National Health Insurance Now, Not Later

[GaryC 7]

I can't afford to turn down a job just because it doesn't have health insurance. Not everyone lives in an areas where there are so many choices. I keep working so at least there's food on the table.

NOW, if I DID choose to turn down work just because there were no health insurance, that WOULD make me a freeloader, wouldn't it?

Your still not getting my point. There were times I didn't have work provided insurance. But I still did without other things so I could buy at least a major medical policy. I drove 20 year old cars. I wore old clothing. We ate hamburger helper and lived off of a garden. (literally). The point is you can do it if your priorities are there.

I owe you an apology. I got a little carried away yesterday when I used the word "freeloader" For that I am sorry. No, you are not a freeloader. But I do think that if you wanted it bad enough then you could find a way to have insurance. Believe me, I was VERY poor for the first 10 years I was married and like I said, I never went without something.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

"Personal Responsibility" is a poor euphemism for what is a very brutal system.

[Cassie 8]

I can't afford to turn down a job just because it doesn't have health insurance. Not everyone lives in an areas where there are so many choices. I keep working so at least there's food on the table.

NOW, if I DID choose to turn down work just because there were no health insurance, that WOULD make me a freeloader, wouldn't it?

Your still not getting my point. There were times I didn't have work provided insurance. But I still did without other things so I could buy at least a major medical policy. I drove 20 year old cars. I wore old clothing. We ate hamburger helper and lived off of a garden. (literally). The point is you can do it if your priorities are there.

I owe you an apology. I got a little carried away yesterday when I used the word "freeloader" For that I am sorry. No, you are not a freeloader. But I do think that if you wanted it bad enough then you could find a way to have insurance. Believe me, I was VERY poor for the first 10 years I was married and like I said, I never went without something.

NVM. I'll let you take care of that one, Rebecca.

[Caladan 19]

Please, enough of this it's all personal responsibility #######. I'm not for universal health coverage because I'm lazy, but because I think the lack of affordable health care is going to ###### over this country seventeen ways from Sunday when all the boomers start using the health care. 95% of medical expenses are incurred in the last six months of life, so look to see some pretty hefty bills.

Good insurance isn't affordable. It's tied to jobs. That might have been okay back in the days of getting your first job at 18 and retiring with the same firm at 55 with a pension. We are now in an economy where most people can expect to have several careers in their lifetime; that means that responsible people will face periods without insurance or underinsured. We are now in an economy that employs more part-time workers, where people work two jobs to make ends meet. You may have made it, gary, and you should be proud, but that economy just doesn't exist any more.

It's about as reasonable as me hoping for a good old 9-5 IBM job where I get to use my slide rule and compass.

Young adults my age have absolutely no incentive to seek out insurance now (again, see 95% of medical expenses), and anything an insurance plan needs is a large risk pool. People "before their third wedding anniversary" are exactly who you need to buy into this system; young, healthy, single people who aren't going to use their healthcare. The easiest way to get them to buy into it is to mandate it.

Many, many bankruptcies are caused by responsible, decent homeowning Americans irresponsibly contracting an illness and the insurance doesn't cover it, won't cover it, or finds a reason not to cover it. And if you really want to have fun, try to find an insurance plan that covers you when you're in your fifties if you have any kind of pre-existing condition.

[GaryC 7]

"Personal Responsibility" is a poor euphemism for what is a very brutal system.

I guess that is what I have been trying to get across to all of you in the various posts the last few days. No one said it is easy. But life gives you what you put in. I would much rather work hard and make it on my own than have someone else to thank for what I have. It's my own moral values. It's the way I was raised. I just don't think it's fair that someone else who has different priorities and drives should think that society owes them something they were not willing to work for. I don't see the government as a solution to anything. I see them as the problem. I have a real problem with the idea that the government can run any aspect of my life better than I can. I don't want to give them that kind of power over me. Welfare is one thing. I don't have to participate other than paying for it. But if the government gets it's hands on my health care then they have a new power over me. Some of my freedoms and choices are gone. I want less government not more.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Please, enough of this it's all personal responsibility #######. I'm not for universal health coverage because I'm lazy, but because I think the lack of affordable health care is going to ###### over this country seventeen ways from Sunday when all the boomers start using the health care. 95% of medical expenses are incurred in the last six months of life, so look to see some pretty hefty bills.

