UK VJers Progress Update Thread

[ChasUno 101]

As far as I understand, being turned away doesn't reflect poorly on your visa application it's just a pain. The risk is financial/emotional on you. As long as you understand you may be turned away, and have to deal with that if it happens. You can fly via Ireland with aer lingus (they do pre-clearance there, so if you were denied you only have to fly back from Ireland). Maybe someone else could clarify, if I am mistaken?

Being turned away (denied entry) by a CBP can have very serious implications, as it normally comes with a minimum of a 5 year ban on re-entry, and once that ban has been lifted that person still faces restrictions and limiting conditions that could cause issues with any further visa applications. How it would affect someone already in the process of applying for a visa I don't know, though bear in mind that one of the questions asked is "have you ever been denied entry to the USA" on the VWP (I forget if the I-129F also asked this). With BryterMoon only looking at about 4 weeks or so before getting their K1 visa, I really feel it's best not to take a chance and just hold on a little longer for the K1 to be issued.

[BryterMoon 30]

I appreciate your input everyone, its very much a heart says go, head says no situation. 3 weeks isn't a long time in grand scheme of life, i can use this time to pack all my bits and bobs, say goodbye to family, work friends, organize leaving drinks etc. Just gotta keep busy and the time will fly. Soon enough ill be back in the arms of the beautiful Erin and with her forever.

[UKPaul 12]

Being turned away (denied entry) by a CBP can have very serious implications, as it normally comes with a minimum of a 5 year ban on re-entry, and once that ban has been lifted that person still faces restrictions and limiting conditions that could cause issues with any further visa applications. How it would affect someone already in the process of applying for a visa I don't know, though bear in mind that one of the questions asked is "have you ever been denied entry to the USA" on the VWP (I forget if the I-129F also asked this). With BryterMoon only looking at about 4 weeks or so before getting their K1 visa, I really feel it's best not to take a chance and just hold on a little longer for the K1 to be issued.

I would think that depends on the reason for being turned away. If you lie to them or give them reason to think you are doing something you shouldn't, then understandably there can be issues. But he has every legal right to attempt to enter on the VWP, if they decide he should just wait out for his visa to be granted that's their call, as long as he is truthful and cooperative, all should be okay. I've seen a few people in the 'can I visit" forum say they've been denied, but never mentioned issues arising from it. I agree it may be more sensible to wait, but it seems absurd that they would ban you for 5 years, when you've done nothing remotely wrong.

[ChasUno 101]

I would think that depends on the reason for being turned away. If you lie to them or give them reason to think you are doing something you shouldn't, then understandably there can be issues. But he has every legal right to attempt to enter on the VWP, if they decide he should just wait out for his visa to be granted that's their call, as long as he is truthful and cooperative, all should be okay. I've seen a few people in the 'can I visit" forum say they've been denied, but never mentioned issues arising from it. I agree it may be more sensible to wait, but it seems absurd that they would ban you for 5 years, when you've done nothing remotely wrong.

You could say that about a friend of mine I mentioned earlier in this thread, he did nothing wrong other than to make repeat visits under the visa waiver programme. He was denied re-entry and then banned for 5 years. Their suspicion was that he was going to disappear, or that he would seek to work illegally despite having kept completely above the law during all his previous visits. Appealing to Congressmen, DHS or even the President is futile, as they will all say that the decisions of the CBP/ DHS is final and cannot be appealed.

Much is down to the CBP officer you are dealing with upon arriving. If they feel that you are likely to not adhere to the requirements, that alone can be a reason for them to deny entry with the ramifications that come with that decision. Also, no-one has the "legal right to enter on the VWP". Check the wording on a valid ESTA - you are cleared to TRAVEL to the USA on the VWP, the ultimate decision as to whether you will be allowed in is down to the CBP officer you deal with at passport control.

Sadly there appears to be a lack of consistency with CBP officers in terms of decisions and with attitude. My experiences with them is that I've been dealt with by some of the most nasty people out of all the countries in the world I've ever visited, and I've also been dealt with by some of the nicest too. It's a total lottery. I've also sometimes gone straight through without a question, and other times been pulled into an interview room/ holding area and made to wait three hours to be interviewed/ grilled by another CBP officer.

The moral of the story is to not ever mess with, or take chances with the CBP, because quite frankly, they are a law unto themselves and have the power to make your life very, very difficult when it comes to visiting the USA.

