Baker in 'gay marriage' cake row

[Torete 121]

Henceforth I'll discontinue referring to my American tribe member friends as an American Indian...or Chief for that matter. (Said in humor with good friends that understand the intent)

[JohnR! 5,495]

I am not saying it is unacceptable. I'm just saying it is incorrect, in that it is an infamous misnomer.

Ah, yes, the older generation who used the n-word for all blacks and j-word for all Asians. I would not recommend you side with them on this one.

Sorry, I'm unable to cut and paste the first paragraph for source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States

The term "Indian" is acceptable...at least with the "older generation".

[Torete 121]

Even if they refer to themselves as Indian you think its incorrect?

http://www.ncai.org/

Yep, agree with you!

[JohnR! 5,495]

Yes, because it is a misnomer.

Even if they refer to themselves as Indian you think its incorrect?

http://www.ncai.org/

[Torete 121]

I am not saying it is unacceptable. I'm just saying it is incorrect, in that it is an infamous misnomer.

Ah, yes, the older generation who used the n-word for all blacks and j-word for all Asians. I would not recommend you side with them on this one.

I'll disagree with you. I wonder how much knowledge and understanding you have of the older generation of Native Americans...read Indians. I mentioned American Indians not blacks or Asians. I'm unable to speak for the older generations of those races. One has to understand the inner implications of tribe elders siding with the usage of Indian.

Anyway, just my two cents...we're cool. I hope.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Even if they refer to themselves as Indian you think its incorrect?

http://www.ncai.org/

These two Indians own a small computer repair shop in our town.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Teddy B

[JohnR! 5,495]

Absolutely. This is just banter. I didn't mean it as anything else. We're good!! :-)

I'll disagree with you. I wonder how much knowledge and understanding you have of the older generation of Native Americans...read Indians. I mentioned American Indians not blacks or Asians. I'm unable to speak for the older generations of those races. One has to understand the inner implications of tribe elders siding with the usage of Indian.

Anyway, just my two cents...we're cool. I hope.

[Torete 121]

This honkie is out of here...back to work and off lunchtime.

Perhaps the exonym honkie would be comparable to the usage of Indian.

Later room.

[Operator 1,927]

Yes, because it is a misnomer.

Could you please explain? My research is showing me information that conflicts with what you are saying.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Definition of misnomer:

mis·no·mer

misˈnōmər/

noun

noun: misnomer; plural noun: misnomers

1. a wrong or inaccurate name or designation.

   "“king crab” is a misnomer—these creatures are not crustaceans at all"

   synonyms: inaccurate name/label/designation, wrong name/label/designation, inappropriate name/label/designation

   "scientists say “killer whale” is a misnomer for what is one of the gentlest marine creatures known to man"

   • a wrong or inaccurate use of a name or term.

     "to call this “neighborhood policing” would be a misnomer"

Could you please explain? My research is showing me information that conflicts with what you are saying.

[aaydrian 479]

If the bakery don't want to bake a cake or write a particular slogan on a cake because it is against their beliefs just find another Damn bakery who will gladly do what needs to be done.

I'll disagree with you. I wonder how much knowledge and understanding you have of the older generation of Native Americans...read Indians. I mentioned American Indians not blacks or Asians. I'm unable to speak for the older generations of those races. One has to understand the inner implications of tribe elders siding with the usage of Indian.

Anyway, just my two cents...we're cool. I hope.

I think it depends on who you talk to. Some don't have a problem with being called Indians while some detest the label. As John said it's the same with the N word. Some Blacks are cool with it while others would become outraged if addressed as such.

[Operator 1,927]

Definition of misnomer:

mis·no·mer

misˈnōmər/

noun

noun: misnomer; plural noun: misnomers

1. a wrong or inaccurate name or designation.

   "“king crab” is a misnomer—these creatures are not crustaceans at all"

   synonyms: inaccurate name/label/designation, wrong name/label/designation, inappropriate name/label/designation

   "scientists say “killer whale” is a misnomer for what is one of the gentlest marine creatures known to man"

   • a wrong or inaccurate use of a name or term.

     "to call this “neighborhood policing” would be a misnomer"

A response very unlike you, I'm surprised. I know what you meant I just don't think you are correct. I was hoping you could explain to me why you think it's inaccurate.

A·mer·i·can In·di·an

noun

1. 1.

   a member of any of the indigenous peoples of North, Central, and South America, especially those of North America.

adjective

1. 1.

   of or relating to American Indian groups.

[aaydrian 479]

<p>

Definition of misnomer:

mis·no·mer

misˈnōmər/

noun

noun: misnomer; plural noun: misnomers

• a wrong or inaccurate name or designation.

  "king crab is a misnomerthese creatures are not crustaceans at all"

  synonyms: inaccurate name/label/designation, wrong name/label/designation, inappropriate name/label/designation

  "scientists say killer whale is a misnomer for what is one of the gentlest marine creatures known to man"

• a wrong or inaccurate use of a name or term.

