL 418]

From the USCIS website:

A nonimmigrant is a foreign national seeking to enter the United States (U.S.) temporarily for a specific purpose. Nonimmigrants enter the U.S. for a temporary period of time, and once in the U.S. are restricted to the activity or reason for which their visa was issued. They may have more than one type of nonimmigrant visa but are admitted in only one status.

General requirements for foreign nationals seeking temporary admission include, but are not limited to, the following:

* The purpose of the visit must be temporary;

* The foreign national must agree to depart at the end of his/her authorized stay or extension;

* The foreign national must be in possession of a valid passport;

* A foreign residence must be maintained by the foreign national, in most instances;

* The foreign national may be required to show proof of financial support;

* The foreign national must be admissable or have obtained a waiver for any ground of inadmissability;

* The foreign national must abide by the terms and conditions of admission.

As stated above, if the intention changes after entry. That is a whole different ballgame.

But to have plans to get married already clearly state intention.

its about intending to marry AND stay. you can plan to get married upon entry and just go home and do a K3 or CR1/IR1...

[John & Annie 0]

From the USCIS website:

A nonimmigrant is a foreign national seeking to enter the United States (U.S.) temporarily for a specific purpose. Nonimmigrants enter the U.S. for a temporary period of time, and once in the U.S. are restricted to the activity or reason for which their visa was issued. They may have more than one type of nonimmigrant visa but are admitted in only one status.

General requirements for foreign nationals seeking temporary admission include, but are not limited to, the following:

* The purpose of the visit must be temporary;

* The foreign national must agree to depart at the end of his/her authorized stay or extension;

* The foreign national must be in possession of a valid passport;

* A foreign residence must be maintained by the foreign national, in most instances;

* The foreign national may be required to show proof of financial support;

* The foreign national must be admissable or have obtained a waiver for any ground of inadmissability;

* The foreign national must abide by the terms and conditions of admission.

As stated above, if the intention changes after entry. That is a whole different ballgame.

But to have plans to get married already clearly state intention.

its about intending to marry AND stay. you can plan to get married upon entry and just go home and do a K3 or CR1/IR1...

Yes, thank you for the correction, that is what I meant.

[Boiler 45,908]

I have seen a few postings from people who were refused adjustment after entering on the VWP, not many but it certainly is not always a given.

If memory serves me correctly the last one came over on the VWP without intent to marry but did so. Anyway they then decided she should stay and adjust. Went on a cruise for honeymoon, re-entered on the VWP and filed a week later.

My wife had a consultation with a Lawyer who basically said just come on over marry and file, it varies but I had too many loose ends to go that route. I have nothing against those who can.

It would be pretty easy for the rules to not allow it.

[nathmc31 0]

Everyone will have their own interpretation of this topic, most because they are dirty that they had to wait in there home country thats fine, I did also. However, if it is as most of you say, then why are nearly all AOS of immediate relitives approved without even asking anything about their VWP entry, I will tell you why, Because its LEGAL, LEGAL, LEGAL. What is said to the immigration officer doesnt mean squat, as long as you were paroled into the US at a POE you CAN adjust if you are the immediate relitive of a USC.

You people go on and on and on about Intent, that is like me saying the sky is blue and someone else saying that it is clear but appears blue. It doesnt mean squat.

You all say it is Illegal but in fact weather in the back of you little mind you knew that you were going to stay and adjust, until they invent mind readers then the law will only apply to what is going on in reality. Reality being that they came here legaly and became the spouse of a USC. Everyone needs to stop being so upset by people looking to go this avenue because you all had to wait. Big deal.

u are arguing something completely different from what you are stating here. i realize the attempt is futile, but you are defending those who came here via VWP or whatever and adjusted saying thats ok. IT IS OK IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES ie: INTENT. i will give you a little anecdote:

it is not illegal under certain circumstances. good lord.

Yes those circumstances being that you are the Immediate relitive of a USC. Im not upset I just think that it is funny that everyone here gets on the bandwagon. At the end of the day, I am correct and you are all wrong!!! Bottom line...... if you enter on the VWP and remain as the immediate relitive of a USC you can AOS, intent will not be an issue when AOS because when entering at the POE you prove that you have no intent thats where the intent factor will die in USCIS eyes.

If someone enters with the thought of staying in the back of their head then that thought is probibly with 700 other thoughts that no one would know about, so everyone get over yourselves and listen to REALITY.

[riblet 0]

I think it's hilarious that you insist that you are right and everyone else is wrong (and that you are not upset despite the tone of your posts!). You are conflating two different issues - being admitted and not having intent, just because one is admitted does not mean they did not misrepresent themselves and that they are guaranteed home free and can adjust status.

