Looking for people to talk to about denials in MENA

[sandinista! 1,816]

Yes we did get married quickly, however, I'm not the first. There are no family or friend issues in our marriage. We have full support on both sides. Yes, sure, we had red flags and many other people get approved with similar or worse red flags. It's quite obvious he didn't overcome the red flags or we wouldn't be in this situation. It's too late to change all that now, so we are moving forward and figuring out what the best course of action is for the future.

You have a close friend who is married to a relative of your husband, and that's how you were introduced, no?

Side by side comparisons of other people's visas and relationships don't work. You seemingly have far fewer red flags than so many others who weren't denied and married on the first visit. But something, somewhere grabbed their attention.

Moving forward requires exploring what that is...you can't counter what you don't know needs to be countered. It's not like you scratch out the denied visa and yell do-over!, and all the prior issues the consulate had are dissolved.

[DarwishAE 19]

You have a close friend who is married to a relative of your husband, and that's how you were introduced, no?

Side by side comparisons of other people's visas and relationships don't work. You seemingly have far fewer red flags than so many others who weren't denied and married on the first visit. But something, somewhere grabbed their attention.

Moving forward requires exploring what that is...you can't counter what you don't know needs to be countered. It's not like you scratch out the denied visa and yell do-over!, and all the prior issues the consulate had are dissolved.

Did I ever say I thought we had fewer red flags than other people? Yes, clearly something caught their eye that I have yet to figure out. Once I do, our efforts will be to overcome whatever that may be. I'm not going to just start over and hope that red flag disappears. This denial will follow us and I'm aware of that.

[Crossed_fingers 128]

People are not denied based on personal opinions or whims of consulars or any such nonsense. Not understanding the process, or having very little actual knowledge of the process seems to often fuel that absurd conclusion, but that doesn't make it true. People's real red flags are often embarrassing though, and personal, and it's a whole lot easier to pin blame on consulars than aspects of one's own personal life, or the lives of friends and family. If anything, throughout MENA, even though a couple consulates are some of the most difficult in the world, overall they seem to err on the side of giving a visa in the most absurd of circumstances, rather than denying them. They're far more generous, forgiving, and understanding than they're given credit for here.

I couldn't agree with this more. You can see the phenomenon so often when a couple with red flags is denied, and somewhere in the recap is their surprise that they would get denied when others with red flags were approved. The consulates are difficult in the sense that the fraud is high and so there are a ton of denials, but I don't at all think they're difficult because the CO's are mean or petty or capricious.

I think one issue is that people tend to focus on the quantity of their evidence rather than the quality. Like, "We submitted 300 pictures, 200 pages of chats, hundreds of emails...but they denied us anyway, the CO must have been having a bad day or just not have liked my husband." But what does the evidence show? Were the 300 photos taken in the course of 1 week's visit? Is there something suspicious in the demeanor or absence of the beneficiary's family members? Is there awkward body language or facial expressions on the couple? Do the 200 pages of chat show meaningful chemistry, or do they reinforce the CO's suspicion that there's a language barrier, that the couple's communications are superficial, that the beneficiary is just feeding the petitioner canned compliments, or whatever? I'm not saying these examples are the situation here, but it's rarely helpful when a couple lists the pounds or inches or pages of evidence they submitted when no one else can see what is revealed on those pages. In addition, even if the evidence is high quality, it may not speak to the specific red flags the CO wants to see addressed. Sometimes minor red flags can be overcome just by showing happy photos and lots of face time, other times it might be more useful to address certain red flags directly with a statement from the couple.

Those are just some general thoughts from what I've seen in MENAland over and over through the years. I suspect here the CO's were caught up with the introduction through friends, age of the petitioner, quick courtship, and language barrier. I do hope you get concrete information about the denial. That seems hard to come by and I think that's terrible....couples have a right to know specifics, IMHO, to have a fair chance to dispute them. But at least as an outsider who has read a few of the OP's prior posts here, that's the direction I would focus on unless told otherwise.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

That could definitely be it too. My goal for Monday is to get USCIS to tell me why it was denied. They got our case yesterday.

They will not tell you that on Monday. They will either reaffirm without a NOID/NOIR and send it back to the embassy with recommendation

to approve OR they will send you a NOID/NOIR letter and you will then be given a certain time frame for a rebuttal of their findings

to overcome what didn't convince the CO.