  "to call this neighborhood policing would be a misnomer"

Always wondered why Orca whales were called killer whales untill I saw one tear a white shark to shreds on the Discovery channel. Guess it's not really a good example of a misnomer after all.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Got it.

This is what I was referring to.

In the end it doesn't really matter.

https://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/wordroutes/the-biggest-misnomer-of-all-time/

The Biggest Misnomer of All Time?

October 12, 2009

By Ben Zimmer

When Columbus arrived in the New World 517 years ago, this pivotal moment of cultural contact was fraught with misunderstanding. Upon finding the native Lucayans on the small Caribbean island where he made landfall, Columbus dubbed them Indians, under the mistaken impression that he had navigated all the way to the eastern shores of Asia. Explorers and cartographers quickly figured out that Columbus was utterly mistaken, and yet even now his monumental error lives on in the word Indian to refer to indigenous peoples throughout the Americas.

Columbus thought he had made it to India, which at the time was a very broad term in the European imagination, encompassing all of southern and eastern Asia. This vague mental geography in part had to do with the way goods were shipped from the East. The riches of China, Japan, and the islands of southeast Asia were brought first to ports on the southern shore of the Indian subcontinent before being shipped onwards, so Europeans tended to see all of these Asian goods as coming from India (a name that derives from the Indus River). Since the time of Ptolemy, this expansive notion of India was broken down into different divisions, such as "Greater India," "Middle India," and "Lesser India." Thus Europeans would often pluralize India as the Indies.

When Columbus set sail, he carried a passport from his patrons, Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain, stating (in Latin) that he represented them on his voyage ab partes Indie, "toward the regions of India." Columbus thought the distance from the Canary Islands to Japan was about 4,440 km (2,760 miles), when in fact it's about 19,000 km (12,000 miles). On his return to Europe, he was still convinced he had found "India." He wrote a letter to the Spanish royal court stating "in 33 days I passed from the Canary Islands to the Indies" (en 33 días pasé de las islas de Canaria a las Indias). Of the first island that he reached, Columbus wrote, "to the first which I found I gave the name San Salvador ... the Indians call it Guanahaní" (a la primera que yo hallé puse nombre San Salvador ... los Indios la llaman Guanahaní). There's an apocryphal story that Columbus called the natives los Indios as a short form of una gente in Dios "a people in God," but The Straight Dope nicely debunks the myth; he really did think he had met "Indians."

By the time the explorer Amerigo Vespucci wrote of his travels to South America in 1502-4, it had become pretty clear that Columbus had missed "India" by a long shot. The cartographer Martin Waldseemüller published a world map in 1507, a year after Columbus died, showing a new continent based on Vespucci's journals. Waldseemüller called it America, from the Latinized form of Vespucci's first name. Yet even after Columbus's "India" misconception was dispelled, Europeans continued to call the natives of the New World Indians. The Indies lingered too, though in a narrower sense: the Caribbean islands were known as the West Indies, in contrast to the East Indies (which came to refer to the Malay archipelago).

In American usage, there wasn't much of a challenge to the term (American) Indian for indigenous peoples until the '60s and '70s, when Native American became preferred by many. Though Native American corrects the historical error of Columbus, it has its own problems, which I won't delve into here. You can find serious discussions of the nomenclatural controversy online at All Things Cherokee, Infoplease, Nativeweb, and Wikipedia. Suffice it to say, both (American) Indian and Native American will continue to coexist in common usage, as they are now usually seen as interchangeable synonyms.

It's hard to think of another misnomer that had such a huge historical impact. Granted, some of our medical and scientific terms enshrine errors from earlier centuries. One example I discussed here was influenza, originally named because it was believed that the illness was caused by "influence" from the stars. My brother Carl Zimmer recently wrote of another such misnomer in his monthly column on the brain in Discover magazine: non-neuronal cells in the brain are called glia, Latin for "glue," because they were thought of as merely a kind of putty supporting the neurons. "Today we know the name could not be more wrong," Carl writes, since glia are involved in all stages of learning, memory, and other kinds of thought.

Can you think of any other great misnomers of history? There are many stories about words supposedly arising out of miscommunications between European explorers and native peoples: thus, for instance, kangaroo and Yucatan both supposedly mean "I don't know." Most of these are just folk etymologies, however (The Straight Dope comes to the rescue again). One such etymology that actually seems legitimate is the one for indri, the lemur of Madagascar. French naturalist Pierre Sonnerat heard a native point out the animal, saying the Malagasy word iry ("there it is"), and he took that as its name. Or so the story goes.

A response very unlike you, I'm surprised. I know what you meant I just don't think you are correct. I was hoping you could explain to me why you think it's inaccurate.

A·mer·i·can In·di·an

noun

1. 1.

   a member of any of the indigenous peoples of North, Central, and South America, especially those of North America.

adjective

1. 1.

   of or relating to American Indian groups.

[Operator 1,927]

Got it.

This is what I was referring to.

In the end it doesn't really matter.

Clears it up, thanks.

These two Indians own a small computer repair shop in our town.

you sir are a misnomer.