Fiance entering on tourist visa, then marrying...?

[John & Annie 0]

You can circle around the risk/benefit as much as you like, the point is, the act itself (entry as a non-immigrant with the intent to imigrate on that entry) is illegal.

So is jaywalking. I am willing to take the risk of jaywalking most places because the risk (of punishment) is low, and even if caught, the stakes are low.

I am not willing to take that risk with US immigration. The stakes for me were too high, not just of a failed adjustment, but knowing the questions that come down the road at naturalization, and knowing that PR status, or even citizenship, can be revoked if material misrepresentations were made. I didn't want to be looking over my shoulder.

The guidelines of this community are that we do not promote illegal activities, especially in regard to immigration. If someone wants to do their research, draw their conclusions and make their own decision, that is for the individual couple to decide. They should have/get all the information to make that decision.

Actually....to have citzenship revoked is extremly hard, you have to have done something *really* wrong to get your citizenship taken away....once a citizen, always a citizen unless something SERIOUS has happened,...not something such as entering on the VWP and getting married and adjusting status.

Yes, while you are right that this seems such a trivial mater, I believe the point was that it is fraud. We are not talking about an incidental situation. We are talking about conspiracy to commit fraud. If that were proven, then yes. It is a clear case of fraud and that is an offense to have Citizenship revoked.

That being said, overstays and minor things are forgiven. And the likelihood of this happening in minimal, but fraud is fraud. I would not count on forgiveness for this.

[nathmc31 0]

You can circle around the risk/benefit as much as you like, the point is, the act itself (entry as a non-immigrant with the intent to imigrate on that entry) is illegal.

So is jaywalking. I am willing to take the risk of jaywalking most places because the risk (of punishment) is low, and even if caught, the stakes are low.

I am not willing to take that risk with US immigration. The stakes for me were too high, not just of a failed adjustment, but knowing the questions that come down the road at naturalization, and knowing that PR status, or even citizenship, can be revoked if material misrepresentations were made. I didn't want to be looking over my shoulder.

The guidelines of this community are that we do not promote illegal activities, especially in regard to immigration. If someone wants to do their research, draw their conclusions and make their own decision, that is for the individual couple to decide. They should have/get all the information to make that decision.

Actually....to have citzenship revoked is extremly hard, you have to have done something *really* wrong to get your citizenship taken away....once a citizen, always a citizen unless something SERIOUS has happened,...not something such as entering on the VWP and getting married and adjusting status.

Yes, while you are right that this seems such a trivial mater, I believe the point was that it is fraud. We are not talking about an incidental situation. We are talking about conspiracy to commit fraud. If that were proven, then yes. It is a clear case of fraud and that is an offense to have Citizenship revoked.

That being said, overstays and minor things are forgiven. And the likelihood of this happening in minimal, but fraud is fraud. I would not count on forgiveness for this.

get over yourself!!! It is not fraud. When you enter the US at the POE you have to prove to the Immigration officer's satisfaction that you are not an immigrant. If he or she alows you into the US then you have already proven that your 'INTENT' wasnt to immigrate. If after you have been alowed in you say get married weather planned or not, that is not illegal either because anyone can marry in the US on any visa. Immediate relatives are then alowed to AOS. How hard is that to under stand. Wife, Husband, mom, dad and kids under 21 can all LEGALY enter on the VWP to visit and if circumstances change, (which happens) then they AOS legally. Remeber that once you pass the POE you have satisfied the USCIS that you are not an immigrant.

Edited February 19, 2007 by nathmc31

[LaL 418]

You can circle around the risk/benefit as much as you like, the point is, the act itself (entry as a non-immigrant with the intent to imigrate on that entry) is illegal.

So is jaywalking. I am willing to take the risk of jaywalking most places because the risk (of punishment) is low, and even if caught, the stakes are low.

I am not willing to take that risk with US immigration. The stakes for me were too high, not just of a failed adjustment, but knowing the questions that come down the road at naturalization, and knowing that PR status, or even citizenship, can be revoked if material misrepresentations were made. I didn't want to be looking over my shoulder.

The guidelines of this community are that we do not promote illegal activities, especially in regard to immigration. If someone wants to do their research, draw their conclusions and make their own decision, that is for the individual couple to decide. They should have/get all the information to make that decision.