[Shoot Em Straight 385]

Can you and your husband afford ESL classes? Why not improve his English by now?

With nervousness AND weak English This will go against anyone attempting to fight RED FLAGS at an interview.

[Ihavequestions 419]

The consulates are difficult in the sense that the fraud is high and so there are a ton of denials, but I don't at all think they're difficult because the CO's are mean or petty or capricious.

Exactly. There's no "bad mood" or "didn't like beneficiary" box to check. There has to be a solid reason. These files, as with all government work, is reviewed and audited and real people have to answer for the decisions they make.

The inability to communicate in a common language would be a relationship issue, so I can see how it would be an issue at an interview.

[shahara2013 16]

Sorry for how upsetting this has been for you and your fiance.

[nomadnoor 29]

Thanks for your detail! I appreciate it.

Well we first recieved after the interview what I assume was a 221g although the paper didn't specify. It was asking for us to provide chat logs because the CO didn't believe my husband could speak to me due to his English abilities. So, similar to your friend. So the CO specifically asked for chat logs to prove it since my husband told him we commonly chat on Facebook because I have a crazy work schedule. The letter we got later just said it was being sent back to USCIS for review. No reason as to why which has been extremely frustrating.

My husband really wanted a translator but we practiced a lot before the interview and he did it in English. But the CO told him his English sucked pretty much which did not help my hubby's confidence at all.

I truly believe the CO made a personal decision and ignored the evidence he had. When my husband tried to show him other evidence he refused to look at it. But, the CO had photos from three trips to Egypt and boarding passes to show I was indeed there and receipts from the two times we went to sharm which had both of our info and were signed by the hotel manager. He also had Skype screenshots and cards we gave each other from our birthdays and anniversary. I truly thought going in that this was all enough. When I got the email they were sending it back we was absolutely blindsided. It has been a very rough 6 weeks. Right now we are trying to decide if we should wait and apply again or have me move to Egypt in the next year or so and live there for a year before applying again. We don't have the financial means for me to move for a while, as most people, the plan was to have him here which is what I had been preparing for for over a year. It's amazing how all that can be shattered by a two sentence email.

So long story short you DEFINTELY got 221g.

It should have listed the information the CO wanted you to resubmit to the consulate.

I agree 100 percent with you that the CO made the choice to deny not on the evidence but on their own opinion from the interview.

Your next steps are to either seek a lawyer to try and fight the 221g as it stands now or reapply for the visa.

See this link for some denials FAQs from the State Dept -

http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/general/denials.html

My friend and her husband made the choice to have her move to Morocco for the 1 1/2-2 year reapplication process for the IR1/CR1 visa for her husband and the next time he got his visa approved but it was a tough two years for them both.

Its this friend that told me to give my Peace Corps paper work that proves my language proficiency in Moroccan Arabic for my husbands interview. He was never asked for it although he did do his interview with a translator which the CO dismissed mid way through because the CO felt my husbands English was strong enough to do without a translator except for some specific things.

So a solution for you both would be having you taking Egyptian Arabic or MSA classes possibly at the local International Language House in Egypt - they have two different locations in Cairo - Heliopolis and near Dokki.

You could also invest in Rosetta Stone Arabic - all 3 levels that on sale cost around 220 dollars on Amazon and do that in your spare time and your husband could do Rosetta Stone English-all five levels.

Remember to keep the reciept and see if you can print off progress reports and save those for the next interview.

Start writing regular snail mail letters in addition to chat logs. My family and I are pretty old school that way and I had my husband bring those to the interview as well just in case - they wanted more proof of our relationship in a hard copy form. My grandma loves to send my husband letters for the different American holidays - as she is a retired ESL teacher. Its also a great way to improve your husbands writing in English - by having him reply to the snail mail letters sent to him.

On a more personal note my husband and I decide not to put starting a family on hold because of the visa process and started trying for our first baby once we got to the NVC stage - we were able to expedite my husbands case based on my pregnancy and money situation. At the NVC stage expedite requests are approved and denied by the consulate or embassy you are working through not USCIS. Something for you and your husband to consider.

Ally and Omar