I-693 RFE Confusion...

[Mbrennan 15]

Hi all,

On Saturday I received an RFE of my form I-693 and I am looking for some help and advice.

Now it says on the form:

'An initial review of evidence submitted...determined that form I-693 Report of Medical Examination and Vaccination Record, has not been submitted or has been submitted and is not sufficient for the following reason(s):

A completed and signed i-693 was not submitted, or all pages of Form I-693 are not present or of the same revision date.'

Can anyone explain what exactly this could be?

I had my medical in the UK on Monday 7th April, when I applied for my K-1 visa. Through my understanding, this means I was not required to submit the i-693 form, is that correct?

Could they have lost my DS-3025 vaccination record form? Or was this form filled in incorrectly by the London medical practice? I have checked this form vigorously and the only thing I can see as a possible error is in the 'Td or Tdap' section, neither has been checked, but there has been a vaccine given by date entered (I had it during my medical exam in London)

We submitted our application through a lawyer (and if you have read my other outpourings of grief on this subject you will be aware of my feelings of his incompetence) so could the lawyer have forgotten to submit the ds-3025 and this has got us this notice? Are you required to submit the DS-3025 form? I assume so. I have asked him for a copy of our packet several times, to no avail as yet.

I should also point out (which may or may not be normal) that this is not a RFE, it states that I will be required to submit a valid completed and signed form I-693 at a later date. If you receive an interview notice in the mail, you will need to bring it with, if you are not required to attend an interview, you will be issued a RFE.

Any help that can be given is greatly appreciated as I am somewhat lost.

Thanks,

Martin

[Anonymous885 44]

According to the I-485 instruction on 7C, which is not required you to submit entire medical exam. However, you have to submit the DS-3025 and I am not sure you have completed the requirement for the shots that needed.

If you already receive RFE for it, then I would go ahead to get medical exam done with one of civil surgeons.

[MC&C 0]

Some people are lucky to get green card w/o filing I-693 form, yet some are required by the immigration office. Best thing is to ask your attoney about the DS-3025 form to see if he submitted it or not. If not, you may need to see a CS to get the I-693 done.

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

[

I had my medical in the UK on Monday 7th April, when I applied for my K-1 visa. Through my understanding, this means I was not required to submit the i-693 form, is that correct? [/background]

Could they have lost my DS-3025 vaccination record form? Or was this form filled in incorrectly by the London medical practice? I have checked this form vigorously and the only thing I can see as a possible error is in the 'Td or Tdap' section, neither has been checked, but there has been a vaccine given by date entered (I had it during my medical exam in London)

We submitted our application through a lawyer (and if you have read my other outpourings of grief on this subject you will be aware of my feelings of his incompetence) so could the lawyer have forgotten to submit the ds-3025 and this has got us this notice? Are you required to submit the DS-3025 form? I assume so. I have asked him for a copy of our packet several times, to no avail as yet.

I should also point out (which may or may not be normal) that this is not a RFE, it states that I will be required to submit a valid completed and signed form I-693 at a later date. If

Any help that can be given is greatly appreciated as I am somewhat lost.

Thanks,

Martin

The RFE explanation is useless, isn't it?

It is puzzling to me and I have read this entire section of the Policy Manual (and it's predecessor) including every subsection and reference citation. http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume8.html

One thing I can think of--

Do you have a Class A or Class B condition? If so, a new medical exam is required and a full I-693. Class B is any condition that may depart from a normal healthy individual. You may not have been informed by the panel physician if they classified you with a B condition.

The timing seems odd for "initial" review. You sent this two months ago. If the contractor opening the packet mistakenly thought you needed an I-693 (as do most AOS cases but K visas) it seems like you would have been informed in September. If you were being evaluated by an adjudicator already, you would have been informed of interview waiver. Were you?

The original DS-3025 is part of your medical record so a photocopy is not really necessary. It can serve to remind an inexperienced person going through your file that you are are a K visa adjustment and are an exception to the I-693 requirement.

I totally disagree with those who post "some lucky people" get by without an RFE. That sounds like ten people. I have followed/researched this topic for years and hundreds have been approved for AOS without seeing a civil surgeon. I would more likely say "some unlucky people" have gotten an interviewer who didn't know the documented procedure. Or many have thought their vaccination form was all complete when it wasn't. Or some had their entire medical file lost and had no choice but to do it over. But in those cases the RFE generally said every attempt has been made to locate your medical file...blah, blah, blah...please submit another.

