Filed for annulment but judge want to grant a divorce

[Sweetfruits 4]

Dear VJ,

If you could remember sometime back i ask a question on behalf of a close friend of mine concerning her bigamous ex husband. I told you guys that my friend discovered a marriage certificate of her husband while the guy was off country on a trip to Africa. This happen after her ex husband was issued his condition 2 year green card and then later the man got his 10 year green card. My friend reported the matter to USCIS and provided them with a copy of the marriage certificate and USCIS adviced her to get a lawyer and file for annulment and they told her she came forward to report the matter to them on time before they guy would be able to file for his permanent residency. USCIS also discovered the man first filed twice with fake names even before he met my friend and were investigating him still now and want to deport him.

Now my friend hired a lawyer and filed for annulment in Michigan and the case has been dragging since Oct-2014 because of the bigamous husband refusal to accept he was married in Africa and instead he responded to the case brought against him in court by saying he does not accept the annulment but instead he would want to go on the divorce rout until today they went to court and the judge told my friend and her lawyer in front of the bigamous husband and his lawyer that the case is proofed bigamy.

Our confusion now is that the judge concludes that the case is bigamy but he stressed that the court cannot grant my friend annulment on the basis that the case was filed in Detroit Michigan but my friend got married in Ohio to this bigamous guy and this shocks my friend and her lawyer so much and her lawyer says he never come across such judgement that because the marriage happens in Ohio it cannot be annul in Detroit. Now the judge adjourn the case to March 02nd 2015 after telling my friend that the court will look into it to see if she could be giving annulment but if not she will have to go to Ohio and file with the court there since the marriage took place there or another option to my friend is that if she cannot go to Ohio then she will be provided with a Divorce instead of Annulment in Detroit. I mean divorce will be granted to someone who filed for annulment in case annulment is not possible in Detroit.

USCIS already showed my friend in there system that they her ex committed fraud and asked her to hire a lawyer and file for annulment which she did but her ex is opting for divorce and because of the stress attached to this case my friend is giving up and said if divorce is the option that the judge comes up with she will just take it and avoid another case in Ohio.

Our questions are

1) Will the man be able to walk free if the case comes in a divorce?

2) USCIS already recorded fraud in their system and assured my friend even with the 10 year green card he will not be able to file for his residents permit base on his bigamy then what if my friend took the divorce instead of the annulment which proofs his bigamy?

3)To our knowledge if her ex got the divorce will he be able to manipulate his way to get his residence permit even though USCIS made us know about his other wife we know of and they too are on his heels on that?

4) She is dating a guy she want to marry after this case, but how long does it take to remarry after either a divorce or annulment?

Kindly advice us please because my friend is so stressed out now and running out of ideas.

[Ontarkie 14,221]

~~Moved to Effects of Major Family Changes on Immigration from K3 P&P~~

[markgina 2]

Im just going to speak what i know ,,,,,,,,, from my divorce from a man who was super horrible to me in 9mos when I studied where I lived which was back west the annualment cost more money to do.................. and I was told you always have to file divorce where you got married..........is what Ive known............... It doesnt seem it would matter what type of divorce as long as you are I would guess free of this man................Im sure hes in deep ...........and going to be barred for his actions............ but ,Im not a lawyer or anything....... just found annulament costs a lot more so I did the divorce... as normal and all states have there certain amout of time it takes depending on what theres is.......

[Villanelle 4,122]

different states have different laws. As strange as it sounds its not that strange to imagine that a marriage taking place in OH would need to be annulled in OH and not MI.

To be honest Detroit is not that far from Ohio. the closest border is about 2hrs. Other points can be as far as 3-4 hrs. Its reasonable to be able to travel there, attend court and return home.

