Gunman kills doctor, then himself, at VA hospital in El Paso, Texas

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

3 autopsies say he didn't. you keep lying to yourself, if it makes you feel better.

Link please.

[GandD 5,966]

Apparently when Christians go on the rampage, it's not really a big deal. Only when it's the scary Muslim, then folks get scared.

The religion of the attacker is only of note when it is at least part of the motive. I'm not sure why you don't see that.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

The religion of the attacker is only of note when it is at least part of the motive. I'm not sure why you don't see that.

Really? Then take a walk over to the thread I just started about the douche bag who threw his daughter over a bridge and said he leaves his judgement in the hands of God. He mentions God a few times, and yet there's no talk of his religion. I wonder what his denomination is.

"I want to leave it in the hands of God," Jonchuk said.

[GandD 5,966]

Really? Then take a walk over to the thread I just started about the douche bag who threw his daughter over a bridge and said he leaves his judgement in the hands of God. He mentions God a few times, and yet there's no talk of his religion. I wonder what his denomination is.

"I want to leave it in the hands of God," Jonchuk said.

That's fine. But I'm talking about this thread.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

That's fine. But I'm talking about this thread.

In this thread, I really don't know what the nationality or the religious affiliation of the killer is. And TBH, I don't care. He's a murderer. Plain and simple. I don't need to validate my outrage or sympathy towards another human being based on some misguided perception that skin color or religious preference dictates one's action.

I made that comment to because it's just sad a life gets taken and the ONLY way it will be recognized here is if the perp is black or a Muslim. Islam is taking a huge beating right now because some pieces of trash went and killed a bunch of people. Not to mention some of the victims of this massacre were Muslims themselves. So now you have a flow of nothing but Islam/black people are criminals threads every couple of seconds. It's offensive to say the least, but nothing I haven't come to expect from being here. If you play in the mud, you should expect to get dirty.

By the way G, these threads are getting worse. Folks are talking about killing Muslims. It's only a matter of time before the name calling starts and things get out of hand.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Marvin and Su

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Folks are talking about killing Muslims.

I am not seeing that. Must be something I missed.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I am not seeing that. Must be something I missed.

Some of the more vulgar stuff has been removed. As of right now, it's being suggested that Muslims should be profiled and deported, and giving visas to Muslims isn't a good idea. It's also been suggested that all Muslims be massacred more than once.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

I am not seeing that. Must be something I missed.

That's the left quickdraw when islamic Terrorists strike. It never materializes, but it makes for liberal water cooler talk. People don't want to kill good people, unless of course they are whacky Islamic Terrorists who could care less about human life

[GandD 5,966]

In this thread, I really don't know what the nationality or the religious affiliation of the killer is. And TBH, I don't care. He's a murderer. Plain and simple. I don't need to validate my outrage or sympathy towards another human being based on some misguided perception that skin color or religious preference dictates one's action.

I made that comment to because it's just sad a life gets taken and the ONLY way it will be recognized here is if the perp is black or a Muslim. Islam is taking a huge beating right now because some pieces of trash went and killed a bunch of people. Not to mention some of the victims of this massacre were Muslims themselves. So now you have a flow of nothing but Islam/black people are criminals threads every couple of seconds. It's offensive to say the least, but nothing I haven't come to expect from being here. If you play in the mud, you should expect to get dirty.

By the way G, these threads are getting worse. Folks are talking about killing Muslims. It's only a matter of time before the name calling starts and things get out of hand.

People are discussing Islam because the Paris attackers did what they did in the name of Islam. As in, Islam was 100% the motive for these guys. Radicalized Islam is a problem the world needs to deal with. Radicalized Christianity is another problem but the body count is a bit lower so the priority of dealing with it is a bit lower you see. You've got to stop listening to the people that want to lump all Muslims into a terrorist group. You should instead focus on showing why these radicals are not following your belief if you want to make any head way. Show people the difference and why they're not following the Koran.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

People are discussing Islam because the Paris attackers did what they did in the name of Islam. As in, Islam was 100% the motive for these guys. Radicalized Islam is a problem the world needs to deal with. Radicalized Christianity is another problem but the body count is a bit lower so the priority of dealing with it is a bit lower you see. You've got to stop listening to the people that want to lump all Muslims into a terrorist group. You should instead focus on showing why these radicals are not following your belief if you want to make any head way. Show people the difference and why they're not following the Koran.

