Jobs program for ISIS the solution, not killing them

[JohnR! 5,495]

I use my own quality filters and I always respond to posts in kind - it's only fair. There's only so much the mods and do and they're human. I am my own moderator.

This is my problem with a lot of the content here - many of the threads are trash that promote fringe, usually bigoted agendas if they even make sense at all. It's something posters here have been saying for years.

You'd think that the mod team would have more interest in policing that than they actually do.

Imo there should be a minimum quality standard for posting about political topics. That's often how it's done on other forums with the level of moderation that VJ has.

[khwaidee1 196]

I disagree. The initial post and its premise is so inane that turning it into a cogent discussion would dignify it in an unwarranted manner. Being dumb is actually responding in kind and keeping it at the level intended by the op.

Thanks for figuring out why I posted it in the first place, I wasn't even sure. Actually, I posted it because it sounded ludicrous and I was even more flabbergasted by her attempts to explain it later. I get it, there is no simple solution, no "silver bullet" but, the WH's suggestions at a solution continue to ignore the root problem. These guys don't need jobs, they have one and belong to an organization. We destabilized the region by going into Iraq but, having conferences on being more inclusive and giving jobs to these guys is not the solution IMHO. I read some excerpts in WSJ on Saturday of "What ISIS Really Wants," written by Graeme Wood and published in the March issue of The Atlantic and it sounded like it will be a good essay on the issue.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Thanks for figuring out why I posted it in the first place,

Not to worry. Libs like a circle jerk, and your post was just eye candy.

[decocker 7,198]

it's too dumb to take at face value. i'm sure this blurb was crafted and released into the media wild on purpose with specific intent. does anyone believe any administration would openly flap their gums day in and out concerning actual strategy?

[JohnR! 5,495]

I agree. There isn't a single or simple solution for the problem, but I also believe that we should look back at where groups such as ISIS begun. What prompted their congealing and organizing. At some point their members made a choice and it would interesting finding out what the moment was and the conditions that prompted the choice. I'd bet there is a large economic component to that equation.

Thanks for figuring out why I posted it in the first place, I wasn't even sure. Actually, I posted it because it sounded ludicrous and I was even more flabbergasted by her attempts to explain it later. I get it, there is no simple solution, no "silver bullet" but, the WH's suggestions at a solution continue to ignore the root problem. These guys don't need jobs, they have one and belong to an organization. We destabilized the region by going into Iraq but, having conferences on being more inclusive and giving jobs to these guys is not the solution IMHO. I read some excerpts in WSJ on Saturday of "What ISIS Really Wants," written by Graeme Wood and published in the March issue of The Atlantic and it sounded like it will be a good essay on the issue.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

it's too dumb to take at face value. i'm sure this blurb was crafted and released into the media wild on purpose with specific intent. does anyone believe any administration would openly flap their gums day in and out concerning actual strategy?

And, yet they did, as far a when they were going to attack Mosul, and the order of battle - a total no-no for COMSEC.

[JohnR! 5,495]

He has a bunkerfull of Jergens and ammo... He's set for Armageddon.. :rofl:

Not to worry. Libs like a circle jerk, and your post was just eye candy.

[decocker 7,198]

And, yet they did, as far a when they were going to attack Mosul, and the order of battle - a total no-no for COMSEC.

ya never know.

[khwaidee1 196]

it's too dumb to take at face value. i'm sure this blurb was crafted and released into the media wild on purpose with specific intent. does anyone believe any administration would openly flap their gums day in and out concerning actual strategy?

If you listened to her efforts to defend her position, she was really, really into it. If it was a blurb meant to mislead, she should have been on stage last night. Well, they've announced that there will be a massive assault on Mosul coming up and that has apparently really pissed off the Iraqis. Usually not a good idea to tell the other side what you're up to. I fear that going into Mosul will be like going into Kigali in 1994, we had some idea of what was going on but not until the slaughter stopped could we truly see it.

[decocker 7,198]

If you listened to her efforts to defend her position, she was really, really into it. If it was a blurb meant to mislead, she should have been on stage last night. Well, they've announced that there will be a massive assault on Mosul coming up and that has apparently really pissed off the Iraqis. Usually not a good idea to tell the other side what you're up to. I fear that going into Mosul will be like going into Kigali in 1994, we had some idea of what was going on but not until the slaughter stopped could we truly see it.

i haven't listened to her blurb or efforts to defend it. just saying, i don't put too much weight on any particular blurb or defense when the war machine is trumpeting.

[khwaidee1 196]

I agree. There isn't a single or simple solution for the problem, but I also believe that we should look back at where groups such as ISIS begun. What prompted their congealing and organizing. At some point their members made a choice and it would interesting finding out what the moment was and the conditions that prompted the choice. I'd bet there is a large economic component to that equation.