However the courts do allow for people with extenuating circumstances to have attnys appear on their behalf and they themselves not be present in the courtroom. They can be present on the phone (speakerphone) or through a video conference if the court has that technology. She would need to hire an attny that is licensed to practice in OH unless by some chance her attny is licensed in both states and is willing to go to OH and represent her..

questions

1. USCIS generally does not view divorces different from annulments. If your friend goes the divorce route she would want to ensure that the paperwork reflects bigamy in it.

2. this question makes absolutely no sense at all. You say he got his 2yr card and then his 10 yr card. Then you say " they told her she came forward to report the matter to them on time before they guy would be able to file for his permanent residency" Um what? when did they say that? after he got his 10 yr card? your question states " they assured my friend even with the 10 year green card he will not be able to file for his residents permit base on his bigamy then what if my friend took the divorce instead of the annulment which proofs his bigamy?

You realize that the 10yr card is good for 10 years right? It wont come up for renewal for 10 years and even then its a simple form to renew it. What you should be hearing is stuff along the lines of his residence card will be revoked. Or he would not have been able to file for his residency permit- so because it was issued in error they are going to rescind it. Slight difference in wording but makes a huge difference.

Either way- the divorce or annulment is not the nail in the coffin that proves the bigamy. The divorce can have wording and must have wording that includes bigamy. The bigamy proof was the marriage certificate you provided already.

3 The only way he could weasel out of it is to show the other marriage was terminated and no bigamy occurred. In corrupt areas its not unheard of to illegally obtain false documents. USCIS is trained to detect false documents, but if you had the means to get an official to create a legitimate backdated divorce certificate- well what can you do then. Its a false legitimate document.

4 Generally there are no rules about time frames or periods of waiting to remarry in the US. None that Ive heard of in OH or MI. However in some ultra conservative counties in southern states they do implement them in the divorce. Its very rare. You can easily find out by doing a google search of the county you are considering having the divorce or annulment done in and see the rules and procedures. Or call the clerk in the county and simply ask.

[Tina and Johan 206]

having gotten divorced in Michigan, everything I do regarding my marriage there has to be done there. it's annoying. neither me, nor my ex live in Michigan anymore, but we still have to use their court system. Maybe because an annulment legally means the marriage never took place, it has to be reversed where it began? IDK. Each state is quirky. But as someone already said, it's not far from Detroit to Ohio. Good luck!

[NancyNguyen 1,657]

Im just going to speak what i know ,,,,,,,,, from my divorce from a man who was super horrible to me in 9mos when I studied where I lived which was back west the annualment cost more money to do.................. and I was told you always have to file divorce where you got married..........is what Ive known............... It doesnt seem it would matter what type of divorce as long as you are I would guess free of this man................Im sure hes in deep ...........and going to be barred for his actions............ but ,Im not a lawyer or anything....... just found annulament costs a lot more so I did the divorce... as normal and all states have there certain amout of time it takes depending on what theres is.......

Please type normally. Thank you.

[Sweetfruits 4]

Dear Damara,

Thanks for your reply!!! You said my question 2 does not make any sense, yes it does not make sense because i asked the wrong thing. I wanted to say that immigration assured my friend that even with his ex having the 10 years green card, he whould not be able to apply/adjust for his US Citizenship this is the correct question. Shed light on this one please.

different states have different laws. As strange as it sounds its not that strange to imagine that a marriage taking place in OH would need to be annulled in OH and not MI.

To be honest Detroit is not that far from Ohio. the closest border is about 2hrs. Other points can be as far as 3-4 hrs. Its reasonable to be able to travel there, attend court and return home.

However the courts do allow for people with extenuating circumstances to have attnys appear on their behalf and they themselves not be present in the courtroom. They can be present on the phone (speakerphone) or through a video conference if the court has that technology. She would need to hire an attny that is licensed to practice in OH unless by some chance her attny is licensed in both states and is willing to go to OH and represent her..

questions

1. USCIS generally does not view divorces different from annulments. If your friend goes the divorce route she would want to ensure that the paperwork reflects bigamy in it.