Good insurance isn't affordable. It's tied to jobs. That might have been okay back in the days of getting your first job at 18 and retiring with the same firm at 55 with a pension. We are now in an economy where most people can expect to have several careers in their lifetime; that means that responsible people will face periods without insurance or underinsured. We are now in an economy that employs more part-time workers, where people work two jobs to make ends meet. You may have made it, gary, and you should be proud, but that economy just doesn't exist any more.

It's about as reasonable as me hoping for a good old 9-5 IBM job where I get to use my slide rule and compass.

Young adults my age have absolutely no incentive to seek out insurance now (again, see 95% of medical expenses), and anything an insurance plan needs is a large risk pool. People "before their third wedding anniversary" are exactly who you need to buy into this system; young, healthy, single people who aren't going to use their healthcare. The easiest way to get them to buy into it is to mandate it.

Many, many bankruptcies are caused by responsible, decent homeowning Americans irresponsibly contracting an illness and the insurance doesn't cover it, won't cover it, or finds a reason not to cover it. And if you really want to have fun, try to find an insurance plan that covers you when you're in your fifties if you have any kind of pre-existing condition.

Hit the nail on the head, my friend

[Caladan 19]

Sorry for the rant; my dad designs this stuff for a living (small businessman), so I've been able to discuss this stuff since oh, about kindergarten.

[rebeccajo 14]

I owe you an apology. I got a little carried away yesterday when I used the word "freeloader" For that I am sorry. No, you are not a freeloader. But I do think that if you wanted it bad enough then you could find a way to have insurance. Believe me, I was VERY poor for the first 10 years I was married and like I said, I never went without something.

You don't OWE me an apology. But I do appreciate it and it's accepted.

I drive a 12 year old car. I have a house but it's for sale so that we can buy a smaller one. It's more house than we can afford but I've struggled to keep my son in it till he goes off to college this fall. That's a choice I made as a mother. My son didn't divorce his father - I did. I've kept his life as disrupted as I could given the circumstances.

My son has his health insurance through his father. I pay the co-pays when he goes to the Doc or needs meds. And I pay half of the things the insurance won't pay as per our separation agreement - and believe me his father makes me pay my half despite the fact that he makes nearly $100,000 a year while we struggle by on less than 1/4 of that. I paid for two new pairs of glasses for my son last year because my ex-husband has no vision insurance on him.

Wes has insurance through his work. Yes, we could insure me, but Wes has meds he needs. Five of them. There are copays on those meds. At the moment, I would rather he have his meds than take that co-pay money to pay for insurance on me.

Why do I smear my families personal details here? To make a point.

The point is that we have chosen to forego the medical needs of one member of the family for the medical needs of the majority of the family. A decision that one shouldn't have to make in a country that is as developed as this one.

I understand what you are saying about being responsible for oneself. But I just don't believe that the health of the citizenry should fall into that category. There are many, many people in this country in the very same situation I am in. We work and we carry our share. And we hope we don't get sick.

[GaryC 7]

Please, enough of this it's all personal responsibility #######. I'm not for universal health coverage because I'm lazy, but because I think the lack of affordable health care is going to ###### over this country seventeen ways from Sunday when all the boomers start using the health care. 95% of medical expenses are incurred in the last six months of life, so look to see some pretty hefty bills.

Good insurance isn't affordable. It's tied to jobs. That might have been okay back in the days of getting your first job at 18 and retiring with the same firm at 55 with a pension. We are now in an economy where most people can expect to have several careers in their lifetime; that means that responsible people will face periods without insurance or underinsured. We are now in an economy that employs more part-time workers, where people work two jobs to make ends meet. You may have made it, gary, and you should be proud, but that economy just doesn't exist any more.

It's about as reasonable as me hoping for a good old 9-5 IBM job where I get to use my slide rule and compass.

Young adults my age have absolutely no incentive to seek out insurance now (again, see 95% of medical expenses), and anything an insurance plan needs is a large risk pool. People "before their third wedding anniversary" are exactly who you need to buy into this system; young, healthy, single people who aren't going to use their healthcare. The easiest way to get them to buy into it is to mandate it.

Many, many bankruptcies are caused by responsible, decent homeowning Americans irresponsibly contracting an illness and the insurance doesn't cover it, won't cover it, or finds a reason not to cover it. And if you really want to have fun, try to find an insurance plan that covers you when you're in your fifties if you have any kind of pre-existing condition.

