Our relationship started while she was technically married

[Romet 28]

Thanks everybody that you finally started to know what I mean exactly by asking these questions. I should have told my story at the beginning to let you know enough about my relationship to answer my questions although I see it's kinda personal and my questions are clear enough with everything negative you might assume is wrong.

OP, just to clarify: you are an American male, and she is an Egyptian female, right? Also, are you engaged or just dating currently? You have referred to her as your girlfriend and your fiancée. And also, you have not yet submitted any paperwork for the visa yet, have you? Let us know the answers to these questions so we can better guide you. In the meantime, make sure you've filed your taxes and have reviewed the sponsorship financial requirements while you still have time to kill.

No I'm an Egyptian and she is American. We are engaged but still nothing formal. We haven't filed the K1 visa petition yet but we're going to do it next week.

The question still remains: Has the k-1 visa petition been filed? If it hasn't all of this changes considerably, it's just a matter of telling the story and explaining everything. If it HAS been FILED, without the free-to-marry documentation, it will be denied. As simple as that.

What document that proves I'm free to marry ? in the required documents list, they only ask the foreigner fiance for his passport - birth certificate and translation - affidavit for my intent to marry and 2 photographs. Am I missing anything?

Some states require a waiting period as well, after your divorce and before you can remarry. I believe there was someone here recently who filed a couple of weeks before the 6 months was up, and was denied as not free to marry. Look into what your state requires.

Yes that's true and she has asked the judge at the court about that and he told her that it's required to wait 6 months after filling for her divorce. It's been two years now.

[jxn 86]

Six months after filing the divorce or six months after the divorce was finalized?

[NY_BX 397]

Thanks everybody that you finally started to know what I mean exactly by asking these questions. I should have told my story at the beginning to let you know enough about my relationship to answer my questions although I see it's kinda personal and my questions are clear enough with everything negative you might assume is wrong.

No I'm an Egyptian and she is American. We are engaged but still nothing formal. We haven't filed the K1 visa petition yet but we're going to do it next week.

What document that proves I'm free to marry ? in the required documents list, they only ask the foreigner fiance for his passport - birth certificate and translation - affidavit for my intent to marry and 2 photographs. Am I missing anything?

Yes that's true and she has asked the judge at the court about that and he told her that it's required to wait 6 months after filling for her divorce. It's been two years now.

"My girlfriend and I have been together for almost 14 months but she just got divorced a week ago." Not filing, but when the divorce is finalized. Ask her to clarify that.

Check the guidelines http://www.visajourney.com/content/k1guide

Edited October 19, 2014 by NY_BX

[NY_BX 397]

Six months after filing the divorce or six months after the divorce was finalized?

After it is FINALIZED. You can't wait 6 months after filing because it may take longer to actually be divorced. Just like this particular case.

[Romet 28]

After it is FINALIZED. You can't wait 6 months after filing because it may take longer to actually be divorced. Just like this particular case.

I can't see anything about the waiting period on the page you posted

.

It differs from a state to another. It says here NO waiting period AFTER the final divorce

http://www.lawqa.com/free-legal-resources/divorce/remarriage-waiting-period-after-divorce

In California the waiting period starts on the date the other party was served with the legal papers required for your case, not from the date you filed. I was wrong too but anyway 2 years is more than enough for her to remarry.

http://www.losangeles-orangecountylawyer.com/Divorce/Remarrying-After-Divorce.shtml

http://www.cadivorce.com/california-divorce-guide/your-divorce-is-final-now-what/how-long-before-you-can-remarry/

[NY_BX 397]

I can't see anything about the waiting period on the page you posted

.

It differs from a state to another. It says here NO waiting period AFTER the final divorce

http://www.lawqa.com/free-legal-resources/divorce/remarriage-waiting-period-after-divorce

In California the waiting period starts on the date the other party was served with the legal papers required for your case, not from the date you filed. I was wrong too but anyway 2 years is more than enough for her to remarry.

http://www.losangeles-orangecountylawyer.com/Divorce/Remarrying-After-Divorce.shtml

http://www.cadivorce.com/california-divorce-guide/your-divorce-is-final-now-what/how-long-before-you-can-remarry/

Ok, your timeline is confusing. I thought her divorce was finalized a week ago and she lived in a state with a waiting period. The guidelines are for the paperwork for the k-1 visa petition. You also must show you are free-to-marry.

Having said that, you have a lot of evidence that overlaps her time being legally married- though separated. More importantly, it will definitely look suspicious if her divorce decree is dated, say, 2 weeks prior to her petition.

Good luck!

[Josie-Be-Happy 11]

It's not uncommon for married people to remain legally married but not together for different reasons. Stop judging and being hard on the OP. He's look for guidance not judgement.