2. this question makes absolutely no sense at all. You say he got his 2yr card and then his 10 yr card. Then you say " they told her she came forward to report the matter to them on time before they guy would be able to file for his permanent residency" Um what? when did they say that? after he got his 10 yr card? your question states " they assured my friend even with the 10 year green card he will not be able to file for his residents permit base on his bigamy then what if my friend took the divorce instead of the annulment which proofs his bigamy?

You realize that the 10yr card is good for 10 years right? It wont come up for renewal for 10 years and even then its a simple form to renew it. What you should be hearing is stuff along the lines of his residence card will be revoked. Or he would not have been able to file for his residency permit- so because it was issued in error they are going to rescind it. Slight difference in wording but makes a huge difference.

Either way- the divorce or annulment is not the nail in the coffin that proves the bigamy. The divorce can have wording and must have wording that includes bigamy. The bigamy proof was the marriage certificate you provided already.

3 The only way he could weasel out of it is to show the other marriage was terminated and no bigamy occurred. In corrupt areas its not unheard of to illegally obtain false documents. USCIS is trained to detect false documents, but if you had the means to get an official to create a legitimate backdated divorce certificate- well what can you do then. Its a false legitimate document.

4 Generally there are no rules about time frames or periods of waiting to remarry in the US. None that Ive heard of in OH or MI. However in some ultra conservative counties in southern states they do implement them in the divorce. Its very rare. You can easily find out by doing a google search of the county you are considering having the divorce or annulment done in and see the rules and procedures. Or call the clerk in the county and simply ask.

[Sweetfruits 4]

Yes she a;ready hired a lawyer but it have been dragging for months and now the judge said he cannot grant her annulment because the marriage was conducted in a diffrent state. Another thing is that the judge said is she will need another lawyer to be able to file annulment in ohio and right now the funds are not avialable to file another annulment in ohio. Now my friend want to take the second option avialable which is the divorce even though she already paid $1,500 for the annulment already only for the judge to come up with this judgement after 4 months of a court case. But the judge made it known to her and her lawyer that he will look into the case before the next court date which is 02nd March-2015 to see if it will be possible to grant her an annulment since the ex husband has been found guilty of bigamy but he then said if it is not possible to grant her annulment then she will be granted a divorce if she wants that or the other option is she will have to go to ohio and refile the annulment case there and she will have to pay another lawyer which we can't afford right now. This is why she want to take the divorce incase the judge makes his final decision of not issuing her an annulment.

Now you said if my friend goes for the divorce route she would want to make sure the divorce reflects the bigamy, how possible is this?

Secondly, i asked my question number 2 wrongly yesterday, i should have asked as, USCIS told her the already recorded in their system that her ex committed fraud, and as a matter of fact they made it known to my friend that, her ex filed twice before with other spousse before he even met my friend and one of this he filed with a complete different name and he never told my friend about any of this but USCIS assured my friend that his 10 year green card would surely be revoked and they told her that she did all that is suppose to be done by reporting it earlier before her ex would try to apply for his US citizenship(i mean apply to be a US citizen) and to my knowledge, the US citizenship can be applied only after getting the 10 year green card, correct me if am wrong please. USCIS told her that the guy was having a wife different from the one my friend know of on the marriage certificate.

Our worry on the above is that, how comes USCIS never realized this guy filed twice before with different names and the third time my friend filed for him because to my knowledge that is the reason why the biometrics are conducted on but the guy fodged his way through their system and got what he wanted because on the papers he filed twice before he told USCIS he was married before in Africa and had kids but on the paper work with my friend USCIS realised he withold imformation by saying he never married and no kids. Kindly share your knowledge on this please.

Is it possible he can fordge his way again with the 10year green card in his hand to adjust to US citizenship even though USCIS and the court both have proven his guilt? I am asking this last questions because the annulment by the court should have been the hard prove that he committed bigamy but the court found him guilty of bigamy but want to grant a divorce instead of annulment which will not proof him guilty to anybody because of the divorce which he can use to fool USCIS again because he did it to them 3 times like if there is no use for the biometrics.

different states have different laws. As strange as it sounds its not that strange to imagine that a marriage taking place in OH would need to be annulled in OH and not MI.