How far back do want to go? Some of these guys still preach about King Richard invading Jerusalem and the valiant Suleiman. Most are adherent Wahhabism believers and would be happy, and truly want, to go back to the 8th century. Then there's oil, WWII, artificial borders, Israel, CIA meddling.......You've got over 1300 years of hate to overcome. And, it is about religion, these guys believe we are at end of days and that they are the ones and that they are doing what their god has commanded them to do. Hard to argue with that.

[JohnR! 5,495]

You only need to go as far back as the moment each individual chose one path over another. They all come from different countries where others, under similar circumstances, made different choices.

How far back do want to go? Some of these guys still preach about King Richard invading Jerusalem and the valiant Suleiman. Most are adherent Wahhabism believers and would be happy, and truly want, to go back to the 8th century. Then there's oil, WWII, artificial borders, Israel, CIA meddling.......You've got over 1300 years of hate to overcome. And, it is about religion, these guys believe we are at end of days and that they are the ones and that they are doing what their god has commanded them to do. Hard to argue with that.

[khwaidee1 196]

You only need to go as far back as the moment each individual chose one path over another. They all come from different countries where others, under similar circumstances, made different choices.

Most are from the ME, primarily Iraq, Syria. In addition to the Iraqis and Syrians:

The fighters are identified as coming from 50 different nations, including some 4,000 from the dozen-plus nations of Western Europe.

“This is nearly double the figure we presented in December 2013, and exceeds the latest estimates by European Union officials,” the report said.

The report said 1,200 of the fighters have come from France, and another 500-600 each from the United Kingdom and Germany. But Belgium produced the highest per capita participation, with 40 fighters per million population, it said.

“With up to 11,000, the Middle East remains the dominant source of foreigners in the conflict. Another 3,000 were from countries of the former Soviet Union,” the report said.

The number of foreigners who have fought, or are fighting, in the regional political and religious clash “now surpasses the Afghanistan conflict in the 1980s, which is thought to have attracted up to 20,000 foreigners,” the institute reported.

From the rest of the world, Tunisia is thought to have allowed up to 3,000 to go to fight jihad, while the number attributed to Saudi Arabia is up to 2,500. Jordan, Russia and Morocco are thought to have allowed up to 1,500 to go each.

The one thing that unifies them is that they are Sunni. The majority of people they have killer are muslims. That's a lot of paths to look at. Better to look at it is what unified these men in the first place. They are doing god's will, which makes a worthy endeavor in their minds I would think.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Therein lies the rub. I have no doubt that in the mind of the minions, they are doing god's will, but that is so only because someone higher up is feeding them the Kool-Aid. At some point those who are being recruited decided to join the campaign, but they had to be recruited in the first place, and they need to be continually fed the message. That's how one might start planning cleaning up house.

Most are from the ME, primarily Iraq, Syria. In addition to the Iraqis and Syrians:

The fighters are identified as coming from 50 different nations, including some 4,000 from the dozen-plus nations of Western Europe.

“This is nearly double the figure we presented in December 2013, and exceeds the latest estimates by European Union officials,” the report said.

The report said 1,200 of the fighters have come from France, and another 500-600 each from the United Kingdom and Germany. But Belgium produced the highest per capita participation, with 40 fighters per million population, it said.

“With up to 11,000, the Middle East remains the dominant source of foreigners in the conflict. Another 3,000 were from countries of the former Soviet Union,” the report said.

The number of foreigners who have fought, or are fighting, in the regional political and religious clash “now surpasses the Afghanistan conflict in the 1980s, which is thought to have attracted up to 20,000 foreigners,” the institute reported.

From the rest of the world, Tunisia is thought to have allowed up to 3,000 to go to fight jihad, while the number attributed to Saudi Arabia is up to 2,500. Jordan, Russia and Morocco are thought to have allowed up to 1,500 to go each.

The one thing that unifies them is that they are Sunni. The majority of people they have killer are muslims. That's a lot of paths to look at. Better to look at it is what unified these men in the first place. They are doing god's will, which makes a worthy endeavor in their minds I would think.

Edited February 23, 2015 by JohnR!

[khwaidee1 196]

The internet and social media as well as a general detachment from society seem to be a plausible reason, kind of like the two 12 year old girls in Wisconsin who stabbed their friend 19 times because "Slenderman" said so. These poor girls going to Syria have no idea what they're up against.

The utopian ideals that attract females to Islamic State

20 February 2015 Last updated at 17:37 GMT

Three schoolgirls from east London have flown to Turkey, amid fears they may be travelling to Syria to join the Islamic State terrorist group.

Dr Erin Saltman is a researcher at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue, and has looked into why women from the West join Islamic State.

Dr Saltman said part of the attraction was "adventure seeking and being part of a romantic journey", whereas the reality was "quite grim".

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31547091

Edited February 23, 2015 by khwaidee1