National Health Insurance Now, Not Later

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Not really nice. If the government already spends as much or more than other countries and everyone still does not have coverage, how much more would they spend to get everyone covered? The cost is just to high! I say never to socialized health care!

Yes, but you are also ignoring the fact that Americans spend more private money on healthcare than anywhere else yet still not everyone gets coverage. The healthcare system in this country is not a shining example of free market economics since there is no incentive for patients or doctors to control costs since most people's expenses are paid by a third party (their insurer). Doctors are generally paid for individual services and so have an incentive to perform too many procedures, and the huge tax subsidies for employer-purchased health insurance encourage expensive care.

You just summed up nicely what is flawed with healthcare in this country right now!

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

No. Going to the ER isn't free for those without insurance. You get a bill. It can be several bills depending on what needed to be done. The reason people without insurance go to the ER is you have an awfully hard time getting an appointment in an office without an insurance card. You get charged a great deal, but you get seen.

Yes, it's not free, but since they must be treated many people go there for what is essentially non-emergency healthcare. The hospitals do send a bill -- they are almost never get paid. So in essence its free (or unpaid) healthcare. The insured pay higher premiums as a result.

[DelcoCouple 1]

The argument that with nationalized medicine you are paying for some 'freeloaders' health care doesn't hold water either. At least not with me.

Last time I looked the people on welfare ALREADY HAVE a medical card and get seen pretty quickly at the ER. In short, their medical costs are ALREADY being paid for with the tax dollars of working people.

But what about the little guy in the middle? The guy working but not for a corporation who insures him?

Yeah - he's a freeloader with no 'right' to health care.

Give me a break.

Shame on you introducing common sense to this thread

[mawilson 2,133]

Shame on you introducing common sense to this thread

It's a shame Ireland doesn't have free healthcare

[DelcoCouple 1]

Shame on you introducing common sense to this thread

It's a shame Ireland doesn't have free healthcare

It may or may not be but is irrelevant to the thread. I do not recall anywhere in this thread a post that suggested it did. I fail to see your point, so forgive me if I dismiss your post as really poor attempt at a strawman. I am not aware of any country that has "free" healthcare. This thread is about how it is paid for. Perhaps you could provide me a link to a country that does have free healthcare.

[Boiler 45,499]

No. Going to the ER isn't free for those without insurance. You get a bill. It can be several bills depending on what needed to be done. The reason people without insurance go to the ER is you have an awfully hard time getting an appointment in an office without an insurance card. You get charged a great deal, but you get seen.

Yes, it's not free, but since they must be treated many people go there for what is essentially non-emergency healthcare. The hospitals do send a bill -- they are almost never get paid. So in essence its free (or unpaid) healthcare. The insured pay higher premiums as a result.

Get a Matricular card and a phony SSN.

Problem solved.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Shame on you introducing common sense to this thread

It's a shame Ireland doesn't have free healthcare

They have a hybrid public/private system I believe ;-)

[GaryC 7]

That's fair enough - but why do you trust a company to do the exact same thing?

Another question. Whose well-being is it in that you have to pay wildly differing amounts of money for prescription drugs?

You keep bringing up the cost of drugs. I pay $10 each no matter what it is. I like the way my health care is. My point is if the government gets it's grubby little fingers in it everyone suffers. I just don't trust the government as far as I could throw them. I don't trust them to make my health decisions for me. I want things to stay just as they are.

Becca,

I am sorry you think I am so heartless. I really am not. I just believe in personal responsibility. I did what was needed to make sure I had health care. I am no one special. I didn't get some lucky break. I worked hard and planned ahead. But the ones that want socialized medicine want to negate all the work and effort I and everyone else that did the right thing have done. You want to get into my pocket to pay for someone else's health care. That just isn't fair. I will never agree with it. Call me heartless if you want. I call it being responsible for your own life.

P.S.

If you look at some of my other posts I made an exception for those with physical and mental problems that prohibit them from working and getting health care. We already have programs in place for those people. It's called Social Security Disability. They are taken care of.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That's fair enough - but why do you trust a company to do the exact same thing?

