American and Algerian

[jxn 86]

Her family is Muslim, but not her. Does that mean that she is Muslim legally on paper? Please explain this part.

If holding hands is forbidden, why did I see a lot of couples doing it, and even a gay couple?

I don't have a lot of specific knowledge of this but I've been to Algeria multiple times.

In many Arab countries, your religion isn't seen as a choice but it is essentially inherited. Think of it slightly somewhat like race in the U.S. You can hold whatever beliefs and culture you want, but it's essentially fixed. I know in some countries, like Indonesia, the religion is actually listed on the ID card.

In Algeria and other similar countries, women require the father's or husband's permission for certain things. First and foremost I would see if she is able to get a passport. Then research if she can leave the country with just the passport or if some sort of additional permission is required. It's difficult to comprehend but some places are like this.

Lastly, in Arab cultures it's not strange for straight male friends to hold hands. That might have been what you saw.

[usmsbow 801]

I appreciate all the feedback.

However, I DO understand the culture. What I don't understand is the legal system by which she will be interviewed and brought to America.

I have said twice now that she is not Muslim. Therefore, when will she be lying at the interview? Her family is Muslim, but not her. Does that mean that she is Muslim legally on paper? Please explain this part.

I met both of her sisters. The eldest brother knew I was there but made excuses for not wanting to see me. The youngest brother was in jail for hard drugs when I met her, but now that he is out he went back to his old ways and made sure to beat her a few times. I don't think he's protecting her at all. He only cares about himself and his so called honor.

If holding hands is forbidden, why did I see a lot of couples doing it, and even a gay couple? I know you have to be careful to never go beyond that.

We have been talking for three years. I know her better than most of my friends here. I guarantee it's not a scam, things are way too hard for this to be a scam.

I think that two of the brothers are OK with it, but they could never convince the youngest. I've already seen the two normal brothers via Skype, and they've seen me. I've talked to their wives and seen one of them. Their three year old kid knows me by name. I've sent them gifts. The mother has seen me, but I wasn't able to meet her due to her being paralyzed. I've talked to some aunts and cousins. Many of them say, "Inchallah you will be with him and be married." It's merely that one brother that no wants to tell!

I can understand asking about the family if we were going to live in Algeria, but why would they go so deep if she will leave the country? I thought Algeria was more modern than this, especially for an outside marriage that will have nothing to do with sharia law.

Thank you!

Jordan

Just 3 things:

1. I don't know about Algeria, but some countries (such as Indonesia) list a person's religion on his/her ID card. So yes, someone is legally a member of a religion in some places in the world.

2. As someone else noted, straight men hold hands all the time in Arab countries. They're not gay. Most men and women holding hands are married.

3. Algeria is legally secular (ie hasn't implemented sharia), but when it comes to marriage and family, culture and tradition often supersede that (unofficially).

Good luck. It will be quite a challenge for you no matter what.

[Faridanni 0]

My husband is from algeria. Him and I have been together for almost 3 years. After a year and half we made the decision of me going and my second visit we got married. Almost all tourist visas being the first time applying will be denied. (Jussayin) My husband applied for one and the same happened to him. The embassy needs reassurance they have strong ties with their country and family and will return when the visa expires. Things are much different here and there but my experience was amazing when I went, nobody gave dirty looks or rude in any way. Many times being in resturaunts we were given complimentary fruit dishes and deserts all because clearly I wasn't from there and was an American. We would go shopping and I had some store owners give me small gifts welcoming me there so I guess different parts u visit there are quite different. Nobody said anything to us when we would hold hands. We didn't do it often as in that culture and in that country u just don't do that in public even tho we did see some couples doing it. From reading ur story it's clear U will have a difficult road ahead of u seeing the brother/s don't approve and u are hiding your relationship. If he finds out which he will it could be very dangerous for your girlfriend/fiancé. Keep that in mind that not ALL Muslims that say they're Muslims are good. In real Muslim culture they're not supposed to harm or do any bad what so ever but they're many that are very protective and take it to extreme levels, sometimes can be fatal especially if they feel as if she has shamed the family in which they feel they must do the unspeakable because of pride. Just be very aware what can happen. If anything I would definately try to talk to the brother or have someone such as a family member try talking to him, breaking the ice so to speak. The longer this relationship continues without him knowing and he finds out will not be good for her seeing his abusive tendencies. Another thing, just because she doesn't claim to be Muslim doesn't necessarily mean she isn't (in their eyes)..... Does she wear hijab and walk around as if she is? I'm asking this because when and if she has her apointment and that gets brought up in any of the questions the embassy there will definately frown upon that especially if she says she's atheist. Algeria is Muslim country and she's treading thin waters saying that. They will ask many questions about your relationship such as , does your family know and accept, does her family know and accept, do u have any physical evidence of your relationship such as pictures, videos, phone records, emails, skype logs. Etc.. How many times have u seen her and spent time with her and the family and what proof do u have backing that up? How long have you two been together and how did u meet? When did u propose and how? What do u have in common and what is ur interests and hers? Will u be willing to take on the responsibility financial wise if she does come?How do u feel and your family feel about her being a Muslim (even tho she doesn't claim to be),..how does her family feel about your religion? Not saying that they will base their devision on what her family thinks but I'm quite sure they will ask u some of these questions and will ask why they don't approve. Just be very truthful about everything. There's many things they may ask that u both should prepare for. I would definately try to get out here more than just once before the process is over with, ..it will show that u both are serious and willing to go the lengths to be together. Not trying to scare u in any way but just trying to give u insight of what may happen. The more evidence showing that your relationship is Bona Fide the better. I wish u both the best of luck on ur journey!!!

[mayis.nove 0]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

It's a very informative post, plus from someone who knows Algeria.

She has never worn a hijab in her life, though her sisters do. She is more of a free minded thinker. She respects all religions, but doesn't really count herself to be a part of one.

Do you think that they will call the family? EVERYONE is OK with me, just not the one brother. Her family has done a good job at hiding it from him thus far. Her mother likes me as well, but she's in no position of power as she is paralyzed and elderly. The only thing I worry about is that one brother. Is it not possible that he will only find out once she is already accepted for the visa and gone? I have the pictures, emails, skype, etc.

We will both go over every question before the eventual interview. We have been together faithfully for three years. I met her in person finally after last week. (I had to graduate college and raise 5,000 dollars for the trip first.) Now we just want to be together as soon as possible, though I know that it's painfully slow. If it comes down to it and I do have to travel to Algeria again, I will. Though it's hardly the place to have any sort of romance and I was getting warning from the American embassy every step of the way.

Thank you all for your input. If any of you have anything else to say, whatever it is, please say it. I take everything into consideration. The only thing I won't do is walk away from this relationship. Hasn't the world heard of Romeo and Juliet...?

Edit: She does have her passport. Does anyone in any way think that an attorney would have the power to see through these specific problems?

Jordan

Edited October 5, 2014 by mayis.nove