Actually....to have citzenship revoked is extremly hard, you have to have done something *really* wrong to get your citizenship taken away....once a citizen, always a citizen unless something SERIOUS has happened,...not something such as entering on the VWP and getting married and adjusting status.

Yes, while you are right that this seems such a trivial mater, I believe the point was that it is fraud. We are not talking about an incidental situation. We are talking about conspiracy to commit fraud. If that were proven, then yes. It is a clear case of fraud and that is an offense to have Citizenship revoked.

That being said, overstays and minor things are forgiven. And the likelihood of this happening in minimal, but fraud is fraud. I would not count on forgiveness for this.

get over yourself!!! It is not fraud. When you enter the US at the POE you have to prove to the Immigration officer's satisfaction that you are not an immigrant. If he or she alows you into the US then you have already proven that your 'INTENT' wasnt to immigrate. If after you have been alowed in you say get married weather planned or not, that is not illegal either because anyone can marry in the US on any visa. Immediate relatives are then alowed to AOS. How hard is that to under stand. Wife, Husband, mom, dad and kids under 21 can all LEGALY enter on the VWP to visit and if circumstances change, (which happens) then they AOS legally. Remeber that once you pass the POE you have satisfied the USCIS that you are not an immigrant.

the POE does not have jurisdiction to conduct interviews that would prevent you from successfully adjusting based on their findings. its a small piece of the bigger picture and your view appears to be very narrow on this matter.

[zyggy 9]

You can circle around the risk/benefit as much as you like, the point is, the act itself (entry as a non-immigrant with the intent to imigrate on that entry) is illegal.

So is jaywalking. I am willing to take the risk of jaywalking most places because the risk (of punishment) is low, and even if caught, the stakes are low.

I am not willing to take that risk with US immigration. The stakes for me were too high, not just of a failed adjustment, but knowing the questions that come down the road at naturalization, and knowing that PR status, or even citizenship, can be revoked if material misrepresentations were made. I didn't want to be looking over my shoulder.

The guidelines of this community are that we do not promote illegal activities, especially in regard to immigration. If someone wants to do their research, draw their conclusions and make their own decision, that is for the individual couple to decide. They should have/get all the information to make that decision.

Actually....to have citzenship revoked is extremly hard, you have to have done something *really* wrong to get your citizenship taken away....once a citizen, always a citizen unless something SERIOUS has happened,...not something such as entering on the VWP and getting married and adjusting status.

Yes, while you are right that this seems such a trivial mater, I believe the point was that it is fraud. We are not talking about an incidental situation. We are talking about conspiracy to commit fraud. If that were proven, then yes. It is a clear case of fraud and that is an offense to have Citizenship revoked.

That being said, overstays and minor things are forgiven. And the likelihood of this happening in minimal, but fraud is fraud. I would not count on forgiveness for this.

get over yourself!!! It is not fraud. When you enter the US at the POE you have to prove to the Immigration officer's satisfaction that you are not an immigrant. If he or she alows you into the US then you have already proven that your 'INTENT' wasnt to immigrate. If after you have been alowed in you say get married weather planned or not, that is not illegal either because anyone can marry in the US on any visa. Immediate relatives are then alowed to AOS. How hard is that to under stand. Wife, Husband, mom, dad and kids under 21 can all LEGALY enter on the VWP to visit and if circumstances change, (which happens) then they AOS legally. Remeber that once you pass the POE you have satisfied the USCIS that you are not an immigrant.

Absolutely not.. this is a complete falsehood... If one makes a misrepresentation in order to gain entry, then any benefit that is based on that entry is null and void. It doesn't matter if CBP let them into the country, if their determination was based on a material misrepresentation made by the alien... Remember that burden of proof is on the alien to prove that a misrepresentation was NOT made ...

Actually that is not the case... if at any time, the USCIS finds that the conditions of the initial entry to the US were fraudulent, then all the cases upon which were based on that entry would be fraudulent and any benefits that were granted based on those petitions would be revoked, including a grant of citizenship.