To be honest Detroit is not that far from Ohio. the closest border is about 2hrs. Other points can be as far as 3-4 hrs. Its reasonable to be able to travel there, attend court and return home.

However the courts do allow for people with extenuating circumstances to have attnys appear on their behalf and they themselves not be present in the courtroom. They can be present on the phone (speakerphone) or through a video conference if the court has that technology. She would need to hire an attny that is licensed to practice in OH unless by some chance her attny is licensed in both states and is willing to go to OH and represent her..

questions

1. USCIS generally does not view divorces different from annulments. If your friend goes the divorce route she would want to ensure that the paperwork reflects bigamy in it.

2. this question makes absolutely no sense at all. You say he got his 2yr card and then his 10 yr card. Then you say " they told her she came forward to report the matter to them on time before they guy would be able to file for his permanent residency" Um what? when did they say that? after he got his 10 yr card? your question states " they assured my friend even with the 10 year green card he will not be able to file for his residents permit base on his bigamy then what if my friend took the divorce instead of the annulment which proofs his bigamy?

You realize that the 10yr card is good for 10 years right? It wont come up for renewal for 10 years and even then its a simple form to renew it. What you should be hearing is stuff along the lines of his residence card will be revoked. Or he would not have been able to file for his residency permit- so because it was issued in error they are going to rescind it. Slight difference in wording but makes a huge difference.

Either way- the divorce or annulment is not the nail in the coffin that proves the bigamy. The divorce can have wording and must have wording that includes bigamy. The bigamy proof was the marriage certificate you provided already.

3 The only way he could weasel out of it is to show the other marriage was terminated and no bigamy occurred. In corrupt areas its not unheard of to illegally obtain false documents. USCIS is trained to detect false documents, but if you had the means to get an official to create a legitimate backdated divorce certificate- well what can you do then. Its a false legitimate document.

4 Generally there are no rules about time frames or periods of waiting to remarry in the US. None that Ive heard of in OH or MI. However in some ultra conservative counties in southern states they do implement them in the divorce. Its very rare. You can easily find out by doing a google search of the county you are considering having the divorce or annulment done in and see the rules and procedures. Or call the clerk in the county and simply ask.

Yes she a;ready hired a lawyer but it have been dragging for months and now the judge said he cannot grant her annulment because the marriage was conducted in a diffrent state. Another thing is that the judge said is she will need another lawyer to be able to file annulment in ohio and right now the funds are not avialable to file another annulment in ohio. Now my friend want to take the second option avialable which is the divorce even though she already paid $1,500 for the annulment already only for the judge to come up with this judgement after 4 months of a court case. But the judge made it known to her and her lawyer that he will look into the case before the next court date which is 02nd March-2015 to see if it will be possible to grant her an annulment since the ex husband has been found guilty of bigamy but he then said if it is not possible to grant her annulment then she will be granted a divorce if she wants that or the other option is she will have to go to ohio and refile the annulment case there and she will have to pay another lawyer which we can't afford right now. This is why she want to take the divorce incase the judge makes his final decision of not issuing her an annulment.

Now you said if my friend goes for the divorce route she would want to make sure the divorce reflects the bigamy, how possible is this?

Secondly, i asked my question number 2 wrongly yesterday, i should have asked as, USCIS told her the already recorded in their system that her ex committed fraud, and as a matter of fact they made it known to my friend that, her ex filed twice before with other spousse before he even met my friend and one of this he filed with a complete different name and he never told my friend about any of this but USCIS assured my friend that his 10 year green card would surely be revoked and they told her that she did all that is suppose to be done by reporting it earlier before her ex would try to apply for his US citizenship(i mean apply to be a US citizen) and to my knowledge, the US citizenship can be applied only after getting the 10 year green card, correct me if am wrong please. USCIS told her that the guy was having a wife different from the one my friend know of on the marriage certificate.