But your RFE is vague without a clear reason for it. What would I do?

Submit a statement (with a photocopy of their RFE) saying you believe the initial review to be in error since you are a K1 entry and had a medical exam by a panel physician on [date] in London, United Kingdom, which was less than one year before your application to adjust. (Quote the statements on the FORM I-693 instructions concerning that. ) And submit a photocopy of your DS-3025 saying you believe it to be properly completed and adequate to prove you have met the adjustment of status immunization requirements. I have known some who were successful doing that.

At best, maybe they will correct your file if it is in error, or write back saying they unfortunately lost your medical, or give you a more clear reason.

Then I would wait and see what happens at an interview. Discuss it with the adjudicator face to face. If he says to get a medical, then spend your money at a civil surgeon at that point. They give you their local address to submit it to and your delay is minimal. Or if you don't interview, it says you will get an RFE. Maybe not, or maybe it will be specific.

[Mbrennan 15]

The RFE explanation is useless, isn't it?

It is puzzling to me and I have read this entire section of the Policy Manual (and it's predecessor) including every subsection and reference citation. http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume8.html

One thing I can think of--

Do you have a Class A or Class B condition? If so, a new medical exam is required and a full I-693. Class B is any condition that may depart from a normal healthy individual. You may not have been informed by the panel physician if they classified you with a B condition.

The timing seems odd for "initial" review. You sent this two months ago. If the contractor opening the packet mistakenly thought you needed an I-693 (as do most AOS cases but K visas) it seems like you would have been informed in September. If you were being evaluated by an adjudicator already, you would have been informed of interview waiver. Were you?

The original DS-3025 is part of your medical record so a photocopy is not really necessary. It can serve to remind an inexperienced person going through your file that you are are a K visa adjustment and are an exception to the I-693 requirement.

I totally disagree with those who post "some lucky people" get by without an RFE. That sounds like ten people. I have followed/researched this topic for years and hundreds have been approved for AOS without seeing a civil surgeon. I would more likely say "some unlucky people" have gotten an interviewer who didn't know the documented procedure. Or many have thought their vaccination form was all complete when it wasn't. Or some had their entire medical file lost and had no choice but to do it over. But in those cases the RFE generally said every attempt has been made to locate your medical file...blah, blah, blah...please submit another.

But your RFE is vague without a clear reason for it. What would I do?

Submit a statement (with a photocopy of their RFE) saying you believe the initial review to be in error since you are a K1 entry and had a medical exam by a panel physician on [date] in London, United Kingdom, which was less than one year before your application to adjust. (Quote the statements on the FORM I-693 instructions concerning that. ) And submit a photocopy of your DS-3025 saying you believe it to be properly completed and adequate to prove you have met the adjustment of status immunization requirements. I have known some who were successful doing that.

At best, maybe they will correct your file if it is in error, or write back saying they unfortunately lost your medical, or give you a more clear reason.

Then I would wait and see what happens at an interview. Discuss it with the adjudicator face to face. If he says to get a medical, then spend your money at a civil surgeon at that point. They give you their local address to submit it to and your delay is minimal. Or if you don't interview, it says you will get an RFE. Maybe not, or maybe it will be specific.

Nich-Nick,

First off thank you for the detailed reply.

You have been a great help throughout my visa journey and I thank you again.

Firstly, I really don't believe I have a class B medical condition. I am a perfectly healthy 27 year old, and I could also have sworn that the physician said that everything was good when I had my medical in London. So I don't think that could be it.

Now, we submitted this way back in September, but on the 7th October we received an RFE for our I-485 for initial evidence for our marriage certificate and affidavit of support form...forms the lawyer claimed he submitted (and hence why I ask if him forgetting to submit the DS-3025 form was a possibility for this notice)

So no we have not been informed of any interview waiver or anything yet, I have had my biometrics taken 3/4 weeks ago, and our i-485 case is in the request for evidence review stage currently.

Before I posted I read your very helpful guide to determine if I had a successfully filled in DS-3025 form, and I do believe I have. However, the only thing I can think of is that because the "Td or Tdap box wasn't checked (but a date of vaccine was still included) that may be it?' I can post my vaccine record if it's helpful?

I think I may go down the route of trying to fax the form over to them as you suggested. As you say, it's not a RFE yet, almost like a pre-warning...

It's really confusing, and our lawyer is no help...