Another question. Whose well-being is it in that you have to pay wildly differing amounts of money for prescription drugs?

You keep bringing up the cost of drugs. I pay $10 each no matter what it is. I like the way my health care is. My point is if the government gets it's grubby little fingers in it everyone suffers. I just don't trust the government as far as I could throw them. I don't trust them to make my health decisions for me. I want things to stay just as they are.

By that rationale you might expect that people living in other countries with public healthcare have a lower average life expectancy. Lets have a look.

List of countries by life expectancy

Obviously there's more to this than healthcare, but I'm willing to bet it plays a part...

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

erekose,

healthcare plays no part at all in longevity. The reason life expectancies have skyrocketed over the last 50 years in so many parts of the world is because God loves us. Praise God.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

erekose,

healthcare plays no part at all in longevity. The reason life expectancies have skyrocketed over the last 50 years in so many parts of the world is because God loves us. Praise God.

He must sure hate Swaziland...

[GaryC 7]

That's fair enough - but why do you trust a company to do the exact same thing?

Another question. Whose well-being is it in that you have to pay wildly differing amounts of money for prescription drugs?

You keep bringing up the cost of drugs. I pay $10 each no matter what it is. I like the way my health care is. My point is if the government gets it's grubby little fingers in it everyone suffers. I just don't trust the government as far as I could throw them. I don't trust them to make my health decisions for me. I want things to stay just as they are.

By that rationale you might expect that people living in other countries with public healthcare have a lower average life expectancy. Lets have a look.

List of countries by life expectancy

Obviously there's more to this than healthcare, but I'm willing to bet it plays a part...

I'm sorry Erekose, your not getting my point. I am sure Japan or Germany or the UK can successfully administer a nationalized health care system. I don't trust OUR government to do it. Rep or Dem they are all self serving crooks. I want a lot LESS government not a lot more!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That's fair enough - but why do you trust a company to do the exact same thing?

Another question. Whose well-being is it in that you have to pay wildly differing amounts of money for prescription drugs?

You keep bringing up the cost of drugs. I pay $10 each no matter what it is. I like the way my health care is. My point is if the government gets it's grubby little fingers in it everyone suffers. I just don't trust the government as far as I could throw them. I don't trust them to make my health decisions for me. I want things to stay just as they are.

By that rationale you might expect that people living in other countries with public healthcare have a lower average life expectancy. Lets have a look.

List of countries by life expectancy

Obviously there's more to this than healthcare, but I'm willing to bet it plays a part...

I'm sorry Erekose, your not getting my point. I am sure Japan or Germany or the UK can successfully administer a nationalized health care system. I don't trust OUR government to do it. Rep or Dem they are all self serving crooks. I want a lot LESS government not a lot more!

But you don't support reform of the health insurance industry? That ain't going to happen without some sort of government regulation...

Edited February 9, 2007 by erekose

[GaryC 7]

But you don't support reform of the health insurance industry? That ain't going to happen without some sort of government regulation...

I disagree. I am a free market believer. I honestly do think that the market will dictate a change in the insurance companies. As things keep getting more and more expensive then some bright young man or woman will come along with an idea that will work. He/She will be able to offer health care that is better than the way we do it now. Then just to keep their clients the others will have to join along. I know, you don't have that faith in a free market but I do.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

But you don't support reform of the health insurance industry? That ain't going to happen without some sort of government regulation...

I disagree. I am a free market believer. I honestly do think that the market will dictate a change in the insurance companies. As things keep getting more and more expensive then some bright young man or woman will come along with an idea that will work. He/She will be able to offer health care that is better than the way we do it now. Then just to keep their clients the others will have to join along. I know, you don't have that faith in a free market but I do.

As far as the "free market" goes (specifically with regards to healthcare) - the pursuit of profit at the expensive of patient care is a fundamental conflict of interest. My father in law almost had a heart attack as a direct result of an insurance agent interfering with his medical care. But apparently that's not the problem - the real reason our healthcare is so expensive is totally not because of the quality and cost of the service provided, but somehow has something to do with the recipient consumer. Makes sense to me...