If what you suggest were the case, the an individual who committed war crimes could never get their citizenship revoked if they lied about their past or their intention when they entered the US. It makes no difference if it was a lie based on a war crime or your immigrant intention.. they are both the same thing.. a misrepresentation made in the course of entry into the US and both carry the same ultimate punishment.. revokation of any benefit based on the misrepresentation.

Edited February 19, 2007 by zyggy

[Boiler 45,537]

You can circle around the risk/benefit as much as you like, the point is, the act itself (entry as a non-immigrant with the intent to imigrate on that entry) is illegal.

So is jaywalking. I am willing to take the risk of jaywalking most places because the risk (of punishment) is low, and even if caught, the stakes are low.

I am not willing to take that risk with US immigration. The stakes for me were too high, not just of a failed adjustment, but knowing the questions that come down the road at naturalization, and knowing that PR status, or even citizenship, can be revoked if material misrepresentations were made. I didn't want to be looking over my shoulder.

The guidelines of this community are that we do not promote illegal activities, especially in regard to immigration. If someone wants to do their research, draw their conclusions and make their own decision, that is for the individual couple to decide. They should have/get all the information to make that decision.

Actually....to have citzenship revoked is extremly hard, you have to have done something *really* wrong to get your citizenship taken away....once a citizen, always a citizen unless something SERIOUS has happened,...not something such as entering on the VWP and getting married and adjusting status.

Yes, while you are right that this seems such a trivial mater, I believe the point was that it is fraud. We are not talking about an incidental situation. We are talking about conspiracy to commit fraud. If that were proven, then yes. It is a clear case of fraud and that is an offense to have Citizenship revoked.

That being said, overstays and minor things are forgiven. And the likelihood of this happening in minimal, but fraud is fraud. I would not count on forgiveness for this.

get over yourself!!! It is not fraud. When you enter the US at the POE you have to prove to the Immigration officer's satisfaction that you are not an immigrant. If he or she alows you into the US then you have already proven that your 'INTENT' wasnt to immigrate. If after you have been alowed in you say get married weather planned or not, that is not illegal either because anyone can marry in the US on any visa. Immediate relatives are then alowed to AOS. How hard is that to under stand. Wife, Husband, mom, dad and kids under 21 can all LEGALY enter on the VWP to visit and if circumstances change, (which happens) then they AOS legally. Remeber that once you pass the POE you have satisfied the USCIS that you are not an immigrant.

That's just plain wrong.

[JenT 0]

You can circle around the risk/benefit as much as you like, the point is, the act itself (entry as a non-immigrant with the intent to imigrate on that entry) is illegal.

So is jaywalking. I am willing to take the risk of jaywalking most places because the risk (of punishment) is low, and even if caught, the stakes are low.

I am not willing to take that risk with US immigration. The stakes for me were too high, not just of a failed adjustment, but knowing the questions that come down the road at naturalization, and knowing that PR status, or even citizenship, can be revoked if material misrepresentations were made. I didn't want to be looking over my shoulder.

The guidelines of this community are that we do not promote illegal activities, especially in regard to immigration. If someone wants to do their research, draw their conclusions and make their own decision, that is for the individual couple to decide. They should have/get all the information to make that decision.

Actually....to have citzenship revoked is extremly hard, you have to have done something *really* wrong to get your citizenship taken away....once a citizen, always a citizen unless something SERIOUS has happened,...not something such as entering on the VWP and getting married and adjusting status.

Yes, while you are right that this seems such a trivial mater, I believe the point was that it is fraud. We are not talking about an incidental situation. We are talking about conspiracy to commit fraud. If that were proven, then yes. It is a clear case of fraud and that is an offense to have Citizenship revoked.

That being said, overstays and minor things are forgiven. And the likelihood of this happening in minimal, but fraud is fraud. I would not count on forgiveness for this.

get over yourself!!! It is not fraud. When you enter the US at the POE you have to prove to the Immigration officer's satisfaction that you are not an immigrant. If he or she alows you into the US then you have already proven that your 'INTENT' wasnt to immigrate. If after you have been alowed in you say get married weather planned or not, that is not illegal either because anyone can marry in the US on any visa. Immediate relatives are then alowed to AOS. How hard is that to under stand. Wife, Husband, mom, dad and kids under 21 can all LEGALY enter on the VWP to visit and if circumstances change, (which happens) then they AOS legally. Remeber that once you pass the POE you have satisfied the USCIS that you are not an immigrant.

