personal opinion please

[Ana88 6]

Hi VJ family,

So I am in the process of visa journey for myself and my son and recently received NOA2.

My sons father has granted permission for my son to leave since almost day one after the initial thoughts settled.

We have had several text and phone conversations about it all. I contacted him last week and he said nothing but yeah OK. Then yesterday when I sent a letter I received from lawyer to organise getting it legally documented as require by embassy for K2.

He agreed once again to sign to give permission BUT he now he is saying he would not sign until I sign a piece of paper from his lawyer (who came out of nowhere may I add) saying that if I die the child would be moved back home to him and that if child is unhappy he moves back home to father. He has no emotional relationship with child only has him a few hours a week, no over nights, he has no legally access or custody of child only legal guardianship ( which only allows him a say in education, religion, place of residence and health care).

I have no issue with the unhappy one, well I do but I told him that if we can word it as " that if child expresses emotional distress, after a 24 month grace period, mother and father will discuss and get child assessed by qualified child psychologist as an independent party, parent with child in there care will get a 4-6months rectify period and if still to no avail discussion on child's living arrangements will be had between mother and father" or something to that affect.

I don't want to put anything regarding me dying as if it is a year then yes I agree but if it is in 6 years time and he has brothers or sisters has lived 12 years with next to no relationship with father I don't want him ripped from it all.

Would these also be a conflict with what the visa is actually for, moving permanently to US.

Would they even be valid once we had moved and became USC's. It would in no way benefit my child considering there huge lack of relationship now.

Please help, all opinions or advice on the matter are welcome. We are hopefully only a week or so from NVC number etc and then I believe Dublin works pretty quick, I'm so scared now about what will become of all this.

Thanks you in advance

Edited October 23, 2014 by Ana88

[Ontarkie 14,221]

You need to find out how the laws of your Country regarding custody are.

In Canada if the parent who has custody dies then the other bio parent gets the kids, even if the parent was remarried. The US will treat the laws of the birth countries court orders like they would another States. Yes the step parent can fight it but that step parent would have to fight it in Canada.

My ex wanted something similar and I explained to him that his rights to the kids wouldn't change we were just moving.

[Ontarkie 14,221]

~~Moved to Europe & Eurasia (except the UK and Russia) , from K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & Procedures- Country specific questions.~~

Hope I put this in the right forum

[jan22 3,053]

S.

You need to find out how the laws of your Country regarding custody are.

In Canada if the parent who has custody dies then the other bio parent gets the kids, even if the parent was remarried. The US will treat the laws of the birth countries court orders like they would another States. Yes the step parent can fight it but that step parent would have to fight it in Canada.

My ex wanted something similar and I explained to him that his rights to the kids wouldn't change we were just moving.

Sorry, but this is not really accurate. For it to be valid in the U.S., it would require a U.S. court to recognize it. While there are laws to ensure that each state will recognize and enforce the orders of another state, that does not apply to international court orders.

So, to have the agreement enforced should anything happen to you, the father would have to approach a U..S. court to have the order recognized and enforced. The U.S. has signed an international treaty (The Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction) that, basically, says that the court of competent jurisdiction to decide child custody are the courts in the country of "habitual residence" of the child -- meaning, the country in which the child has been living. By agreeing to allow his child to immigrate to the U.S., the father is acknowledging that the country of residence will become the U.S. Even if he doesn't believe that, after more than a year, the courts will make that determination anyway. And, the older the child gets, the more likely that the court will involve the child in the decision.

Bottom line, I wouldn't worry about signing something about the return of your child if you die (which, of course, we all hope won't happen for a long time!), since it is not likely to be enforced/enforceable in the U.S. I would, however, try to make it as vague as you can; and, I would also pursue getting a legal document in the U.S., as part of a will or just a document that outlines your wishes for guardianship of your child should anything happens to you, prepared and notarized as soon as possible. (And, of course, review it periodically to make sure it still represents what you want). Just my opinion.

Edited October 23, 2014 by jan22

[Ana88 6]

Sorry, but this is not really accurate. For it to be valid in the U.S., it would require a U.S. court to recognize it. While there are laws to ensure that each state will recognize and enforce the orders of another state, that does not apply to international court orders.

So, to have the agreement enforced should anything happen to you, the father would have to approach a U..S. court to have the order recognized and enforced. The U.S. has signed an international treaty (The Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction) that, basically, says that the court of competent jurisdiction to decide child custody are the courts in the country of "habitual residence" of the child -- meaning, the country in which the child has been living. By agreeing to allow his child to immigrate to the U.S., the father is acknowledging that the country of residence will become the U.S. Even if he doesn't believe that, after more than a year, the courts will make that determination anyway. And, the older the child gets, the more likely that the court will involve the child in the decision.