Good luck OP. Proving that you're in a true relationship is what you need to do. Answer all questions honestly. Sounds like you have no problems to prove your relationship.

[Crossed_fingers 128]

I'm not sure why you would assume people are being hard on the OP when they are obviously trying to help him and give advice about what areas of his case require addressing. Just reassuring him there are no problems where there may be problems in the eyes of the Cairo consulate isn't doing him any favors.

[Smelserjl 137]

I think the OP is worried because 1) he's Egyptian and the US Embassy in Egypt is particularly scrutinizing and 2) because she's older and it looks like a red flag. Just be honest with all questions to the consular officer and you'll be fine. If you have the proof of relationship and all the legal ducks in a row concerning her divorce, you should be good to go. Don't focus so much on whether or not she was legally divorced when you met; like someone mentioned earlier, it's very common for people in the US to be separated legally and not seek legal divorce because of time and money.

[jxn 86]

I agree with Smelserjl, and it is indeed common for people to separate instead of divorce for various reasons, but when visas and immigration laws are brought into the equation, things may get complicated.

OP, did you say you got engaged to your fiancée before her recently-finalized divorce? Although you did mention it wasn't anything formal, it sounds like due to your concerns and the long nature of the divorce process, a formal engagement would be best done at a date after the divorce. I know an engagement has no legal significance, and the only thing you'll have to produce is the letter of intent to marry and proof that you two are able to marry, but a date of engagement occurring before the divorce was finalized may be held up to additional scrutiny despite it's relatively common occurrence.

[NY_BX 397]

For those saying the OP situation is not uncommon, or claiming some posters may be judging him, please keep in mind the OP is looking for 'visa' advice, not relationship counseling. Egypt is top 5 most fraudulents countries when it comes to fiance/ marriage visa petitions. MENA countries are notorious for AP and denials due to red flags.

This will sound very very harsh and my intention is not to offend, but to shed light bluntly: going by the miniscule information the OP provided, this already sounds like textbook fraud. I am not accusing anyone; I'm simply pretending I'm the Consulate/ interviewer. The consular will see the older lady- assuming she's outside of child bearing age (which is another big red flag), who already has 2 kids, got separated and who petitioned for her fiance shortly after her divorce is finalized. This is not the cultural norm in the OP's country. So the consular will scrutinize tremendously.

Other red flags:

Religious differences? If none, did the petitioner convert after the relationship started?

Educational level?

Did the petitioner meet the OP's family and friends?

Is the petitioner sending money? (in some countries a red flag is all the way around: is the OP is sending money to the petitioner? It mey be seen as a pay out for the 'favor.')

Has the OP been petitioned for before by someone else?

Language barriers? (Someone in Egypt recently got denied for this particular reason)

There are others. Feel free to list them....

[Romet 28]

Ok, your timeline is confusing. I thought her divorce was finalized a week ago and she lived in a state with a waiting period. The guidelines are for the paperwork for the k-1 visa petition. You also must show you are free-to-marry.

Having said that, you have a lot of evidence that overlaps her time being legally married- though separated. More importantly, it will definitely look suspicious if her divorce decree is dated, say, 2 weeks prior to her petition.

Good luck!

OK NY_BX, I can see k1 visa required documents on the page you posted earlier but which document from the beneficiary that proves I'm free to marry ?? They might ask later after NOA1 approval to get a police clearance and military cert...etc but not with the application!

Our relationship started 13 months before her final divorce and we can prove that easily. We have been holding on many things till she gets legally divorced so we can get married so why it looks suspicious?

I think the OP is worried because 1) he's Egyptian and the US Embassy in Egypt is particularly scrutinizing and 2) because she's older and it looks like a red flag. Just be honest with all questions to the consular officer and you'll be fine. If you have the proof of relationship and all the legal ducks in a row concerning her divorce, you should be good to go. Don't focus so much on whether or not she was legally divorced when you met; like someone mentioned earlier, it's very common for people in the US to be separated legally and not seek legal divorce because of time and money.

I agree with Smelserjl, and it is indeed common for people to separate instead of divorce for various reasons, but when visas and immigration laws are brought into the equation, things may get complicated.

OP, did you say you got engaged to your fiancée before her recently-finalized divorce? Although you did mention it wasn't anything formal, it sounds like due to your concerns and the long nature of the divorce process, a formal engagement would be best done at a date after the divorce. I know an engagement has no legal significance, and the only thing you'll have to produce is the letter of intent to marry and proof that you two are able to marry, but a date of engagement occurring before the divorce was finalized may be held up to additional scrutiny despite it's relatively common occurrence.

