before you come here

[nobbie 105]

They have Butchers in Colorado but I can think of only two, but then very few left in the UK.

I meant where are you moving to in the UK.

I am not moving yet but we have rented a place in Brixham, Devon in June and am hoping the mrs will love it there.

Butchers, I had 2 in the town I lived in the UK before coming here, 6 pubs, veg shop, 2 bakers, chip shop, Friday market, everything I needed within 10 mins walk. Here we gotta drive everywhere and then pay through the nose for it.

At least it's cheaper to drive here I suppose. Maybe not, insurance is very expensive here.

Edited January 5, 2015 by nobbie

[JohnR! 5,495]

I agree with your statement but I'd go beyond the things you mention. In my personal experience, most of the complaints I hear about our country are caused by completely unrealistic expectations, in terms of jobs, income, standard of living, etc.

I have lived in countries where violence, guns and the medical system are not an issue but in my book they are far worse than America at its worst.

Having said that, America is an acquired taste, and not for all palates at that.

before you make the commitment to come here make sure that is what you want to do.

I have been here a year now and cant wait to go back to the UK. The guns, violence, mad medical system run by insurance companies do my head in. many more things, but have a good think first!!! It's not that great.

[CowBoE 429]

No doubt, definitely America has its share of problems with guns, drugs, violence, mad cops (LOL),

and outrageous medical and higher education...

...but the guns, drugs, and violence largely depends on where you live.

I happened to live in a city that's been voted top 10 small cities to live in US,

and it's truly a great place to live.

However, out of control medical and higher education costs are a real problem

everywhere in US.

And the only way to combat this (from my perspective) is to worker smarter/harder,

and make more money...and get school loans and have children repay them

when they graduate with good degrees.

That said, US is not for everyone...and I know number of people (though very few) that have

moved back to their home country.

As for me, despite some of the issues we have in US, I couldn't think of a better

place to live...in terms of job opportunity and overall living quality.

[Boiler 45,993]

I am not moving yet but we have rented a place in Brixham, Devon in June and am hoping the mrs will love it there.

Butchers, I had 2 in the town I lived in the UK before coming here, 6 pubs, veg shop, 2 bakers, chip shop, Friday market, everything I needed within 10 mins walk. Here we gotta drive everywhere and then pay through the nose for it.

At least it's cheaper to drive here I suppose. Maybe not, insurance is very expensive here.

I have been here for sometime now and do go back, seemingly for funerals.

I also remember the first supermarket we went to as a kid. I lived in London and for the life of me can not remember the last time I went to a greengrocer, a friend of mine had a Fish shop but that has sadly long gone.

Even the Chippy we went to as a kid had gone.

There are Farmers markets here but not at this time of year and they do tend to be pricy.

We do have nice brewpubs, but obviously not the same.

[Rosie1563 6]

Just wondering.. Did you not come visit the US and the area you would be living in with your fiance prior to moving here? My fiance has been out to visit me here in California twice for 3 months each time. He is well aware of the area we will be living in and also saw first hand what everyday life would be in terms of what we have locally as opposed to what he has locally within a 10 minute walk from his house in Scotland. On his first visit, things did take some time for him to get used to, but once he saw that the pros outweigh the cons, he knew that he was making the correct decision. He is well aware of the cost of medical insurance and while he does complain because he says things would be free for him on NHS and university would also be free, he understands that the quality of life and the job opportunities here are much better than if he were to stay there. He loves Scotland, and all of his family is there, but he knows he is making the right decision.

[Pheebs1201 269]

Yes Pheebs, what makes me unhappy is the medical system, in that is based on insurance companies who wish to get you treated and out quickly, we just had a friend die due to the stupid system here. No insurance or the wrong insurance? tough ######, you're dead. Give me the NHS anyday. Loads of other things but thats all for now

Yes I agree the US healthcare system pales in comparison to the NHS despite it's flaws.

I am not moving yet but we have rented a place in Brixham, Devon in June and am hoping the mrs will love it there.

Butchers, I had 2 in the town I lived in the UK before coming here, 6 pubs, veg shop, 2 bakers, chip shop, Friday market, everything I needed within 10 mins walk. Here we gotta drive everywhere and then pay through the nose for it.