Absolutely not.. this is a complete falsehood... If one makes a misrepresentation in order to gain entry, then any benefit that is based on that entry is null and void. It doesn't matter if CBP let them into the country, if their determination was based on a material misrepresentation made by the alien... Remember that burden of proof is on the alien to prove that a misrepresentation was NOT made ...

Actually that is not the case... if at any time, the USCIS finds that the conditions of the initial entry to the US were fraudulent, then all the cases upon which were based on that entry would be fraudulent and any benefits that were granted based on those petitions would be revoked, including a grant of citizenship.

If what you suggest were the case, the an individual who committed war crimes could never get their citizenship revoked if they lied about their past or their intention when they entered the US. It makes no difference if it was a lie based on a war crime or your immigrant intention.. they are both the same thing.. a misrepresentation made in the course of entry into the US and both carry the same ultimate punishment.. revokation of any benefit based on the misrepresentation.

Well summarized.

[John & Annie 0]

You can circle around the risk/benefit as much as you like, the point is, the act itself (entry as a non-immigrant with the intent to imigrate on that entry) is illegal.

So is jaywalking. I am willing to take the risk of jaywalking most places because the risk (of punishment) is low, and even if caught, the stakes are low.

I am not willing to take that risk with US immigration. The stakes for me were too high, not just of a failed adjustment, but knowing the questions that come down the road at naturalization, and knowing that PR status, or even citizenship, can be revoked if material misrepresentations were made. I didn't want to be looking over my shoulder.

The guidelines of this community are that we do not promote illegal activities, especially in regard to immigration. If someone wants to do their research, draw their conclusions and make their own decision, that is for the individual couple to decide. They should have/get all the information to make that decision.

Actually....to have citzenship revoked is extremly hard, you have to have done something *really* wrong to get your citizenship taken away....once a citizen, always a citizen unless something SERIOUS has happened,...not something such as entering on the VWP and getting married and adjusting status.

Yes, while you are right that this seems such a trivial mater, I believe the point was that it is fraud. We are not talking about an incidental situation. We are talking about conspiracy to commit fraud. If that were proven, then yes. It is a clear case of fraud and that is an offense to have Citizenship revoked.

That being said, overstays and minor things are forgiven. And the likelihood of this happening in minimal, but fraud is fraud. I would not count on forgiveness for this.

get over yourself!!! It is not fraud. When you enter the US at the POE you have to prove to the Immigration officer's satisfaction that you are not an immigrant. If he or she alows you into the US then you have already proven that your 'INTENT' wasnt to immigrate. If after you have been alowed in you say get married weather planned or not, that is not illegal either because anyone can marry in the US on any visa. Immediate relatives are then alowed to AOS. How hard is that to under stand. Wife, Husband, mom, dad and kids under 21 can all LEGALY enter on the VWP to visit and if circumstances change, (which happens) then they AOS legally. Remeber that once you pass the POE you have satisfied the USCIS that you are not an immigrant.

it sounds like we are talking about two different circumstances

What I am talking about is the specific circumstance which the OP is planning on entering on the VWP and getting married. This has been declared in the OP.

If you come over and the immigration officer asks your purpose, which they do. You answer honestly and tell them your coming over to get married, they can and probably will deny you entry into the US.

Therefore, if they ask, you lie, you commit fraud.

[meauxna 15]

You can circle around the risk/benefit as much as you like, the point is, the act itself (entry as a non-immigrant with the intent to imigrate on that entry) is illegal.

So is jaywalking. I am willing to take the risk of jaywalking most places because the risk (of punishment) is low, and even if caught, the stakes are low.

I am not willing to take that risk with US immigration. The stakes for me were too high, not just of a failed adjustment, but knowing the questions that come down the road at naturalization, and knowing that PR status, or even citizenship, can be revoked if material misrepresentations were made. I didn't want to be looking over my shoulder.

The guidelines of this community are that we do not promote illegal activities, especially in regard to immigration. If someone wants to do their research, draw their conclusions and make their own decision, that is for the individual couple to decide. They should have/get all the information to make that decision.