I think the problem is NOT how to prove when she was separated and when she filed her divorce in 2012 (we have a document for that) but the problem is the CO might looks at it in an Egyptian traditional way that's inappropriate to have a relationship with a woman that's still LEGALLY married. It happens here but it's uncommon.

We haven't done anything formal yet. I just asked her dad for his blessings last week and we hired a wedding planner to get married once we get there. She only said in her letter that we committed to each other before her final divorce and we started to plan for our life after she gets her divorce.

[Romet 28]

For those saying the OP situation is not uncommon, or claiming some posters may be judging him, please keep in mind the OP is looking for 'visa' advice, not relationship counseling. Egypt is top 5 most fraudulents countries when it comes to fiance/ marriage visa petitions. MENA countries are notorious for AP and denials due to red flags.

This will sound very very harsh and my intention is not to offend, but to shed light bluntly: going by the miniscule information the OP provided, this already sounds like textbook fraud. I am not accusing anyone; I'm simply pretending I'm the Consulate/ interviewer. The consular will see the older lady- assuming she's outside of child bearing age (which is another big red flag), who already has 2 kids, got separated and who petitioned for her fiance shortly after her divorce is finalized. This is not the cultural norm in the OP's country. So the consular will scrutinize tremendously.

Other red flags:

Religious differences? If none, did the petitioner convert after the relationship started?

Educational level?

Did the petitioner meet the OP's family and friends?

Is the petitioner sending money? (in some countries a red flag is all the way around: is the OP is sending money to the petitioner? It mey be seen as a pay out for the 'favor.')

Has the OP been petitioned for before by someone else?

Language barriers? (Someone in Egypt recently got denied for this particular reason)

There are others. Feel free to list them....

It's actually good that you listed all the red flags you might be thinking about as a CO instead of opening a thread for each one of them. I won't take it as a judgement but I'm curious why you (CO) see it as a textbook fraud.

- She's NOT outside child bearing age and we even discussed having kids is not gonna be an issue (what if I'm sterile I don't know yet) and the most important for us is her kids. we already got along very well and they can see me as their father and vice versa

- She's gonna file after about 2 or 3 weeks from her final divorce and that's because we want to be together as soon as possible..we are in a relationship and we love each other so much so why do you (CO) think we should wait! considering that we have been holding on for THAT divorce to be final. ( This is my main concern in this thread )

- Religious differences: Yes She's Christian and I'm a Muslim but we haven't done and won't do anything that contradicts with each other's religion. We're pretty much understanding in that matter. It's not the norm here too for Muslims to marry Christians but it happened with us!

- Education : She's an accounting manager and I'm an accountant so that's not a difference

- She hasn't met my family yet and I haven't told them about her still.. Because my family is an Egyptian traditional family there will be a difficulty to convince them too. But We have mutual friends who have seen us together before.

- No Money has been sent

- No I haven't petitioned before by anyone else

- Language barriers: No we're good

[NY_BX 397]

It's actually good that you listed all the red flags you might be thinking about as a CO instead of opening a thread for each one of them. I won't take it as a judgement but I'm curious why you (CO) see it as a textbook fraud.

- She's NOT outside child bearing age and we even discussed having kids is not gonna be an issue (what if I'm sterile I don't know yet) and the most important for us is her kids. we already got along very well and they can see me as their father and vice versa

- She's gonna file after about 2 or 3 weeks from her final divorce and that's because we want to be together as soon as possible..we are in a relationship and we love each other so much so why do you (CO) think we should wait! considering that we have been holding on for THAT divorce to be final. ( This is my main concern in this thread )

- Religious differences: Yes She's Christian and I'm a Muslim but we haven't done and won't do anything that contradicts with each other's religion. We're pretty much understanding in that matter. It's not the norm here too for Muslims to marry Christians but it happened with us!

- Education : She's an accounting manager and I'm an accountant so that's not a difference

- She hasn't met my family yet and I haven't told them about her still.. Because my family is an Egyptian traditional family there will be a difficulty to convince them too. But We have mutual friends who have seen us together before.

- No Money has been sent

- No I haven't petitioned before by anyone else

- Language barriers: No we're good

So, now the divorce isn't the issue. However, her not meeting your family is; exactly for the reason you stated. A CO may see this as a red flag and not taking her seriously. They will ask about that. Also, when was the last time you were with her? In other words, when was the last time she visited?

[Romet 28]

I know what my red flags are!!! I was asking specifically about the divorce issue! I bolded it in my last reply because it's my main point. Ignore anything else and focus on my main question if you really wanna help or can help!

I gave much more information more than I took from this thread and it seems a complete waste of time! My question is clear!

I'm done. Thanks all