Thanks,

Martin

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

Mail anything with a good explanation as I outlined. No fax. Or just wait for a real RFE. Some people feel better taking some kind of immediate action is why I mentioned writing.

I mentioned the Class B because one of my VJ friends got to an AOS interview and they informed her she had a Class B condition and was supposed to have had a follow up etc. (She was diabetic). It was the first she had ever heard of Class B.

In that Policy Manual, which I am not going to search and quote right now,it basically says if you can see the shots were given, yet the doc missed a check mark somewhere, it is okay to accept. (And the reverse, if a doc said complete yet listed no shot dates for ones needed, then return the form for correction.). My paraphrasing.

[Mbrennan 15]

Mail anything with a good explanation as I outlined. No fax. Or just wait for a real RFE. Some people feel better taking some kind of immediate action is why I mentioned writing.

I mentioned the Class B because one of my VJ friends got to an AOS interview and they informed her she had a Class B condition and was supposed to have had a follow up etc. (She was diabetic). It was the first she had ever heard of Class B.

In that Policy Manual, which I am not going to search and quote right now,it basically says if you can see the shots were given, yet the doc missed a check mark somewhere, it is okay to accept. (And the reverse, if a doc said complete yet listed no shot dates for ones needed, then return the form for correction.). My paraphrasing.

Thanks for the advice (again)

Should I mail to the National Benefits Center (which is where our case is being evaluated)

I guess another question that's going through my head is that whilst going through the i-485 filing process, our lawyer also submitted an i-130 application. Could this have any bearing as to why we got the notice regarding the i-693?

We have put in a request to cancel the i-130 naturally, and get our money refunded, and online the i-130 case status has not changed since the very beginning.

Thanks,

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

Thanks for the advice (again)

Should I mail to the National Benefits Center (which is where our case is being evaluated)

I can't see your letter so have no idea what address it may have come from, if it has your name and case number on it or not, so merely a random idea that popped into my head. Don't even know if it would match up with your file.

I guess another question that's going through my head is that whilst going through the i-485 filing process, our lawyer also submitted an i-130 application. Could this have any bearing as to why we got the notice regarding the i-693?

We have put in a request to cancel the i-130 naturally, and get our money refunded, and online the i-130 case status has not changed since the very beginning.

Thanks,

BINGO !! And now we finally dig into the real problem. Meanwhile all these people here on VJ are going to just remember you got all your shots and still got an RFE. There is always more to the story in these I-693 problems.

An I-130 filed concurrently with I-485 is the most common AOS application they get. There are a lot of people already here on student visas, work visas, etc that meet an American and get married. So they can adjust status from their visa to permanent resident. When your application came in, it was just like those. They weren't overseas getting a recent visa medical. Their application always requires a full I-693. No wonder the person checking submissions thought you needed one.

Do you really think they will refund your money? I can't even believe the incompetence of your lawyer. I gotta know...how much $$$$ did he charge you? That's who you should be after for a refund.

[Mbrennan 15]

I can't see your letter so have no idea what address it may have come from, if it has your name and case number on it or not, so merely a random idea that popped into my head. Don't even know if it would match up with your file.

BINGO !! And now we finally dig into the real problem. Meanwhile all these people here on VJ are going to just remember you got all your shots and still got an RFE. There is always more to the story in these I-693 problems.

An I-130 filed concurrently with I-485 is the most common AOS application they get. There are a lot of people already here on student visas, work visas, etc that meet an American and get married. So they can adjust status from their visa to permanent resident. When your application came in, it was just like those. They weren't overseas getting a recent visa medical. Their application always requires a full I-693. No wonder the person checking submissions thought you needed one.

Do you really think they will refund your money? I can't even believe the incompetence of your lawyer. I gotta know...how much $$$$ did he charge you? That's who you should be after for a refund.

Please don't even get me started on our lawyer...

I know what you are thinking, 'why did you even use a lawyer?' Well we started with a great lawyer for our K1 application (before we found VisaJourney) who helped out a lot. Now we had a pretty straightforward case anyway, but it gave us peace of mind.

Once I arrived in the US and we started getting our stuff together for the i-485, we got a phone call that our lawyer had quit, and we were being transferred to this new guy, who assured us that everything is fine, it is straightforward, and that he even did his wife's I-485...none of which reassured me but we were already $1,000 in on the lawyer fees for the i-485 so what were we to do? I never had any confidence.