Actually....to have citzenship revoked is extremly hard, you have to have done something *really* wrong to get your citizenship taken away....once a citizen, always a citizen unless something SERIOUS has happened,...not something such as entering on the VWP and getting married and adjusting status.

Yes, while you are right that this seems such a trivial mater, I believe the point was that it is fraud. We are not talking about an incidental situation. We are talking about conspiracy to commit fraud. If that were proven, then yes. It is a clear case of fraud and that is an offense to have Citizenship revoked.

That being said, overstays and minor things are forgiven. And the likelihood of this happening in minimal, but fraud is fraud. I would not count on forgiveness for this.

get over yourself!!! It is not fraud. When you enter the US at the POE you have to prove to the Immigration officer's satisfaction that you are not an immigrant. If he or she alows you into the US then you have already proven that your 'INTENT' wasnt to immigrate. If after you have been alowed in you say get married weather planned or not, that is not illegal either because anyone can marry in the US on any visa. Immediate relatives are then alowed to AOS. How hard is that to under stand. Wife, Husband, mom, dad and kids under 21 can all LEGALY enter on the VWP to visit and if circumstances change, (which happens) then they AOS legally. Remeber that once you pass the POE you have satisfied the USCIS that you are not an immigrant.

Absolutely not.. this is a complete falsehood... If one makes a misrepresentation in order to gain entry, then any benefit that is based on that entry is null and void. It doesn't matter if CBP let them into the country, if their determination was based on a material misrepresentation made by the alien... Remember that burden of proof is on the alien to prove that a misrepresentation was NOT made ...

Actually that is not the case... if at any time, the USCIS finds that the conditions of the initial entry to the US were fraudulent, then all the cases upon which were based on that entry would be fraudulent and any benefits that were granted based on those petitions would be revoked, including a grant of citizenship.

If what you suggest were the case, the an individual who committed war crimes could never get their citizenship revoked if they lied about their past or their intention when they entered the US. It makes no difference if it was a lie based on a war crime or your immigrant intention.. they are both the same thing.. a misrepresentation made in the course of entry into the US and both carry the same ultimate punishment.. revokation of any benefit based on the misrepresentation.

I'm glad I kept reading instead of just replying to Bret.

thanks for the expansion, zyg.

[Boiler 45,537]

The Form rather says it all:

Welcome to the United States

I-94W Nonimmigrant Visa Waiver Arrival/Departure Form

Instructions

This form must be completed by every nonimmigrant visitor not in possession of a visitor's visa, who is a national of one of the countries enumerated in 8 CFR 217. The airline can provide you with the current list of eligible countries.

So you complete it and hand it in, you may be asked questions or not, I have never been asked anything other than very basic questions. Certainly nothing on the lines of are you going to marry and adjust. But it does not really matter, I do not believe they keep a transcript, or more precisely I have never heard of anyone been quizzed on what they did or did not say at the PoE.

The issue always is whether if you subsequently want to change to something other than nonimmigrant visitor, you misrepresented yourself at entry.

As has been said, unless you make it really obvious they usually do not push it when adjusting status following marriage. Which makes sense to me. Why bother, unless someone is seriously taking the piss.

Edited February 19, 2007 by Boiler

[Kez/JWolf 6]

I and many others were never asked anything about our entry on a VWP at our AOS interview.... but I would never encourage anyine to plan on entering with intent to do AOS...

Kez

[nathmc31 0]

Everyone will have their own interpretation of this topic, most because they are dirty that they had to wait in there home country thats fine, I did also. However, if it is as most of you say, then why are nearly all AOS of immediate relitives approved without even asking anything about their VWP entry, I will tell you why, Because its LEGAL, LEGAL, LEGAL. What is said to the immigration officer doesnt mean squat, as long as you were paroled into the US at a POE you CAN adjust if you are the immediate relitive of a USC.

You people go on and on and on about Intent, that is like me saying the sky is blue and someone else saying that it is clear but appears blue. It doesnt mean squat.

You all say it is Illegal but in fact weather in the back of you little mind you knew that you were going to stay and adjust, until they invent mind readers then the law will only apply to what is going on in reality. Reality being that they came here legaly and became the spouse of a USC. Everyone needs to stop being so upset by people looking to go this avenue because you all had to wait. Big deal.