Our worry on the above is that, how comes USCIS never realized this guy filed twice before with different names and the third time my friend filed for him because to my knowledge that is the reason why the biometrics are conducted on but the guy fodged his way through their system and got what he wanted because on the papers he filed twice before he told USCIS he was married before in Africa and had kids but on the paper work with my friend USCIS realised he withold imformation by saying he never married and no kids. Kindly share your knowledge on this please.

Is it possible he can fordge his way again with the 10year green card in his hand to adjust to US citizenship even though USCIS and the court both have proven his guilt? I am asking this last questions because the annulment by the court should have been the hard prove that he committed bigamy but the court found him guilty of bigamy but want to grant a divorce instead of annulment which will not proof him guilty to anybody because of the divorce which he can use to fool USCIS again because he did it to them 3 times like if there is no use for the biometrics.

[Villanelle 4,122]

Hmm I looked at your other thread and it seems like you have your own case pending. I dont know really like playing 'phone tag' like this where questions get passed back and forth because there are usually details lost somewhere or something is omitted that makes a big difference but its where we are at. You seem to really want to help your friend through this and I can only imagine the heartbreak she is going through.

Since I wasnt on the other thread Im going to hit on some points in that first-

3) My friend requested an appointment with USCIS and took a copy of his marriage certificate of him and his other wife in Africa to USCIS their file was pulled to the office from another state only for USCIS to tell my friend that they themselves have discovered so many lies about her husband because he twice applied for a green card with a different name before he even married my friend. My friend was so shock, confused and full of anger for USCIS themselves questioning how on earth can USCIS approve for his Green card without knowing they guy applied before up until he was issued a 10 year green card. Can some tell us if this is possible because to my knowledge bio-metrics are there for things like this?

Biometrics is basically a criminally based fingerprint scan- not a 'are you in the USCIS system scan. So no, its not for something like that. Your friend has every right to be angry at USCIS for not catching the fact that he applied before under different names. However when you think about it- its not hard to imagine it happening. Every alien is assigned an A number. Tons of people in the world have the exact same name. Some with the same name from the same country. Some perhaps even with the same name from the same country with the same DOB. Statistically its got to happen, but they wont have the same fingerprints or the same birth certificate with the same parents listed. This is why some peoples papers take longer to process then others.

By him altering his name - he either had to submit an alternate birth certificate, or vary his name from what was printed on his birth certificate (sometimes people with first middle and 2 last names fill out the forms in varying ways of how they want their name to be in the US). The computer system wouldve seen new name and DOB and created a new A number from his previous applications. It would take a while for the system to catch up and realize the biometric data is a duplicate and he has 2 A numbers with different names. Someone would then have to manually investigate it. Look through both files and compare the info. See that in one file he listed a spouse and the second file he omitted said spouse.

Hence (current thread)

USCIS told her the already recorded in their system that her ex committed fraud, and as a matter of fact they made it known to my friend that, her ex filed twice before with other spousse before he even met my friend and one of this he filed with a complete different name and he never told my friend about any of this but USCIS assured my friend that his 10 year green card would surely be revoked

Now he is trying to probably submit a fake divorce paper to say he was divorce before marrying my friend.

This could be a problem. If he could come up with a false back dated divorce decree that is authentic or the authorities here can not prove is fraudulent- re USCIS- they will still revoke his current card based on a variety of things like misrepresentation on his forms (using multiple names, omitting information- probably even go so far as to declare the marriage not bonafide.

As I said before USCIS is a strange one- they do not view annulments different then divorces. Not when it comes to removing conditions, filing for citizenship- filling out any forms- you still must disclose the marriage and the ultimate status of it. You must disclose any marriage and the status of it even if it ended in death of the spouse. To my knowledge no other agency has that practice in place. Thats the advantage of an annulment- its erased everywhere (except USCIS). You dont have to fill it out. When you remarry you fill out prior spouse as none.