Everyone will have their own interpretation of this topic, most because they are dirty that they had to wait in there home country thats fine, I did also. However, if it is as most of you say, then why are nearly all AOS of immediate relitives approved without even asking anything about their VWP entry, I will tell you why, Because its LEGAL, LEGAL, LEGAL. What is said to the immigration officer doesnt mean squat, as long as you were paroled into the US at a POE you CAN adjust if you are the immediate relitive of a USC.

You people go on and on and on about Intent, that is like me saying the sky is blue and someone else saying that it is clear but appears blue. It doesnt mean squat.

You all say it is Illegal but in fact weather in the back of you little mind you knew that you were going to stay and adjust, until they invent mind readers then the law will only apply to what is going on in reality. Reality being that they came here legaly and became the spouse of a USC. Everyone needs to stop being so upset by people looking to go this avenue because you all had to wait. Big deal.

u are arguing something completely different from what you are stating here. i realize the attempt is futile, but you are defending those who came here via VWP or whatever and adjusted saying thats ok. IT IS OK IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES ie: INTENT. i will give you a little anecdote:

it is not illegal under certain circumstances. good lord.

Yes those circumstances being that you are the Immediate relitive of a USC. Im not upset I just think that it is funny that everyone here gets on the bandwagon. At the end of the day, I am correct and you are all wrong!!! Bottom line...... if you enter on the VWP and remain as the immediate relitive of a USC you can AOS, intent will not be an issue when AOS because when entering at the POE you prove that you have no intent thats where the intent factor will die in USCIS eyes.

If someone enters with the thought of staying in the back of their head then that thought is probibly with 700 other thoughts that no one would know about, so everyone get over yourselves and listen to REALITY.

[LaL 418]

... my sides hurt...

[Kez/JWolf 6]

The bottom line is that if you enter on a VWP/tourist visa and then file for AOS, if USCIS see at interview that you have good enough evidence of a real marriage, then they probably will not even question you about intent at entry.... if on the other hand they have doubts about the validity of your marriage they could use your entry on the VWP/tourist visa as an avenue to give reason for denial...

There are risks of doing AOS from a VWP/tourist Visa the main one for VWP is that you have given up your rights to appeal against a denial so it is easier for USCIS to have you removed... if you are happy to take that risk then so be it... if not then go the K1/K3/CR1 route...

Kez

[Boiler 45,908]

Bottom line...... if you enter on the VWP and remain as the immediate relitive of a USC you can AOS, intent will not be an issue when AOS because when entering at the POE you prove that you have no intent thats where the intent factor will die in USCIS eyes.

You do not have to prove that you have no immigrant intent, no idea how you could do that anyway. You state that you do not.

People have been refused AoS for misuse of the VWP, not many, but they are out there.

[KarenCee 3]

Everyone will have their own interpretation of this topic, most because they are dirty that they had to wait in there home country thats fine, I did also. However, if it is as most of you say, then why are nearly all AOS of immediate relitives approved without even asking anything about their VWP entry, I will tell you why, Because its LEGAL, LEGAL, LEGAL. What is said to the immigration officer doesnt mean squat, as long as you were paroled into the US at a POE you CAN adjust if you are the immediate relitive of a USC.

You people go on and on and on about Intent, that is like me saying the sky is blue and someone else saying that it is clear but appears blue. It doesnt mean squat.

You all say it is Illegal but in fact weather in the back of you little mind you knew that you were going to stay and adjust, until they invent mind readers then the law will only apply to what is going on in reality. Reality being that they came here legaly and became the spouse of a USC. Everyone needs to stop being so upset by people looking to go this avenue because you all had to wait. Big deal.

u are arguing something completely different from what you are stating here. i realize the attempt is futile, but you are defending those who came here via VWP or whatever and adjusted saying thats ok. IT IS OK IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES ie: INTENT. i will give you a little anecdote:

it is not illegal under certain circumstances. good lord.

Yes those circumstances being that you are the Immediate relitive of a USC. Im not upset I just think that it is funny that everyone here gets on the bandwagon. At the end of the day, I am correct and you are all wrong!!! Bottom line...... if you enter on the VWP and remain as the immediate relitive of a USC you can AOS, intent will not be an issue when AOS because when entering at the POE you prove that you have no intent thats where the intent factor will die in USCIS eyes.

If someone enters with the thought of staying in the back of their head then that thought is probibly with 700 other thoughts that no one would know about, so everyone get over yourselves and listen to REALITY.

OH PUHLEEEEEEEEESE. You remind me of another one on here a couple months back who SWORE he was right about working without the EAD. Turns out he was WRONG! Isn't it possible that you COULD be wrong too? Just a question...curiosity really...how does one enter on the VWP as an Immdediate Relative if you aren't married yet? BTW...it's spelled relative, not relitive....probibly is spelled probably and you need an apostrophe in Im..I'm.

Most of the time when people ask about being denied entry at the POE they are told to make sure they have strong ties to their home country. IF the CBP is satisfied that you have no intentions of immigrating then one can enter successfully but that has NOTHING to do with AOS. IF while one is here and decided to on the spur of the moment get married...with NO intentions of doing that when entering on the VWP...that is NOT fraudulent.