[UKPaul 12]

You could say that about a friend of mine I mentioned earlier in this thread, he did nothing wrong other than to make repeat visits under the visa waiver programme. He was denied re-entry and then banned for 5 years. Their suspicion was that he was going to disappear, or that he would seek to work illegally despite having kept completely above the law during all his previous visits. Appealing to Congressmen, DHS or even the President is futile, as they will all say that the decisions of the CBP/ DHS is final and cannot be appealed.

Much is down to the CBP officer you are dealing with upon arriving. If they feel that you are likely to not adhere to the requirements, that alone can be a reason for them to deny entry with the ramifications that come with that decision. Also, no-one has the "legal right to enter on the VWP". Check the wording on a valid ESTA - you are cleared to TRAVEL to the USA on the VWP, the ultimate decision as to whether you will be allowed in is down to the CBP officer you deal with at passport control.

Sadly there appears to be a lack of consistency with CBP officers in terms of decisions and with attitude. My experiences with them is that I've been dealt with by some of the most nasty people out of all the countries in the world I've ever visited, and I've also been dealt with by some of the nicest too. It's a total lottery. I've also sometimes gone straight through without a question, and other times been pulled into an interview room/ holding area and made to wait three hours to be interviewed/ grilled by another CBP officer.

The moral of the story is to not ever mess with, or take chances with the CBP, because quite frankly, they are a law unto themselves and have the power to make your life very, very difficult when it comes to visiting the USA.

If we have evidence that it has happened to people in this situation who actually did nothing wrong, then fair enough. Also, I said "legal right to attempt to enter on the VWP". Check the wording of the OP.

[yuna628 9,676]

I'd rather take my chances with a grumpy CBP than an IO in the UK any day. ;-)

Though Chas, I have to say I can understand why the officer denied your friend or was suspicious. It is never advisable to do what they did, and I've read of many instances of this happening to those staying for a long period on the VWP, then going to Canada and then trying to come back in. It's not fair no, and I'm sure they were treated rather horrible, but this does happen. I'm not saying that your friend did anything wrong, or had the intent to do wrong -- but it is generally thought of to be at least risky (more risky than average) to do what they did.

I have also heard of some instances of a person being allowed to 'withdraw' rather than face a ban (depends on the stamp). They would still have to answer yes on an ESTA, so there is still a risk of being refused. But this should still not be problematic or effect a K-1 application from being approved.

CBP also states that while you are not barred from trying to use the VWP while having an application pending you may be subject to higher scrutiny. We certainly know from experience on the big ''can you visit'' thread that you can successfully visit with little to no problems. Being very prepared often helps in the times a CBP decides to give you a bad day. Would I personally risk it? No. Not because it would affect his application, but merely because I would not want him to go through an experience I would not wish upon anyone should it happen - even if those odds are slim.

Edited May 29, 2015 by yuna628

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

Being turned away (denied entry) by a CBP can have very serious implications, as it normally comes with a minimum of a 5 year ban on re-entry, .

I just really don't believe this. It is not normal to be banned any entry to the US just for being turned away. Maybe banned from being allowed to use VWP. But a turned away person could seek a visitor visa or immigrant visa. Of course anybody without a job and strong ties/responsibility in the UK is likely going to be denied a visitor visa. London is pretty strict when it comes to giving those. I have read a LOT of people on VJ who were denied visitor visas in London. And there are even more who got sent back by CBP, yet still got their fiancé or spouse visas and had no issues at POE.

The stay 90 days, then go over to Canada and try to come back for 90 more is something CBP is wise to. It eventually catches up to you because it's trying to be tricky. I do know of a former mod on here whose boyfriend pulled it off for over 18 months before being busted (circa 2006-7). He got his fiancé visa 2008. That is in no way akin to a person with a pregnant fiancé who has a return ticket and an interview letter in hand..

Edited May 29, 2015 by Nich-Nick

[ChasUno 101]

If we have evidence that it has happened to people in this situation who actually did nothing wrong, then fair enough. Also, I said "legal right to attempt to enter on the VWP". Check the wording of the OP.

Sorry, I missed the "attempt" (reading too quickly!) However, you still do not have any 'legal right'. As part of the VWP (old I-94W, more recent ESTA), you are actually waiving a lot of your rights by participating in the VWP. It sounds a small detail, but it has massive significance for when you are in the USA on the VWP. All a valid VWP/ ESTA does initially is clear you to travel to the USA. As far as the CBP are concerned, you have no legal rights when compared with a USC, other than to be treated courteously and fairly (and even that is questionable!)

