Supreme Court allows Texas voter ID law for now

[Karee 4,190]

Or they don't like wasting money on problems that don't exist.

What money? How much can it possibly cost to ask someone for an ID and compare it to the registry when they walk in to vote. Regardless, the people of Texas via their elected representatives think it's worthwhile, and that's really all that matters.

[GBCW 397]

I'm going to turn off all of our httpd logging and use the lack of evidence in logs as evidence that we are not under attack by hackers. Then the next time someone wants to spend money on a new IPS system, I'll be like WHY? There's no evidence of a problem, you alarmist #######!

Wow, the 4 letter synonym for bowel starting with t and ending with d is censored as well.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Alternatively, you should request that all connections declare their IP addresses at the handshake. We all know that a hacker would never be able to use a fake proxy...

In any case, you present an interesting red herring, but a red herring no less....

I'm going to turn off all of our httpd logging and use the lack of evidence in logs as evidence that we are not under attack by hackers. Then the next time someone wants to spend money on a new IPS system, I'll be like WHY? There's no evidence of a problem, you alarmist #######!

Wow, the 4 letter synonym for bowel starting with t and ending with d is censored as well.

[Teddy B 17,252]

What money? How much can it possibly cost to ask someone for an ID and compare it to the registry when they walk in to vote. Regardless, the people of Texas via their elected representatives think it's worthwhile, and that's really all that matters.

You were given a link earlier in this thread by Hail Ming that showed the cost of a similar id program that's been proposed in the UK. You chose not to accept it as any basis to go on. You could probably find more info via google if you're really interested.

I'm going to turn off all of our httpd logging and use the lack of evidence in logs as evidence that we are not under attack by hackers. Then the next time someone wants to spend money on a new IPS system, I'll be like WHY? There's no evidence of a problem, you alarmist #######!

Wow, the 4 letter synonym for bowel starting with t and ending with d is censored as well.

That would just be dumb.

[Rob L 3,811]

What money? How much can it possibly cost to ask someone for an ID and compare it to the registry when they walk in to vote. Regardless, the people of Texas via their elected representatives think it's worthwhile, and that's really all that matters.

Its not only their business if they impact a Federal election.

8 Million voters X 1 minute = 133,000 clerk hours assume 10 an hour then each election cycle would be 1.3 million

The cost of the Voter ID Card program including enrollment

Any costs pushed to the counties to sort out provisional ballots

Training

Public Relations

Defending the lawsuit

...Not sure about the total cost..but its not nothing to the government. To the folks that need to go out and prove they are eligible to vote? No idea.

[Karee 4,190]

You were given a link earlier in this thread by Hail Ming that showed the cost of a similar id program that's been proposed in the UK. You chose not to accept it as any basis to go on. You could probably find more info via google if you're really interested.

As I pointed out to Duncan at the time, links to voter id laws in other countries are irrelevant. If he had posted a link referencing a voter ID in the U.S. and it's cost, I'd take a look at it. Elections in the U.S. are not the same as elections in the UK.

[Karee 4,190]

Its not only their business if they impact a Federal election.

8 Million voters X 1 minute = 133,000 clerk hours assume 10 an hour then each election cycle would be 1.3 million

The cost of the Voter ID Card program including enrollment

Any costs pushed to the counties to sort out provisional ballots

Training

Public Relations

Defending the lawsuit

...Not sure about the total cost..but its not nothing to the government. To the folks that need to go out and prove they are eligible to vote? No idea.

Those clerks are already there at the polling stations. You're making an (incorrect) assumption that they would need to hire more clerks to simply take a look at someones ID. They already look at the voter registration card and compare it to their list. I don't really see how giving the clerk your ID along with your voter registration card is going to add an expense. Your argument seems somewhat desperate really.

I'm going to turn off all of our httpd logging and use the lack of evidence in logs as evidence that we are not under attack by hackers. Then the next time someone wants to spend money on a new IPS system, I'll be like WHY? There's no evidence of a problem, you alarmist #######!

Wow, the 4 letter synonym for bowel starting with t and ending with d is censored as well.

Yeah since it's not a problem now, why worry about it in the future.

[Teddy B 17,252]

As I pointed out to Duncan at the time, links to voter id laws in other countries are irrelevant. If he had posted a link referencing a voter ID in the U.S. and it's cost, I'd take a look at it. Elections in the U.S. are not the same as elections in the UK.

Only because I like you Karee. This is the first article that popped up on a search.

The costs of voter ID

“Those who oppose photo voter ID often say that voter ID is a solution in search of a problem. This is true, but it would more accurate to say that photo voter ID is an expensive solution in search of a virtually non-existent problem,” says Michael Slater, executive director of Project Vote.

Take Pennsylvania as an example. According to news reports, there have been no instances of voter fraud in the state, but estimates show that the cost of the state’s free ID and related voter-education program to be between $5 – $11 million.

Texas and New Mexico have similar stories. According to My San Antonio, the 20 allegations of election law violations in the 2008 and 2010 elections mostly involved mail-in ballot or campaign finance violations, electioneering too close to a polling place, or a voter blocked by an election worker. There were only five illegal voting complaints, and only one remains pending, according to agency records. In fact, according to Sen. Rodney Ellis (D-Houston), “There are more UFO and Bigfoot sightings than documented cases of voter impersonation.” Yet, the cost of implementing photo voter ID in Texas could be $2 – $10 million.

In New Mexico, an analysis shows that the voter photo ID would likely cost taxpayers more than $1.8 million per year, or $5.5 million over the next three years.

