Baker in 'gay marriage' cake row

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Yes, my argument would be that, but I'm also not claiming that it would be allowed under NI law. I am not fluent in NI law. I'm simply stating my opinion that a business owner should have the right to refuse to perform a service based on religious beliefs. In the US I believe they would.

I'm glad someone gets it's NI law!

The question then becomes whether or not it's really desirable to project American concepts of what is and is not, and should and should not be, the law as it relates to anti-discrimination. There are arguments to be made that the law is perhaps overly broad in suppressing genuine expression of religious beliefs, but in NI religious liberty and discrimination is a hot potato that's only recently started to cool down. But the reality is that the bakers have fallen afoul of the regulations as they currently stand. It is perhaps an opportunity to advance this matter through the courts up to the ECHR.

[landr 126]

That isn't relevant. They were denied a service because they were not heterosexual. That is illegal in Northern Ireland -- that gay marriage is not yet legal in Northern Ireland is immaterial. As you probably well know, gay marriage was only recently made legal throughout Great Britain, yet the relevant secondary legislation that was applicable to England and Wales, and Scotland, made such discrimination there illegal as well during the time that same sex marriage was not yet permissible.

To those who think this is unfair, here's my advice: move to Northern Ireland. Agitate for the repeal of the regulations. There you go.

No, they denied the service because they did not want to bake a cake that included a message that they found offensive. That gay marriage is not yet legal in Northern Ireland is very relevant. It provides the backdrop to this story. Why should a business be forced to make a product that promotes an activity that is illegal in their part of their world?

That said, I would have more sympathy for the complainant if he was part of a homosexual couple looking for a cake for their wedding. Instead, it's a gay activist with a political agenda looking to score some PR points. Since he is also a former mayor, I've no doubt that there's a lot more to this story than meets the eye and some behind-the-scenes string-pulling most likely occurred.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No, they denied the service because they did not want to bake a cake that included a message that they found offensive. That gay marriage is not yet legal in Northern Ireland is very relevant. It provides the backdrop to this story. Why should a business be forced to make a product that promotes an activity that is illegal in their part of their world?

That said, I would have more sympathy for the complainant if he was part of a homosexual couple looking for a cake for their wedding. Instead, it's a gay activist with a political agenda looking to score some PR points. Since he is also a former mayor, I've no doubt that there's a lot more to this story than meets the eye and some behind-the-scenes string-pulling most likely occurred.

On the bolded - because a business is a business and the personal views of the proprietor have jack Schitt to do with providing the service.

I agree that there is probably more to the story.

[Operator 1,927]

On the bolded - because a business is a business and the personal views of the proprietor have jack Schitt to do with providing the service.

I agree that there is probably more to the story.

Spoken like someone who has never run a successful business.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Spoken like someone who has never run a successful business.

Spoken like someone who just wants to say something without saying anything.

Bonanza!

[Operator 1,927]

Spoken like someone who just wants to say something without saying anything.

Bonanza!

Sorry Ma'am, I'll elaborate.

I think it is utterly ridiculous to think that the personal views of the business owner have nothing to do with providing the service.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Natrually. You haven't thought it through.

But let's have some more crazy analogies by all means.

[Operator 1,927]

Natrually. You haven't thought it through.

But let's have some more crazy analogies by all means.

You really are fun to watch.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Going out is probably more fun.

[landr 126]

On the bolded - because a business is a business and the personal views of the proprietor have jack Schitt to do with providing the service.

I agree that there is probably more to the story.

I disagree, Hail Ming. Company values and culture, particular those of the senior leadership, are heavily tied into a business' marketing strategy. Therefore, the proprietor's views have a lot to do with how the company provides its services and products. If the senior leadership don't want to produce a product that implies the company's endorsement of gay marriage, they should be able to make that business decision.

That said, I don't believe it was necessarily the wisest decision, given the tidal wave of support for gay marriage. And I don't like how the Equal Opportunities Commission appear to be bullying the bakery into compensating the complainant for "distress" and "inconvenience." The complainant managed to get his cake elsewhere and, on the face of it, it seems like a mountain has been made out of a molehill. At the end of the day, I can't help thinking, it was just a cake. And not for a private wedding, but for a PR event. To me, in this case, it seems that the anti-discrimination laws have not been leveraged to protect the public but to further the cause and agenda of an activist and his political organisation, who most likely see this as free publicity, so who cares, right?

For what it's worth, I don't have a dog in either fight. Though I do think it's a bit silly that gay marriage is not legal in Northern Ireland, but is legal everywhere else in the UK.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Turning the issue into a soap box was a stupid mistake. If they didn't want to make the cake they could have just said they were booked up and no one would have been any the wiser.

But no. They needed to take a stand. Idiots.

[landr 126]

Turning the issue into a soap box was a stupid mistake. If they didn't want to make the cake they could have just said they were booked up and no one would have been any the wiser.

But no. They needed to take a stand. Idiots.

I agree that they could have given a stock answer and therefore weren't being very business savvy.

I do wonder what will happen when gay marriage becomes legal in N.I. The bakery's owners are going to find it even harder to maintain their stance as they'd be cutting off a potentially lucrative segment of the marketplace.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Quite simply they won't be able to run a profitable business.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Hail Ming!