At least it's cheaper to drive here I suppose. Maybe not, insurance is very expensive here.

Whenever I am here I miss the local chippy too! I feel your pain on that one!

I genuinely recommend relocating to another state-- let me suggest Oregon because this is where I spend half my time and soon will be living! I absolutely love it here, I've never felt unsafe and it's beautiful. Seriously, check it out

[nobbie 105]

Just wondering.. Did you not come visit the US and the area you would be living in with your fiance prior to moving here? My fiance has been out to visit me here in California twice for 3 months each time. He is well aware of the area we will be living in and also saw first hand what everyday life would be in terms of what we have locally as opposed to what he has locally within a 10 minute walk from his house in Scotland. On his first visit, things did take some time for him to get used to, but once he saw that the pros outweigh the cons, he knew that he was making the correct decision. He is well aware of the cost of medical insurance and while he does complain because he says things would be free for him on NHS and university would also be free, he understands that the quality of life and the job opportunities here are much better than if he were to stay there. He loves Scotland, and all of his family is there, but he knows he is making the right decision.

I had been to the US many many times, but visiting is so different to actually living here. i was aware of how much my wife pays for health insurance, but I did not know about co pays, co insurance etc etc or how much car insurance, home insurance etc costs. or property taxes, blimey people moan in the UK about council taxes but it's half the price of property taxes here. apart from petrol pretty much everything here is more expensive.

[Rosie1563 6]

I had been to the US many many times, but visiting is so different to actually living here. i was aware of how much my wife pays for health insurance, but I did not know about co pays, co insurance etc etc or how much car insurance, home insurance etc costs. or property taxes, blimey people moan in the UK about council taxes but it's half the price of property taxes here. apart from petrol pretty much everything here is more expensive.

I have discussed all of this with my fiance lol. He knows how much car insurance is per month as well as health insurance and co-pays and such. He even knows what our out of pocket cost will be when we have our baby in March. One thing I can tell you though.. I am not sure what part of the UK you are from but just from him being here, he realized that the price of almost everything is almost double in Scotland as it is here. I just came back from visiting him for Christmas and I can tell you that I almost had a heart attack when I saw the cost of a turkey for Christmas dinner lol. No way would we be paying 25 gbp for a turkey here. That would be like paying $40 for a turkey here. He knew this too because he was here the previous year for Christmas so he knows the cost of things here. I guess it all depends on the area in which you live.

[nobbie 105]

I have discussed all of this with my fiance lol. He knows how much car insurance is per month as well as health insurance and co-pays and such. He even knows what our out of pocket cost will be when we have our baby in March. One thing I can tell you though.. I am not sure what part of the UK you are from but just from him being here, he realized that the price of almost everything is almost double in Scotland as it is here. I just came back from visiting him for Christmas and I can tell you that I almost had a heart attack when I saw the cost of a turkey for Christmas dinner lol. No way would we be paying 25 gbp for a turkey here. That would be like paying $40 for a turkey here. He knew this too because he was here the previous year for Christmas so he knows the cost of things here. I guess it all depends on the area in which you live.

Must depend as I know when I go back I realise how cheap stuff is in the UK in comparison to here.

[yuna628 9,702]

As a native Marylander... I don't quite know where to start, but I'll do my best okay?

before you make the commitment to come here make sure that is what you want to do.

I have been here a year now and cant wait to go back to the UK. The guns, violence, mad medical system run by insurance companies do my head in. many more things, but have a good think first!!! It's not that great.

Firstly, Baltimore.. and it's close outliers are without doubt one of the most violent places to live in this country. People can skew facts and figures and try and make things 'look' better (the murder rate is in decline, but many are under-reported/fudged and is naturally reduced when people fled the city, including the criminals who have moved out to the counties so it all balances out). Having lived in the inner city, until it became so violent we literally had to give up everything to get out -- the experience of drugs, gangs, guns, violence is what it's all about in the old hood. There are good people there, great people even still. There are nice places to see and do, but one is not particularly extremely safe while doing so. Many people turn a blind eye. They enjoy their pricey brownstones, trendy shops, clubs/bars, coffee shops, the waterfront, and scenery... Towson.. Roland Park.. Fells Point etc... and try not to think about it too hard. I have not lived in the old hood for going on 14 years now? But whenever I go back, I still get the fond sense of nostalgia. It is home and always will be, even with all of the terrible flaws.