[Dr_LHA 3]

"Getting away with it" is not the same as something being "legal".

[John & Annie 0]

Everyone will have their own interpretation of this topic, most because they are dirty that they had to wait in there home country thats fine, I did also. However, if it is as most of you say, then why are nearly all AOS of immediate relitives approved without even asking anything about their VWP entry, I will tell you why, Because its LEGAL, LEGAL, LEGAL. What is said to the immigration officer doesnt mean squat, as long as you were paroled into the US at a POE you CAN adjust if you are the immediate relitive of a USC.

You people go on and on and on about Intent, that is like me saying the sky is blue and someone else saying that it is clear but appears blue. It doesnt mean squat.

You all say it is Illegal but in fact weather in the back of you little mind you knew that you were going to stay and adjust, until they invent mind readers then the law will only apply to what is going on in reality. Reality being that they came here legaly and became the spouse of a USC. Everyone needs to stop being so upset by people looking to go this avenue because you all had to wait. Big deal.

It seems to me that you are the only one getting "upset"

What you are saying is that it is ok to lie because you can.

Edited February 19, 2007 by John & Annie

[LaL 418]

Everyone will have their own interpretation of this topic, most because they are dirty that they had to wait in there home country thats fine, I did also. However, if it is as most of you say, then why are nearly all AOS of immediate relitives approved without even asking anything about their VWP entry, I will tell you why, Because its LEGAL, LEGAL, LEGAL. What is said to the immigration officer doesnt mean squat, as long as you were paroled into the US at a POE you CAN adjust if you are the immediate relitive of a USC.

You people go on and on and on about Intent, that is like me saying the sky is blue and someone else saying that it is clear but appears blue. It doesnt mean squat.

You all say it is Illegal but in fact weather in the back of you little mind you knew that you were going to stay and adjust, until they invent mind readers then the law will only apply to what is going on in reality. Reality being that they came here legaly and became the spouse of a USC. Everyone needs to stop being so upset by people looking to go this avenue because you all had to wait. Big deal.

u are arguing something completely different from what you are stating here. i realize the attempt is futile, but you are defending those who came here via VWP or whatever and adjusted saying thats ok. IT IS OK IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES ie: INTENT. i will give you a little anecdote:

My fiance came to visit me a 4th time and we decided that we would like to make the US our home. we went to USCIS.gov and got overwhelmed, so we went on over to an immigration attorney's office. He said - my fiance never has to leave! our jaws dropped to the floor and asked him to explain (too good to be true!). he went on to explain : apartment in home country, job, car, return plane ticket and most of all that he had come for a visit only with INTENT to return home! we subsequently went with the K1 anyway.

our *arguing* with you has NOTHING to do with jealousy of those who were able to adjust from VWP, etc. it has to do with you repeatedly focusing on the wrong part of the story.

it is not illegal under certain circumstances. good lord.

[antda 13]

Hi LorraV,

Welcome to vj. Good luck on your immigration journey. From personal experience, arriving in the USA on a visitor's visa, getting married, and then applying for an AOS is legal to do. This is provided if they DID NOT come into the USA with the intention of immigration fraud by getting married here in the USA. The AOS this way worked for me (as I got my AOS approved/Green Card), but I can't say that it will work for everyone else, as every situation is different.

My best advice to your friend and to anyone else: Hire a good immigration lawyer.

Ant

I have heard that my fiance (Australian) can enter the U.S. on a tourist visa and we can married within several days. Then he can apply for a temporary work permit and may be able to work within 6 weeks.

Since we are entering the U.S. March 5th (in just 25 days) and we need income, the quicker the better.

Has anyone tried this? Does anyone know if there are consequences for going against the tourist visa to marry?

My fiance wants to become a permanent resident and, in several years, a U.S. citizen, so we don't want to do anything to jeopardize this.

We have not applied for any visas yet because my divorce is not yet finalized (should be finalized within one month).

Any advice would be helpful...

I have been overseas for seven months (all over Europe and AUS) and I really just want to go home, but I'm starting to think we may have to live in AUS for a while again while we wait for visas.

Sorry for all the questions!-- I'm totally lost here.