BTW, I am over myself...I don't have any aspirations of being supremely right all the time and I am definitely IN the real world and I do know what reality is. Sounds like ya got a really big ego problem there buddy!

[Caladan 19]

When you enter on a nonimmigrant visa (excluding K-1/K-3) or the VWP, you are explicitly or implicitly asserting that your purpose is to visit/study/work/whatever, and then leave. When entering at the PoE, you assert it; if it turns out to be a lie, then you've lied. Saying "but the border officer believed my lie!" isn't going to help.

The K-1 is the non-immigrant visa that provides a path to adjust status. So it's illegal to use a tourist visa to come here and and intend to stay. There is nothing that screeching about sour grapes and people being jealous will do to make that legal.

meauxna nails it though. The practical consequences of using a tourist visa to marry and stay are in all likelihood nil, just like the practical consequences of my driving over the speed limit by 4 miles an hour are in all likelihood nil. That doesn't mean that adjusting status after using the VWP with immigrant intent is legal any more than it means the speed limit is really 69 miles an hour on I-95. And it doesn't mean that it would be good advice to say to a new driver "the speed limit is legally 69 miles an hour."

USCIS doesn't want to break up families any more than they have to, and starting deportation proceedings is a pain in the ###. Pulling people over for doing 69 in a 65 zone is a pain in the ### too, but again, none of this goes towards the legality of it. People can take risks if they want, but we're not going to say those risks are legal or negligible.

[Boiler 45,908]

When you enter on a nonimmigrant visa (excluding K-1/K-3) or the VWP, you are explicitly or implicitly asserting that your purpose is to visit/study/work/whatever, and then leave. When entering at the PoE, you assert it; if it turns out to be a lie, then you've lied. Saying "but the border officer believed my lie!" isn't going to help.

The K-1 is the non-immigrant visa that provides a path to adjust status. So it's illegal to use a tourist visa to come here and and intend to stay. There is nothing that screeching about sour grapes and people being jealous will do to make that legal.

meauxna nails it though. The practical consequences of using a tourist visa to marry and stay are in all likelihood nil, just like the practical consequences of my driving over the speed limit by 4 miles an hour are in all likelihood nil. That doesn't mean that adjusting status after using the VWP with immigrant intent is legal any more than it means the speed limit is really 69 miles an hour on I-95. And it doesn't mean that it would be good advice to say to a new driver "the speed limit is legally 69 miles an hour."

USCIS doesn't want to break up families any more than they have to, and starting deportation proceedings is a pain in the ###. Pulling people over for doing 69 in a 65 zone is a pain in the ### too, but again, none of this goes towards the legality of it. People can take risks if they want, but we're not going to say those risks are legal or negligible.

Like the analogy, whilst doing a few miles over most likely will not cause you grief, if you decide to overtake a police car doing the exact speed limit by those few miles per hour, then you can hardly complain about the ticket.

In both cases there is lee way, just do not take it too far.

[nathmc31 0]

Now you are personally attacking me, cheers. Back to the subject. To all of you who are attacking my comments, that is fine, you are all going on about 'weather they say they are going to stay and marry or not it is illegal'. Well everyone, a lesson in life; What a person is thinking is their business. If they don't share those thoughts then the are innocent of any kind of fraud. The fact of the matter is yes, thats right FACT of the matter is that if someone enters on the VWP and enters like everyone else and then gets married it is legal to AOS. If mum and dad enter on the VWP and stay and AOS it is legal.

Until USCIS obtains mind readers then the person AOS is innocent of any accusations.

You people saying that it doesn't matter because even if they had the intent in their minds then they are committing fraud, well I have one answer for you all. In reality where I live people's thoughts are their own business and thats that.

By the way I am not using an aggressive tone, and I know that I am certainly not right about everything like some of you guy's think you are. I just know that what I am saying about this subject is totally correct. The figures speak for themselves.

Oh and to another previous poster; I agree that if a marriage is clearly fraudulent then that person should be denied and sent packing weather AOS from VWP or AOS from any other type of visa. B) B) B) B)

Edited February 20, 2007 by nathmc31

[nathmc31 0]

Just a question...curiosity really...how does one enter on the VWP as an Immdediate Relative if you aren't married yet?

Check my posts, your immediate relatives include mum and dad and children under 21, not just spouse. Gee you are a real winner hey.

[Dr_LHA 3]

I've been looking into this, and must admit am having a hard time finding where in law it says that you can be denied AOS for having immigration intent. In fact there is a specific part of the INA where it says that the rule that you cannot adjust status if you arrive on a Visa Waiver does not apply to immediate relatives.

I'm not convinced like nathmc31 is, but I'd like to see a cogent argument as to why he is wrong, rather than just "convential wisdom".