Wisconsin’s voter ID bill, according to the Legislative Fiscal Bureau, would cost more than $5.7 million to implement. South Carolina’s photo voter ID bill proponents say the program will cost $1.3 million in the first year, with ongoing costs of $260,000 per year.

http://www.projectvote.org/blog/2012/04/the-real-cost-of-voter-id/

Here's more.

The Pennsylvania House of Representatives is considering legislation that would require every citizen to present photo identification as a condition for voting in primary and general elections. House Bill (HB) 934 (Metcalfe) requires each voter to provide a form of identification issued by the Commonwealth or the United States Government. HB 647 (Cruz) would designate a photo ID issued by the county board of elections as the only acceptable form of identification for voting purposes.

Many recently enacted voter ID laws have been subject to legal challenges, and states considering voter ID laws, anticipating challenges, have included safeguards to eliminate impediments to citizens’ constitutional right to vote.

Pennsylvania Voter ID Cost Estimate Free Voter ID Cards $ 1,945,944 Lost Revenue PennDOT $ 1,182,975 Public Education $ 4,200,000 Voter Notification (Households)+ $ 2,719,680 Photo ID Equipment $ 376,540 Election Day Staff* $ 576,840 Total $ 11,002,029 * Election day staff costs incurred by localities + Cost rises to $4.6 million for individual notification

The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld the constitutionality of voter ID laws, but left open the possibility of challenges by groups burdened by the requirement. Based on a review of recent court cases, the Brennan Center at NYU has identified three principles for state photo ID laws that can withstand legal challenges[1]:

• Photo IDs must be available free of charge for all who ask for them. States cannot limit access to free ID to the poor or indigent.
• Photo IDs must be readily accessible to all who ask for them without undue burden. States have increased the number of ID-issuing locations to meet this test.
• States must undertake substantial voter outreach and public education efforts to ensure that voters are apprised of the law’s requirements.

Meeting these tests can impose substantial financial burdens on cash-strapped states. Indiana, with about half as many registered voters as Pennsylvania, adopted a voter ID law in 2005 and spent $12.2 million over four years implementing it[2]. Missouri has estimated voter ID legislation would cost $17.4 million over three years to inform its 4.1 million registered voters of the new requirements[3]. Independent estimates for a proposed North Carolina law range from $18 million to $25 million over three years[4].

http://pennbpc.org/voter-mandates-costly-taxpayer

[GBCW 397]

Yeah since it's not a problem now, why worry about it in the future.

How does anyone even know it's not a problem now? Those big books full of scribbles we call signatures is our only record, at least here in NJ. There is practically no audit trail. What kind of people design (and DEFEND!) a system as IMPORTANT as elections without an audit trail? The mind boggles.

[Karee 4,190]

Only because I like you Karee. This is the first article that popped up on a search.

So it costs almost nothing. $260k a year for the ENTIRE state of South Carolina. So maybe a million a year in Texas. Pretty cheap to make sure people who are voting, SHOULD be voting.

[Teddy B 17,252]

This article seems pretty good as well.

http://www.ncsl.org/documents/legismgt/elect/Voter_ID_Costs_June2014.pdf

Edited October 23, 2014 by Teddy B

[Karee 4,190]

Here's more.

Lost Revenue PENN DOT $1,182,975? What does that mean?

[Teddy B 17,252]

So it costs almost nothing. $260k a year for the ENTIRE state of South Carolina. So maybe a million a year in Texas. Pretty cheap to make sure people who are voting, SHOULD be voting.

Where did you see that?

[Karee 4,190]

This article seems pretty good as well.

http://www.ncsl.org/documents/legismgt/elect/Voter_ID_Costs_June2014.pdf

From your link:

Decisions about whether to enact voter ID laws

are typically made by state lawmakers. And yet,

the actual administration of elections occurs pri-

marily at the local level. Costs are borne at the

local level as well.

Some local election officials believe additional

administration costs can be absorbed into existing

budgets. But others think they will add costs at

the local level. Some states, such as Missouri,

require state lawmakers to provide funding for

new local mandates

. Legislators in other states

may want to think about whether and how to

share voter ID expenses between state and local

governments.

So it's not even clear whether or not it will cost any additional money. If that's the case, it's not only a good idea to require ID to vote, it's a GREAT idea.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Karee

[Teddy B 17,252]

From your link:

Decisions about whether to enact voter ID laws

are typically made by state lawmakers. And yet,

the actual administration of elections occurs pri-

marily at the local level. Costs are borne at the

local level as well.

Some local election officials believe additional

administration costs can be absorbed into existing

budgets. But others think they will add costs at

the local level. Some states, such as Missouri,

require state lawmakers to provide funding for

new local mandates

. Legislators in other states

may want to think about whether and how to

share voter ID expenses between state and local

governments.

So?

And the low end estimate for South Carolina by proponents of voter id is not just 260K a year, it will cost a minimum of 1.3 million to implement it, the approx. 260K per year after. I seriously doubt those numbers as they are much lower than any of the other states. in that article.

Litigation can be very expensive as well.

LITIGATION:

More than half of the voter ID

laws that have been enacted have faced legal scru-

tiny. Given this litigation rate, states that enact ID

laws should be prepared to defend them in court.

Legal fees for defending an ID law can be expen-

sive especially if a case goes through multiple

rounds of appeals, as many ID cases have. For

instance, South Carolina’s voter ID lawsuit

was expected to cost the state approximately $1 million but

ended up costing more than $3.5 million

(though the federal government was ordered to

cover part of the cost). A recent estimate placed

Wisconsin’s cost for its voter ID lawsuits at more

than $1 million

.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Teddy B