Supreme Court allows Texas voter ID law for now

[Teddy B 17,252]

Pretty significant for a 'non-existent' problem.

The following paragraphs are from your linked article:

There are obvious limitations to our research, which one should take account of when interpreting the results. Although the CCES sample is large, the non-citizen portion of the sample is modest, with the attendant uncertainty associated with sampling error. We analyze only 828 self-reported non-citizens. Self-reports of citizen status might also be a source of error, although the appendix of our paper shows that the racial, geographic, and attitudinal characteristics of non-citizens (and non-citizen voters) are consistent with their self-reported status.

We also find that one of the favorite policies advocated by conservatives to prevent voter fraud appears strikingly ineffective. Nearly three quarters of the non-citizens who indicated they were asked to provide photo identification at the polls claimed to have subsequently voted.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/10/24/could-non-citizens-decide-the-november-election/

Not only does the author downplay the results of the survey, but even IF we are to believe this story and it's claims of non-citizens being able to vote,(which I don't), then we must also believe the claims that current acceptable photo id's are useless in preventing the fraud from occurring. Therefore a national id system which proves citizenship, and will be much more expensive than regular photo id's, must be implemented to curb the voter fraud you claim exists.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Teddy B

[Karee 4,190]

The following paragraphs are from your linked article:

Not only does the author downplay the results of the survey, but even IF we are to believe this story and it's claims of non-citizens being able to vote,(which I don't), then we must also believe the claims that current acceptable photo id's are useless in preventing the fraud from occurring. Therefore a national id system which proves citizenship, and will be much more expensive than regular photo id's, must be implemented to curb the voter fraud you claim exists.

Seems like that would be pretty easy to fix. Maybe some better training for the folks working at the polls?

[Teddy B 17,252]

Seems like that would be pretty easy to fix. Maybe some better training for the folks working at the polls?

I doubt it. Fake id's are very easy obtainable. A good amount of teenagers have them and successfully purchase alcohol and get into night clubs with them. If a person who's business is at stake for selling alcohol to minors can be fooled, I think it would be even easier to fool a poll worker who has absolutely nothing at stake if someone uses a fake id. In order to do this right and eliminate any chance of tampering with the id's, they will have to be encoded with a computer chip and swiped into a machine before a person can vote.

[Karee 4,190]

I doubt it. Fake id's are very easy obtainable. A good amount of teenagers have them and successfully purchase alcohol and get into night clubs with them. If a person who's business is at stake for selling alcohol to minors can be fooled, I think it would be even easier to fool a poll worker who has absolutely nothing at stake if someone uses a fake id. In order to do this right and eliminate any chance of tampering with the id's, they will have to be encoded with a computer chip and swiped into a machine before a person can vote.

It's one thing to show up at a polling station without any ID and vote. Pretty simple. It's something entirely different to go out of your way to get a fake ID to vote. Some might say that they already have these fake IDs for other things, and my response would be I'd bet they use them only when necessary. Like to cash checks to get jobs etc. I'd say voting is pretty low on the priority list as far as using a fake ID. As it is now, people are not challenged at all as to their identity when voting. If they were, very few would risk getting caught passing off a fake ID, just to vote.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Karee

[Teddy B 17,252]

It's one thing to show up at a polling station without any ID and vote. Pretty simple. It's something entirely different to go out of your way to get a fake ID to vote. Some might say that they already have these fake IDs for other things, and my response would be I'd bet they use them only when necessary. Like to cash checks to get jobs etc. I'd say voting is pretty low on the priority list as far as using a fake ID. As it is now, people are not challenged at all as to their identity when voting. If they were, very few would risk getting caught passing off a fake ID, just to vote.

The article claims that 3/4 of the non-citizens that voted did show a photo id. Training people is not going to fix that. You need an id that proves citizenship.

We also find that one of the favorite policies advocated by conservatives to prevent voter fraud appears strikingly ineffective. Nearly three quarters of the non-citizens who indicated they were asked to provide photo identification at the polls claimed to have subsequently voted.

http://www.washingto...ember-election/

[Karee 4,190]

The article claims that 3/4 of the non-citizens that voted did show a photo id. Training people is not going to fix that. You need an id that proves citizenship.

Yeah that would be best. But you have to start somewhere. As it is now, some people don't want anyone having to show ID to vote. Glad to see you and I are on the same page.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Yeah that would be best. But you have to start somewhere. As it is now, some people don't want anyone having to show ID to vote. Glad to see you and I are on the same page.