Then how do you explain my story then? I am a boomer. I did it. Why can't others do it? Is my case so special? That economy that let me do it is still there. In fact it's better now than when I got my start in the early 80's. That was real hard times there. We got it easy now.

I am sorry but when I hear this "The easiest way to get them to buy into it is to mandate it." it makes my skin crawl. What about personal freedom? What if I don't want this shoved down my neck? I guess I am to old fashioned for some of you. I was raised on a farm by a father that lived through the depression. He instilled in me a sense of personal responsibility that has enabled me to make it. I don't know any other way. The more "progressive" among us just doesn't make much sense to me. To me it's crystal clear. If you want something then work for it. If you want it bad enough then you will get it. It's not the easiest path but it is IMO the most rewarding.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Iniibig ko si Luz forever

[rebeccajo 14]

Oh - PS - not to mention the fact that I have Immigration on my back who won't even give my husband the friggin' greencard we PAID them to process.

The greencard that gives him the constitutional protections this country we are all talking about are DENIED to my husband until he has that card in his hand. And the affidavit I signed that guarantees them I WON'T apply for him get any state funding to help pay for his medical care.

Now how's THAT for a dichotomy for you?

Edited February 9, 2007 by rebeccajo

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

"Personal Responsibility" is a poor euphemism for what is a very brutal system.

I guess that is what I have been trying to get across to all of you in the various posts the last few days. No one said it is easy. But life gives you what you put in. I would much rather work hard and make it on my own than have someone else to thank for what I have. It's my own moral values. It's the way I was raised. I just don't think it's fair that someone else who has different priorities and drives should think that society owes them something they were not willing to work for. I don't see the government as a solution to anything. I see them as the problem. I have a real problem with the idea that the government can run any aspect of my life better than I can. I don't want to give them that kind of power over me. Welfare is one thing. I don't have to participate other than paying for it. But if the government gets it's hands on my health care then they have a new power over me. Some of my freedoms and choices are gone. I want less government not more.

Gary, you need to stop rhetoricising and actually start looking at the problems this country currently faces with regards to healthcare. "Personal Responsibility", "less government not more" - these are all sloganistic excuses to do nothing.

You've even said as much - that you have some sort of weird expectation that the system will fix itself. How is this possible in an industry that is not geared to consumer choice and takes a daily dump on the people who pay large sums of money for an expectation of a service that they will either not get, or will be short-changed on. I read a Wired article recently that suggested that many companies are actually looking to scale back health insurance provisions for their employees, preferring them to seek it independently.

If you recognise that millions (some 45 million+) of people have no health insurance at all, see if you can justify how this can happen in a country with supposedly the strongest economy in the world - Frankly it is an outrage that someone should have to risk bankruptcy and what amounts to "financial slavery" because they have the misfortune to contract a disease.

[GaryC 7]

Oh - PS - not to mention the fact that I have Immigration on my back who won't even give my husband the friggin' greencard we PAID them to process.

The greencard that gives him the constitutional protections this country we are all talking about are DENIED to my husband until he has that card in his hand.

Well that is another story. The immigration process is totally f##ked and you have my sincere sympathies there.

Well Becca I hope I haven't made you to angry with me. I am very opinionated and I do tend to rub others of apposing views a little raw. Nothing personal from my end. Time for bed.

BTW

I have only 4 days before I leave to be with Luz at the interview. Nothing can bring me down now!!!

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Nothing can bring me down now!!!

What if when you come back, John Edwards is President and an additional 15% of your income is going to universal health care?

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

for those interested, here is a way to get free medical care

link

one of the reasons i'm very mistrusting of a national health care plan is it would negate a benefit i earned after 20 years in the military. will i still have to pay for this national healthcare even though i earned my healthcare thru military service?

[rebeccajo 14]

No Gary you haven't made me angry. And I'm looking forward to reading about your trip and your and Luz's successful interview story. I really am.

I'm 'old fashioned' too - when it comes to matters of my family. I was raised also by families who worked hard and grew up with the Depression around them. The thing is - back then the doctors and hospitals didn't charge what they do now. Sure it wasn't cheap to get sick but you weren't in danger of losing your home or having your wages garnished because you had a medical calamity. Times are changing and this is a crisis in this country. No land as great as you believe this one is should have so many of its people in financial harms way because of a system so out of control. That's my old-fashioned belief.