You're right, back to the UK if it was up to me. Annapolis, Maryland is advertised as this and that, and if you are loaded it probably is.

Annapolis is one of the most priciest places to live directly near Baltimore. So it's very understandable that the cost of living is higher and you're going to have a big problem doing much if money is an issue. The good thing is, it's typically a desireable place to live with richer trendy couples, so if you want to move out you should be able to sell no problem.

I am already here mate, in Annapolis, MD. Worst move I ever made, it's the state capital, no butcher, no greengrocer, not even a train station. People here seem to love it but why is beyond me.

There are butchers in Maryland. I'm not sure if there are still some in the old city Jewish district and towards Reisterstown (there used to be growing up), but there is absolutely some in the county. Eddies of Roland Park perhaps? I use one myself in fact, that's out in Harford County. Can't comment on the train station, plenty of people are fine using public transport in the city, but most of us never felt safe doing so, that's why we use cars. There should be a metro nearby though. People love Annapolis because they like the smaller town feel and the waterfront. There is crime, but from experience it's no where near the level it is in the inner city... consider oneself very lucky in that regard. Many things will *never* be cheaper in the UK compared to the US -- simply based on the exchange rate and lack of VAT.

I am not moving yet but we have rented a place in Brixham, Devon in June and am hoping the mrs will love it there.

Butchers, I had 2 in the town I lived in the UK before coming here, 6 pubs, veg shop, 2 bakers, chip shop, Friday market, everything I needed within 10 mins walk. Here we gotta drive everywhere and then pay through the nose for it.

At least it's cheaper to drive here I suppose. Maybe not, insurance is very expensive here.

Maryland is one of the highest cost of living, most expensive in taxes states to live on the east coast. You are also not going to find the experience of having everything close at hand or at a walking distance. In the old days, sure. Gas is cheap now. Remember when it was $4 a gallon? Did you have the impression that everything would be the same as it used to be back home? I too love all the things you enjoy about the UK. But here, it will never be the same.

I would encourage you to get out of the city.. get out of AA county in particular, and go elsewhere. It's cheaper in other parts of the state. That's what my family did. Moved out to the countryside and near the border of neighbouring states. It's cheaper here. There is still no ability to walk where you want to go, but it's safer and more economical. I might also encourage you two to look at other states. Delaware isn't bad and places down south aren't bad either. There are also smaller towns in Maryland that may have the small-town charm you seek. You've got options.

I wish you best of luck moving back to the UK, and I assume you know about the restrictions on bringing your s/o back into the country without meeting certain criteria?

Edited January 5, 2015 by yuna628

[lost_at_sea 995]

If the cost of living is getting you down, you should play with some of the comparison tools around on the internet, and compare to other cities and states in the USA: http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/

You can also compare where you are now to somewhere in the UK (I picked Exeter for somewhere in Devon, couldn't see Brixham): http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=United+Kingdom&city1=Baltimore%2C+MD&city2=Exeter

It might help you decide where you'd rather live, either in the UK or the USA.

Edited January 5, 2015 by lost_at_sea

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

There are some places in America that a lot of British people seem to love - where I lived in coastal CT, for one.

You just need to find a good place to live. My husband and I moved to upper Minnesota 6 months ago and love love love it. Most people here don't lock their doors and the Fedex man actually opens my doors to put packages in my house! Everyone leaves their cars running with keys inside when they go into the grocery store, etc. The kids walk to school and play outside by themselves. It is kind of a 1950s throwback. Lots of people here have guns (we do), but there is no gun violence or at least none since we've been here.

My property tax bill for next year for a 1400 sq ft cute house is around $700. Yes, 700. I live in a really rural town, but the next big towns where we go for bigger shopping trips all have butchers and lots of Scandinavian food! Starting wages for people straight out of high school is $12-14/hr. Gas is now around $2/gallon. So yeah, the UK compared to where I live in MN, doesn't even begin to compare.