I'm not steadfast against voter id, but I'm not really for it either. It's a non-issue to me because I don't believe that voter fraud is a problem in the US. What I am in favor of is a national id system that proves citizenship. This can be used for many things including voting and reducing the employment of illegal aliens, which I believe is a much bigger problem than voter fraud.

[Karee 4,190]

I'm not steadfast against voter id, but I'm not really for it either. It's a non-issue to me because I don't believe that voter fraud is a problem in the US. What I am in favor of is a national id system that proves citizenship. This can be used for many things including voting and reducing the employment of illegal aliens, which I believe is a much bigger problem than voter fraud.

I don't think voter fraud is that big of a deal either. However, it seems like there's no way to gauge if it's a major issue or not as it stands now.

I'm also for a national ID system. As I stated before, it seems the groundwork is already there with social security numbers. It'll probably be a pain initially to get it going, but once it's up and running it wont seem like a big deal to most. I'm sure some will see it as the government interfering in their lives and will want to move in to their bunkers etc. I'm pretty sure the federal govt. already has all the access they want, to state run driver's license databases etc.

[UncleBeer 244]

I don't believe that voter fraud is a problem in the US.

It's certainly not for Democrats. Speaks volumes.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Nailed it.

:thumbs:

The following paragraphs are from your linked article:

Not only does the author downplay the results of the survey, but even IF we are to believe this story and it's claims of non-citizens being able to vote,(which I don't), then we must also believe the claims that current acceptable photo id's are useless in preventing the fraud from occurring. Therefore a national id system which proves citizenship, and will be much more expensive than regular photo id's, must be implemented to curb the voter fraud you claim exists.

[Teddy B 17,252]

I don't think voter fraud is that big of a deal either. However, it seems like there's no way to gauge if it's a major issue or not as it stands now.

I'm also for a national ID system. As I stated before, it seems the groundwork is already there with social security numbers. It'll probably be a pain initially to get it going, but once it's up and running it wont seem like a big deal to most. I'm sure some will see it as the government interfering in their lives and will want to move in to their bunkers etc. I'm pretty sure the federal govt. already has all the access they want, to state run driver's license databases etc.

The thing with social security cards is that they can be easily falsified. There are already a lot of non-citizens out there with social security cards that were obtained illegally. I have a friend who is the head chef for a restaurant chain in Boston, he tells me stories of how the illegals show up with falsified documents to get jobs at his restaurants. He says that half the time they show up with documents that don't match. He turns them away and they come back the next day with the proper documents that do match. There is a very big market for falsified documents and they are easily obtainable and not very expensive.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Not to mention all the LPRs, who obtained their SS# legally but are non citizens.

In addition, there are only a handful of states with such measures, so creating a national id for their sake would not be the solution.

If these states are serious about fraud, they should demand that every voter obtain a passport and they should fund this effort. That they haven't presented a solution to the problem they purport to exist, only indicates that their governors are trying to shift the focus from the real issues.

The thing with social security cards is that they can be easily falsified. There are already a lot of non-citizens out there with social security cards that were obtained illegally. I have a friend who is the head chef for a restaurant chain in Boston, he tells me stories of how the illegals show up with falsified documents to get jobs at his restaurants. He says that half the time they show up with documents that don't match. He turns them away and they come back the next day with the proper documents that do match. There is a very big market for falsified documents and they are easily obtainable and not very expensive.

[UncleBeer 244]

The thing with social security cards is that they can be easily falsified.

They were never meant to be used as identification; says so right on the back! That the gubmint then insists on their use for identifications purposes is the height of absurdity.

[Karee 4,190]

The thing with social security cards is that they can be easily falsified. There are already a lot of non-citizens out there with social security cards that were obtained illegally. I have a friend who is the head chef for a restaurant chain in Boston, he tells me stories of how the illegals show up with falsified documents to get jobs at his restaurants. He says that half the time they show up with documents that don't match. He turns them away and they come back the next day with the proper documents that do match. There is a very big market for falsified documents and they are easily obtainable and not very expensive.

Yeah that's because SS cards are a flimsy piece of paper with no photo on them. If the govt. made them secure (like green cards) then they wouldn't be so easily forged.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Karee

[JohnR! 5,495]

Non US citizens who live here legally, even temporarily, as is the case of students, are issued valid SS#. SSCs can't be used as proof of citizenship.

Yeah that's because SS cards are a flimsy piece of paper with no photo on them. Is the govt. made them secure (like green cards) then they wouldn't be so easily forged.