Bottom line, I wouldn't worry about signing something about the return of your child if you die (which, of course, we all hope won't happen for a long time!), since it is not likely to be enforced/enforceable in the U.S. I would, however, try to make it as vague as you can; and, I would also pursue getting a legal document in the U.S., as part of a will or just a document that outlines your wishes for guardianship of your child should anything happens to you, prepared and notarized as soon as possible. (And, of course, review it periodically to make sure it still represents what you want). Just my opinion.

Omg I just had the biggest sign of relief lol, this was my assumption and what my US fiancé has been basically saying but it is always better to hear something from someone independent from the situation.

I am trying to get a lot of "in the best interest of the child" and "providing he is not of an age to have a legal say/legally decide for himself"

And that if child express unhappiness, then it will be discussed by mother and father and child will be assessed by a independent legally qualified counsellor etc" so hopefully this will stop the "he's unhappy because he was ground BS" that im worried about. Unhappiness is to vague for my liking, I asked him to change it to emotional destress which to him meant change it to "emotional destress and/or any other circumstances" which I had to laugh at... Don't think I'm that stupid haha

I have asked it to be changed to "emotional destress or if a parent has concerns for child's mental and pshyical wellbeing" with a grace period of 24months to let child settle. And if any problems arise to be given a agreed time frame to fix any issues that have arose.

Myself and fiance have also literally just spoke about getting a legal document in the US when I move at least expressing my wishes for my son so at least they can be heard.

[Ana88 6]

~~Moved to Europe & Eurasia (except the UK and Russia) , from K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & Procedures- Country specific questions.~~

Not really country specific i wanted personal opinions of what othes feel about the situation

I also need opinions from americans based on what they know of laws etc like other poster.

Hope I will still get them even if you moved it

Hope I put this in the right forum

Edited October 23, 2014 by Ana88

[Ontarkie 14,221]

Sorry, but this is not really accurate. For it to be valid in the U.S., it would require a U.S. court to recognize it. While there are laws to ensure that each state will recognize and enforce the orders of another state, that does not apply to international court orders.

So, to have the agreement enforced should anything happen to you, the father would have to approach a U..S. court to have the order recognized and enforced. The U.S. has signed an international treaty (The Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction) that, basically, says that the court of competent jurisdiction to decide child custody are the courts in the country of "habitual residence" of the child -- meaning, the country in which the child has been living. By agreeing to allow his child to immigrate to the U.S., the father is acknowledging that the country of residence will become the U.S. Even if he doesn't believe that, after more than a year, the courts will make that determination anyway. And, the older the child gets, the more likely that the court will involve the child in the decision.

Bottom line, I wouldn't worry about signing something about the return of your child if you die (which, of course, we all hope won't happen for a long time!), since it is not likely to be enforced/enforceable in the U.S. I would, however, try to make it as vague as you can; and, I would also pursue getting a legal document in the U.S., as part of a will or just a document that outlines your wishes for guardianship of your child should anything happens to you, prepared and notarized as soon as possible. (And, of course, review it periodically to make sure it still represents what you want). Just my opinion.

Well my personal experience with this is that Canada has jurisdiction of my kids. This was also the experience of my Uncle who had to hop on a plane to pick up his kids in Texas when their mother was killed.

My best friend was also fighting in court 10yrs after she moved to Ohio and it had to be held in Canadian courts.

And that was due to the Hague Convention, it protects the original court order.

I will have to find the info later.

[Ana88 6]

Well my personal experience with this is that Canada has jurisdiction of my kids. This was also the experience of my Uncle who had to hop on a plane to pick up his kids in Texas when their mother was killed.

My best friend was also fighting in court 10yrs after she moved to Ohio and it had to be held in Canadian courts.

And that was due to the Hague Convention, it protects the original court order.

I will have to find the info later.

Myself and child's father have no court orders. He has no legal access, has no legal document regarding maintence. We were not married so I have sole custody and all rights. All he has is legal guardianship which here give him nothing regard pshyical custody of child, all it gives him is a say on education, religion, health care and where he lives outside the jurisdiction (which he is signing off for Him to move to US) Edited October 23, 2014 by Ana88

[Ontarkie 14,221]

Myself and child's father have no court orders. He has no legal access, has no legal document regarding maintence. We were not married so I have sole custody and all rights. All he has is legal guardianship which here give him nothing regard pshyical custody of child, all it gives him is a say on education, religion, health care and where he lives outside the jurisdiction (which he is signing off for Him to move to US)

That is why I moved you to the regional forum laws differ, and why I said you need to know what the laws are there. He still has rights to his child from the sound of what you are saying, so you do need to know your laws.

[Ana88 6]

I know the laws for here regarding all that an I know what rights he has which are no pshyical rights etc. Because he has to take me to court to get them which we never did. I just wanted peoples opinions on what he was asking for, how affective it would be when we moved to US and how that would affect the conditions of a visa which allows us to move and AOS etc.

That's why I didn't post it in Europe because I didn't want it in there for these reasons.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Ana88