The Official Outrage Over Obama Immigration Reform thread

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The problem is what will come next, nothing has changed from yesterday to today. Except that people south of the border heard amnesty and are packing their bags as we speak.

Luggage will be at a premium. I shall put mine up on e-bay right now.

And you think that people who knowingly broke the law and were sentenced according to the law shouldn't be in prison in the cases where you feel it is inappropriate? No wonder you worship Obama.

No, I think that we lock people up for offenses where lock-up is making matters worse not better. The fact that we have the largest prison population in the world tells the story loud and clear. Knee-jerk reactions by lawmakers is why we are in that fix. And it needs to be changed at some point. There's nothing good or right about locking people up and taking them out of their families' lives for minor, non-violent infractions. We let killers walk the streets but lock people up for getting high. Sick society. Lastly, no matter how much you love to maintain that fantasy of yours, I am not worshiping anyone.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Luggage will be at a premium. I shall put mine up on e-bay right now.

No, I think that we lock people up for offenses where lock-up is making matters worse not better. The fact that we have the largest prison population in the world tells the story loud and clear. Knee-jerk reactions by lawmakers is why we are in that fix. And it needs to be changed at some point. There's nothing good or right about locking people up and taking them out of their families' lives for minor, non-violent infractions. We let killers walk the streets but lock people up for getting high. Sick society. Lastly, no matter how much you love to maintain that fantasy of yours, I am not worshiping anyone.

You break certain rules, there are repercussions. What is so difficult about that concept? It's not like people are doing time for jay walking. Selling drugs is illegal, if you get caught, there are consequences. Drunk driving is illegal, get caught, there are consequences. You enter the country illegally, there should be consequences, not a fruit basket and a free turkey for Thanksgiving.

Come on, there isn't a bigger Obama apologist on this forum.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You break certain rules, there are repercussions. What is so difficult about that concept? It's not like people are doing time for jay walking. Selling drugs is illegal, if you get caught, there are consequences. Drunk driving is illegal, get caught, there are consequences. You enter the country illegally, there should be consequences, not a fruit basket and a free turkey for Thanksgiving.

Come on, there isn't a bigger Obama apologist on this forum.

There's nothing difficult about that concept. What's so hard to get about the point of view that our criminal justice system sucks big time and puts too many people behind bars? The evidence is there for everyone to see. We have the world's largest prison population for a reason and it's certainly nothing to be proud of. It's still allowed to say that something isn't right if one feels it isn't.

And not getting outraged over everything this administration does or doesn't do is not being an apologist. It's maintaining some sanity. There's plenty of criticism to be leveled against the President and I have and will continue to do that where warranted. But when I see the Republicans freak out over Obama doing what two Republican presidents in the not too distant past before him have done, then I can just chuckle. The hypocrisy is just out of this world.

[Karee 4,191]

No, I think that we lock people up for offenses where lock-up is making matters worse not better. The fact that we have the largest prison population in the world tells the story loud and clear.

We also have the lowest crime rate we've had in decades. You can attribute that to all these people being locked up. Or maybe it's because of all the guns. Take your pick.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

We also have the lowest crime rate we've had in decades. You can attribute that to all these people being locked up. Or maybe it's because of all the guns. Take your pick.

Our crime rates are no lower than those in other developed countries where they don't lock up such a large share of their population. Now what?

[Karee 4,191]

Our crime rates are no lower than those in other developed countries where they don't lock up such a large share of their population. Now what?

This is a developed country? The way you talk about it, I'd think you'd consider it somewhere along the lines of Bangladesh.

Again, the crime rates are at their lowest levels in decades. You want to address that point or keep changing gears?

[Sousuke 1,214]

I will correct you because you are wrong. The law wasn't vague, it was clear. And it provided no relief to spouses, parents or children who didn't qualify for relief under the law on their own even if someone in the immediate family did. Congress failed to change the law and include the immediate family members so Bush extended the relief unilaterally to immediate family members of those that qualified for relief under the 1986 law. That executive action covered more than a third of the illegal immigrant population in this country at the time. It was totally on the same order

You will correct me if I'm wrong? Why are you such a jerk?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

This is a developed country? The way you talk about it, I'd think you'd consider it somewhere along the lines of Bangladesh.

Again, the crime rates are at their lowest levels in decades. You want to address that point or keep changing gears?

There are a variety of reasons why the crime rates have been falling. Increased immigration being one of them, by the way. Effective and longer incarceration of major violent offenders certainly is another - no doubt. But as the WSJ article at the bottom of this post points out, it cannot explain it all. Not even the majority of it. Canada has seen a similar decline in crime rates and their incarceration rates have remained constant. If incarceration was the main contributing factor, then it would hard to explain Canada's success absent of increased incarcerations.