And yes Yuna628, what my friend did is not advisable BUT, it was still technically totally within the law and requirements of the VWP. What I was attempting to show was that there are no guarantees with the CBP and every case is different. My friend might have been dealt with by a more sympathetic officer and got in with no issues. Who knows? However, the hassle and grief they had to endure because of that one decision I would not wish upon anyone. As such,I would always advise anyone to err on the side of caution when travelling to the USA on the VWP, especially with a visa application in process.

Nich-Nick, yes sorry, I meant being barred from using the VWP for 5 years (it's been a long day). Any future trips to the USA before then he would require a visa, and as mentioned earlier, a tourist visa was still denied when he applied for one. In fact, I know three people who were barred from re-entering, though the second case violated his green card conditions (he travelled to the USA whilst his green card was being renewed - bad decision as his green card was revoked and he WAS barred from re-entering for 5 years), and the third case was due to someone overstaying a tourist visa by a week. This was due to my friend's partner becoming sick and my friend staying to look after him. He actually called the embassy before his tourist visa expired to explain the situation, and had a verbal confirmation that he could extend his stay. However, after coming back to the UK and then trying to go back to the USA he was denied entry and barred for two years. They claimed they had no record of the Embassy agreeing to an extension, and also stated they believed that he was not treating the UK as his permanent residence because he had spent 6 months and a few days in the USA in one year, more time in one year than he spent in the UK, therefore that he was counting the USA as his home. Those few days in one year made all the difference to their decision.

One thing worth bearing in mind is that these all involved same sex couples before the striking down of DOMA barely two years ago. Before June 2013, many same sex Anglo/ American couples had virtually no legitimate way of permanently being together in the USA (unless they could get work visas) other than by using the VWP/ tourist visas. Hopping over the border of Canada for a couple of weeks and then coming back might work the first time, but the more you try and do such tricks the greater the risk you will be denied entry. Thankfully since the fall of DOMA, same sex couples no longer have to take such risks to be with their partners in the USA and can go down the K1/ CR1 route to permanent residency.

My point is to try and warn people to be careful and not to take risks. And especially with the query from the person wanting to travel now to see his pregnant fiancée as he is so close to his interview. He's likely to be fine if he did attempt to travel on the VWP now, but, it only takes one bad tempered CBP officer to spoil things for them. My opinion is he is much better off waiting a few more weeks and then using his K1 visa with no likely risks of complications involved.

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

Okay. I agree with every thing about there are no guarantees and sole discretion of CBP. It was only the 2-3 times you seemed to be saying--if you get turned away, you for sure can't come back for 5 years and your visa is screwed. That's how it read. Your particular people may have also been targeted because of prejudice against homosexuals. That could happen to poorly dressed young white kids with blue hair, many piercings and large tattoos. Or any ethnicity.

[E-N 48]

I have not been on this thing in ages how is everyone?!

[BryterMoon 30]

Skipping ahead here, but im a little confused with the ''Depot'' part of the Visa mailing when its been passed. Is there a specified carrier that will hold the visa? something akin to parcelforce etc? Im going to get home delivery, but was just wondering if this is the fastest route.

Thanks

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

Skipping ahead here, but im a little confused with the ''Depot'' part of the Visa mailing when its been passed. Is there a specified carrier that will hold the visa? something akin to parcelforce etc? Im going to get home delivery, but was just wondering if this is the fastest route.

Thanks

DX Secure. Free (no fee) if you pick up at closest depot. List here http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/474161-london-k1-a-complete-guide/?p=6978899

Faster? Debatable. Maybe one day. Maybe not.

[BryterMoon 30]

DX Secure. Free (no fee) if you pick up at closest depot. List here http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/474161-london-k1-a-complete-guide/?p=6978899

Faster? Debatable. Maybe one day. Maybe not.

Thank you, good to have it clarified.

[chrismorrison 96]

We got married at the courthouse the other day. It was a very sterile procedure and the judge did a pretty rushed and botched job. We will file for AOS on Monday if all goes according to plan! xx

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

We got married at the courthouse the other day. It was a very sterile procedure and the judge did a pretty rushed and botched job. We will file for AOS on Monday if all goes according to plan! xx

Congratulations. Rushed or not, it is still legal and counts for AOS. It's kind of epic when you think about you, Kas, married, living in the US....Not even fathomable a few years ago.