I've been trying since I stepped foot in this forum. So have a few others. I see why they gave up.

Islam isn't the motivation. It's the excuse they use to commit these horrible crimes. If someone took a literal interpretation of the bible and did the same thing, folks would just call them crazy. Which is the SAME case here. Those monsters aren't in their right minds. Anyone can clearly see that who isn't bigoted.

That's the left quickdraw when islamic Terrorists strike. It never materializes, but it makes for liberal water cooler talk. People don't want to kill good people, unless of course they are whacky Islamic Terrorists who could care less about human life

No, it's the violent remarks you make after something happens.

[GandD 5,966]

I've been trying since I stepped foot in this forum. So have a few others. I see why they gave up.

Islam isn't the motivation. It's the excuse they use to commit these horrible crimes. If someone took a literal interpretation of the bible and did the same thing, folks would just call them crazy. Which is the SAME case here. Those monsters aren't in their right minds. Anyone can clearly see that who isn't bigoted.

So you think their interpretation of Islam has nothing to do with the motive behind these attacks? Its just that the murderers are "crazy" or "evil"?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

So you think their interpretation of Islam has nothing to do with the motive behind these attacks? Its just that the murderers are "crazy" or "evil"?

Reza Aslan said it best. All interpretations of Islam are valid because we don't have a centralized place that calls the shots. The Vatican and the Pope pretty much say what goes as far as the masses go. If there was something like that in Islam, I'd wager there would be a sharp decrease in these folks acting this way. It's the same thing if you had the WBC in charge of how religion ran here in the states. If a crazy person twisted the bible around, you'd have the same results.

I've read the Qur'an and the Bible. What people don't understand is, the books are very similar. What's happening is, in places like Saudi or Iraq, you're seeing how life would be if you went by the book. Look in the OT of the bible, and think about how it would be here in the US if we followed that to the letter.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

People are discussing Islam because the Paris attackers did what they did in the name of Islam. As in, Islam was 100% the motive for these guys. Radicalized Islam is a problem the world needs to deal with. Radicalized Christianity is another problem but the body count is a bit lower so the priority of dealing with it is a bit lower you see. You've got to stop listening to the people that want to lump all Muslims into a terrorist group. You should instead focus on showing why these radicals are not following your belief if you want to make any head way. Show people the difference and why they're not following the Koran.

Just as Christianity is 100% the motive for those that bomb reproductive services clinics and murder those that work in these facilities in this country. Where's the lumping all Christians in with that murderous crowd?

You know good and well that there's a double standard applied here. And those that apply it are not open to learn why they're wrong. They won't even listen.

There was a good op-ed penned by Fareed Zakaria that addresses the very issue of where this avenging blasphemy does and doesn't come from. While one could absolutely "justify" the violent acts against blasphemers with the Bible, one cannot do that with the Koran. Is that going to make a difference in the minds of those that generally see Muslims as terrorists and threats? You know the answer and I do, too.

Blasphemy and the law of fanatics

As they went on their rampage, the men who killed 12 people in Paris this week yelled that they had “avenged the prophet.” They follow in the path of other terrorists who have bombed newspaper offices, stabbed a filmmaker and killed writers and translators, all to mete out what they believe is the proper Koranic punishment for blasphemy. But in fact, the Koran prescribes no punishment for blasphemy. Like so many of the most fanatical and violent aspects of Islamic terrorism today, the idea that Islam requires that insults against the prophet Muhammad be met with violence is a creation of politicians and clerics to serve a political agenda.

One holy book is deeply concerned with blasphemy: the Bible. In the Old Testament, blasphemy and blasphemers are condemned and prescribed harsh punishment. The best-known passage on this is Leviticus 24:16 : “Anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death.”