LaFree said a combination of factors – from a weak economy and an aging population to increased immigration and a more robust police presence across the country – have contributed to the drop.

“One of the responses of society is to pull together when there’s a huge crisis and a feeling of great difficulty,” LaFree said, adding that the economic climate may have contributed to this peaceful trend.

Additionally, with the current U.S. median age at 37.2 years, older than ever before, the aging population is another possible cause, LaFree said. “There is some truth to the fact that younger people commit more crimes,” he said.

“We also have a record number of immigrants, and contrary to popular belief,” LaFree said, “immigrants have lower crime rates than the rest of society.”

Still, prison can't be the sole reason for the recent crime drop in this country: Canada has seen roughly the same decline in crime, but its imprisonment rate has been relatively flat for at least two decades.

...

Another possible reason for reduced crime is that potential victims may have become better at protecting themselves by equipping their homes with burglar alarms, putting extra locks on their cars and moving into safer buildings or even safer neighborhoods. We have only the faintest idea, however, about how common these trends are or what effects on crime they may have.

Policing has become more disciplined over the last two decades; these days, it tends to be driven by the desire to reduce crime, rather than simply to maximize arrests, and that shift has reduced crime rates.

There may also be a medical reason for the decline in crime. For decades, doctors have known that children with lots of lead in their blood are much more likely to be aggressive, violent and delinquent. In 1974, the Environmental Protection Agency required oil companies to stop putting lead in gasoline. At the same time, lead in paint was banned for any new home (though old buildings still have lead paint, which children can absorb).

Tests have shown that the amount of lead in Americans' blood fell by four-fifths between 1975 and 1991. A 2007 study by the economist Jessica Wolpaw Reyes contended that the reduction in gasoline lead produced more than half of the decline in violent crime during the 1990s in the U.S. and might bring about greater declines in the future. Another economist, Rick Nevin, has made the same argument for other nations.

You will correct me if I'm wrong? Why are you such a jerk?

You opened your statement that I responded to with the words "correct me if I'm wrong". Well, I did because you were. What's the beef?

Edited November 22, 2014 by Mr. Big Dog

[Sousuke 1,214]

There are a variety of reasons why the crime rates have been falling. Increased immigration being one of them, by the way. Effective and longer incarceration of major violent offenders certainly is another - no doubt. But as the WSJ article at the bottom of this post points out, it cannot explain it all. Not even the majority of it. Canada has seen a similar decline in crime rates and their incarceration rates have remained constant. If incarceration was the main contributing factor, then it would hard to explain Canada's success absent of increased incarcerations.

You opened your statement with "correct me if I'm wrong" - I did because you were. What's the beef?

I found it rude is all.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I found it rude is all.

Is that not what you said?

Correct me if I'm wrong but Bush Sr's EO was tied to a congressional law wherein he provided clarification for a vague term within the law related to families. Did Obama link to a specific immigration law or is this a stand alone item?

[GandD 5,966]

~~One post removed for changing the text of a quoted post~~

[Janelle2002 3,865]

Neither side cares about legal immigration. There's no political points to be scored, and that's what its all about. It's flat out silly that it takes a year to get a spouse here. I think it takes roughly 30 days in the EU, and they have an allegedly huge bureaucracy.

It's the sad reality.

ETA: in 2014 it shouldn't take a year to do anything. Leave it up to the govt. to turn a simple thing into something overly complicated.

Of course it shouldn't take a year. Anything to give us hail and the illegals cool water.

Jonathan Fried, the immigration case worker for Senator Cornyn wouldn't even come to the phone and talk to me. He made the secretary tell me he wouldn't help me until after the case has been pending over a year.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Janelle2002

[spookyturtle 9,466]

We also have the lowest crime rate we've had in decades. You can attribute that to all these people being locked up. Or maybe it's because of all the guns. Take your pick.

Our crime rates are no lower than those in other developed countries where they don't lock up such a large share of their population. Now what?

Our crime rate is lower than it has been for a long time. Our murder rate is down. What does that have to do with any other country. Nice deflection.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

You will correct me if I'm wrong? Why are you such a jerk?

I will apologize for MBD, because he never will. All I can say is get used to it, and it's nothing personal against you. Tact and personality are not necessarily his strong points.

Edited November 22, 2014 by DavenRoxy

[Fan_Dancer 171]

Obama can suck my heels alonside his beloved illegals.