I could go on and on and it would really shock you the incompetence level.

Will we get the money back for the i-130 from USCIS? Who knows, but if not then we will be getting it back from the lawyer.

Regarding the i-693 case, I do believe that is the core reason for why we got such a vague letter.

I have asked for his help in drafting a letter, but I have also called the office of our local Senator who will look into it for me. They helped me expedite my work/travel because I have a job offer and my mother is sick, while our lawyer told us nothing could be done on the situation...

I don't want to throw accusations around at people, but I do want to get my facts very clear before I go outlining that it was the i-130 filing that caused this! Your reply has helped in the clarification process greatly. It sucks, and I don't really know what to do...do I get the i-693 filled out, do I go see a civil surgeon with my DS-3025 vaccination record? Or do I draft the letter and send it off with all the evidence that a K-1 visa does not need an i-693...

Thanks,

[KayDeeCee 4,893]

I believe you received that letter because of the I-130. Since they changed the policy about the I-693 back in May, they are suggesting that those filing for AOS get their medicals done at a later date and bring them to the interview. That is for people that need to get the initial medical exam from a civil surgeon in the US. The medical will expire in a year, whether you case has been processed yet or not. To keep people from needing to get another medical done if their green card is not approved within a year of the date of their medical, they are allowing it to be submitted later and letting people know it will be required later if they do not submit it with their I-485.

Your lawyer seems to have confused everything for you.

[Mbrennan 15]

I believe you received that letter because of the I-130. Since they changed the policy about the I-693 back in May, they are suggesting that those filing for AOS get their medicals done at a later date and bring them to the interview. That is for people that need to get the initial medical exam from a civil surgeon in the US. The medical will expire in a year, whether you case has been processed yet or not. To keep people from needing to get another medical done if their green card is not approved within a year of the date of their medical, they are allowing it to be submitted later and letting people know it will be required later if they do not submit it with their I-485.

Your lawyer seems to have confused everything for you.

That is becoming more clear that it is because of the i-130, so thank you for that! The rest of your post also makes sense, and seems like the USCIS are logical on that subject, but I should never have got the letter as I entered as a K-1, right?

What a mess right?

Except our lawyer is trying to blame us because we never submitted a I-693 form to him...well no wonder we didn't when we didn't need to!

[KayDeeCee 4,893]

That is correct. Someone adjusting from a K-1 does not need an I-693 if their medical was within a year of filing for AOS and they had all the required vaccinations at the time of the K-1 exam.

The problem you have is that your lawyer had you submit an I-130, and now your AOS is based off the I-130 petition and not the approved I-129F petition. That is why they will want another medical and I-693 from a civil surgeon because it is always needed with a concurrent I-130 and I-485 filing.

[Mbrennan 15]

That is correct. Someone adjusting from a K-1 does not need an I-693 if their medical was within a year of filing for AOS and they had all the required vaccinations at the time of the K-1 exam.

The problem you have is that your lawyer had you submit an I-130, and now your AOS is based off the I-130 petition and not the approved I-129F petition. That is why they will want another medical and I-693 from a civil surgeon because it is always needed with a concurrent I-130 and I-485 filing.

So what's the easiest way to overcome this?

Bite the bullet and get the i-693 done? Or can I show proof that I have the vaccinations etc submitted from my DS-3025 and approved I-129F (Something Nich-Nick suggested)

We are trying to cancel our I-130 and it has been going on for 2 months now...

[KayDeeCee 4,893]

Nich-Nick's advice was good(as usual). Send an explanation with a copy of the letter and your I-129F approval notice and DS-3025. Let them know your lawyer filed the I-130 mistakenly and you are wanting to withdraw that petition. The USC petitioner needs to be the one to include and sign a statement asking the I-130 petition be withdrawn, as they are the one that files that petition. Be sure to include your I-485 case# and A# to help them match up your mailing with your file. You could even include a new I-485 with Part 2, c. checked off. Mail it to the address on your letter, or the address you sent your other RFE response to.

I honestly have no idea if it will work or not, and an IO can always request an I-693 from someone at an interview. For now though, I would try to send in your documents and explanation to attempt to get it sorted out. I personally would not get the new exam and I-693 unless told I had to at the interview.

[Mbrennan 15]

I will do this!

And to think, this is easily the best advice I have had on the subject, yet didn't have shell out $1500 for the privilege...

Thank you very much!

As you say, it may work, it may not but it's worth trying at this stage!