You say two things about this:

My friend reported the matter to USCIS and provided them with a copy of the marriage certificate and USCIS adviced her to get a lawyer and file for annulment and they told her she came forward to report the matter to them on time before they guy would be able to file for his permanent residency.

USCIS already showed my friend in there system that they her ex committed fraud and asked her to hire a lawyer and file for annulment which she did but her ex is opting for divorce

You corrected part of it to:

I wanted to say that immigration assured my friend that even with his ex having the 10 years green card, he whould not be able to apply/adjust for his US Citizenship this is the correct question.

Because in quote one you say report on time before his residency and he already has his residency- his 10 yr card...

In one quote you say they advised her to file for annulment in the other you say they asked her. I truly believe they simply advised/recommend to her to get the annulment as it would be better for her life in general to have this nastiness erased from it.

I am asking this last questions because the annulment by the court should have been the hard prove that he committed bigamy but the court found him guilty of bigamy but want to grant a divorce instead of annulment which will not proof him guilty to anybody

oh my dear. The USCIS is a strong FEDERAL entity with its own court system. They can make their own determinations based on evidence presented to them and evidence they discover on their own. They do not need and will not be waiting for the annulment/divorce papers to take action. Sure they would like them. But their case does not hinge on it. They have previous docs that he sent in with previous files and your current file, and now the additional certificate. Things he signed and sent in and in the fine print it explained the penalties for submitting/omitting or providing false info.

RE the citizenship issue. If he is still married technically he can apply after having his GC for 3 yrs. They seem to be assuring her his file is flagged and he will not be approved for it. If he gets divorced or the marriage is annulled and he still has his GC- because the wheels of justice move slow at USCIS when they conduct investigations like this he could apply after having the GC for 5yrs. Again they say his file is flagged and he wont be approved- if he even has the nerve to try to apply.

Hopefully the case wont drag out that long and they get him infront of an immigration judge and revoke his status before then.

Going back to presenting a false divorce decree....Its unlikey that authorities in county clerks offices would be able to determine if its authentic. Ohio is a funny state. Believe it or not Im slightly familiar with annulment laws there. To get one based on bigamy you can file at any time but it has an odd wording clause of the former marriage of the spouse was then and still in force. So if he got a backdated divorce decree....? There is also the grounds of fraud. That you have a 2 yr limitation to file with in. I am confident taking copies of the docs you filed with USCIS where there is no mention of previous spouses plus the fact that he swore under oath there that he was never married constitutes fraud. So I would start with bigamy and if he insists its not and presents a divorce decree, then its fraud.

Either way- I dont know if an attny is really necessary? the filing fees are in the range of 2 or 300 dollars. You can also contact legal aid and see if they can help you. A pro of getting the annulment in OH is they can also give you a restraining order with the annulment.

Now you said if my friend goes for the divorce route she would want to make sure the divorce reflects the bigamy, how possible is this?

Honey divorce papers can say anything you want them to. Im guessing youve never been through a divorce? Your side would write up the initial complaint- I want a divorce based on 1 2 3 and 4, Im asking for x y z. The other side responds. We contest 1 2 but admit to 3 and 4. We will not give you x or y but you can have z.

Then for a period of time the lawyers (depending on how amicable things are and how firm you are in what you want in the papers) A final settlement is presented to the judge. Both parties agree they have nothing to split, or mr gets x and Mrs gets y and z. If you cant agree then you leave it to the judge to decide.

Your final divorce papers or 'packet' will contain your initial complaint- the settlement agreement, and the judges ruling. You want him to rule the marriage is being divorced on grounds of bigamy, not irreconcilable difference, or length of separation. If the spouse wont agree to it- let the judge decide. If the spouse presents a divorce decree, have it ruled under grounds of fraud (lying about no previous marriage on application)