It is really all about finding your niche and a place that works for you. Just because America works for a lot of British people, doesn't mean it is a good fit for you. If you'd rather go back, do it. I can't judge you, we had a couple of options for living - we tried Denmark, it was no good for me, England, America, or another EU/Scand country. America gave us the cheapest cost of living and best opportunities and more sunshine. Sweet sweet sunshine.

Edited January 6, 2015 by N-o-l-a

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Been back in the states for 7 years now, after 12 years in the UK. It was... bumpy coming home. I had no experience of being an adult in the US, so my (now ex-)husband and I were like two new immigrants together. It sucked! I hated the banality of the suburbs, where I eventually landed, hated the lack of a butcher, a greengrocer, hated driving everywhere. Hated tons of it and regretted jacking my life in London in -- my fantastic job, great defined benefit pension, the NHS and BUPA to top it up, the pub, and on and on and on...

7 years later, I've come to the conclusion that I am never moving back. Ever. My quality of life is much higher here in LA than it was in London, earning nowhere near what I did there. I'm a renter, so no property tax, but also no council tax. Excellent. Getting around by car (mostly) is cheaper than my travelcard. I left the suburbs and moved to the big, bad city where I live in a safe neighbourhood, so I feel more at home. Nobody pukes outside the bars around here. In fact, I never see puke on the streets any more, which was a regular occurrence for me in London. I've seen one drunken brawl in my 5 years in LA, and it was a bunch of sozzled hipsters who ran in separate directions when I yelled out I was calling 911. I live across the street from a butcher and an amazing wine merchant. I can walk to great restaurants, a cinema and a theatre. There's a supermarket a 10 minute walk away. Weather is generally fantastic and we have the most amazing tacos.

On top of it all, I don't get the sense here that we should just be happy with whatever we've got, that we should be grateful for mediocrity, and that we should just "make do" when circumstances suck. I can think of so many times, especially when I was first in the UK, when I was told that I was being a typical American by asking questions about things, about challenging the status quo. I eventually gave up, acclimated and tamped that bit of me down so I could fit in. I think "mustn't grumble" became my motto somewhere along the line. I became very British in my outlook, which in retrospect really is utterly unsurprising given the amount of peer pressure to fit in and not make waves. I still have the impulse in me much of the time, but I'm re-learning how to be a good American and be a jerk assertive once in a while.

What I think I'm trying to say is that this place, this country, probably isn't for everyone. But a year is a short time to come to that conclusion, and a lot of what the OP is complaining about is very much geographic and situational. I don't live in a fancy part of LA, but I've managed to find somewhere that fits what I need and want. We got a big country here, and so many places that could be a better fit. Then again, Devon might be better for you guys. Just a word of advice -- because of the new income requirements for the UK spouse for a spousal visa, you might need to return to the UK and establish a job and a home before your USC spouse can come over. There's a pinned thread on this with much more info. Just somthing to keep in mind.

[Hotter Otter 1,211]

I understand where you are coming from here. I hate the US health system too and am feeling pretty homesick at the moment.

My wife is open to moving back to the UK in a few years so hopefully we will be doing that. I really like New Hampshire and Maine (some of the small towns are really pleasant) so moving there might be an option if my wife and I could work remotely. Have you ever thought of moving there Nobbie?

[Big Papa Zone 93]

It's funny how so many of us see it in so many different ways. From my own perspective, I've been back in England for three weeks - and I can't ###### wait to get back to Uncle Sam. I only came home in the first place to try and save my marriage *FAIL* and now, when I've no reason to stick around anymore, I see the UK for what it is, certainly compared to the U.S - a tired, sick old man "on the bones of its @rse" as my old Mum would say.

Wages here (for an ordinary working guy) are little more than slave labour, and as for having any chance of getting on the property ladder?? Forget it!!!!!!! My Mum's very modest semi in Southampton (not London, not the beautiful West Country, SOUTHAMPTON) is worth 250,000 GBP - it's farcical. Conversely, an ordinary working man Stateside can find affordable areas in which buy a house, which, by UK standards, is a dream home. Perhaps it's different if you're an educated professional, but from an ordinary blue-collar guy's perspective? The US wins out hands down. And just as soon as I've sorted my train-wreck of a life out, I'm headed back out there - and I'm NEVER coming back.