By contrast, the word blasphemy appears nowhere in the Koran. (Nor, incidentally, does the Koran anywhere forbid creating images of Muhammad, though there are commentaries and traditions — “hadith” — that do, to guard against idol worship.) Islamic scholar Maulana Wahiduddin Khan has pointed out that “there are more than 200 verses in the Koran, which reveal that the contemporaries of the prophets repeatedly perpetrated the same act, which is now called ‘blasphemy or abuse of the Prophet’ . . . but nowhere does the Koran prescribe the punishment of lashes, or death, or any other physical punishment.” On several occasions, Muhammad treated people who ridiculed him and his teachings with understanding and kindness. “In Islam,” Khan says, “blasphemy is a subject of intellectual discussion rather than a subject of physical punishment.”

Somebody forgot to tell the terrorists. But the gruesome and bloody belief the jihadis have adopted is all too common in the Muslim world, even among so-called moderate Muslims — that blasphemy and apostasy are grievous crimes against Islam and should be punished fiercely. Many Muslim-majority countries have laws against blasphemy and apostasy — and in some places, they are enforced.

Pakistan is now the poster child for the anti-blasphemy campaign gone wild. In March, at least 14 people were on death row in that country, and 19 were serving life sentences, according to the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom. The owner of the country’s largest media group has been sentenced to 26 years in prison because one of his channels broadcast a devotional song about Muhammad’s daughter while reenacting a wedding. (Really.) And Pakistan is not alone. Bangladesh, Malaysia, Egypt, Turkey and Sudan have all used blasphemy laws to jail and harass people. In moderate Indonesia, 120 people have been detained for this reason since 2003. Saudi Arabia forbids the practice of any religion other than its own Wahhabi version of Islam.

The Pakistani case is instructive, because its extreme version of anti-blasphemy law is relatively recent and a product of politics. Mohammed Zia ul-Haq, Pakistan’s president during the late 1970s and 1980s, wanted to marginalize the democratic and liberal opposition, and he embraced Islamic fundamentalists, no matter how extreme. He passed a series of laws Islamizing Pakistan, including a law that recommended the death penalty or life imprisonment for insulting Muhammad in any way.

When governments try to curry favor with fanatics, eventually the fanatics take the law into their own hands. In Pakistan, jihadis have killed dozens of people whom they accuse of blasphemy, including a brave politician, Salmaan Taseer, who dared to call the blasphemy law a “black law.”

We should fight the Paris terrorists. But we should also fight the source of the problem. It’s not enough for Muslim leaders to condemn people who kill those they consider as blasphemers if their own governments endorse the idea of punishing blasphemy at the very same time. The U.S. religious freedom commission and the U.N. Human Rights Committee have both declared that blasphemy laws violate universal human rights because they violate freedom of speech and expression. They are correct.

In Muslim-majority countries, no one dares to dial back these laws. In Western countries, no one confronts allies on these issues. But blasphemy is not a purely domestic matter, of concern only to those who worry about countries’ internal affairs. It now sits on the bloody crossroad between radical Islamists and Western societies. It cannot be avoided anymore. Western politicians, Muslim leaders and intellectuals everywhere should point out that blasphemy is something that does not exist in the Koran and should not exist in the modern world.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fareed-zakaria-blasphemy-and-the-law-of-fanatics/2015/01/08/b0c14e38-9770-11e4-aabd-d0b93ff613d5_story.html?wprss=rss_homepage

[GandD 5,966]

The Vatican only holds sway over Catholics. Islamic terrorists are brainwashed with religion. And its quite effective. Is there a place in the Qur'an that stipulates killing is never justified? If so, these guys aren't following Islam. If there's a place that says its ok to kill people that make fun of the profit, then they're following properly.

[GandD 5,966]

Just as Christianity is 100% the motive for those that bomb reproductive services clinics and murder those that work in these facilities in this country. Where's the lumping all Christians in with that murderous crowd?

You know good and well that there's a double standard applied here. And those that apply it are not open to learn why they're wrong. They won't even listen.

There was a good op-ed penned by Fareed Zakaria that addresses the very issue of where this avenging blasphemy does and doesn't come from. While one could absolutely "justify" the violent acts against blasphemers with the Bible, one cannot do that with the Koran. Is that going to make a difference in the minds of those that generally see Muslims as terrorists and threats? You know the answer and I do, too.

Reasonable people never lump large swaths of people together for no real reason. Instead of showing "double standards" the correct argument here is to show why these Islamic terrorists were not following the word of Muhammad or Allah or whatever. Anything else is pointless deflection.