Separated - Filing Divorce

[JayJayH 546]

We've separated, filing for divorce this month. My conditional GC expires in a little over 2 months.

We're on alright terms (depending on mood and day), but both wrote up and agreed to sign the attached agreement regarding our community property. Will this also suffice as an affidavit of sorts from my wife for the ROC?

(I do apologize for all the blacked out areas - I'm trying to remain as anonymous as I possibly can so bare with me)

[JayJayH 546]

(I'm keeping the black car, though it is registered in her name for credit reasons. The lienholder won't approve a transfer of equity - I can provide proof of joint insurance for it spanning the entirety of our marriage)

Edited October 2, 2014 by Yang-Ja

[TBoneTX 45,309]

Sorry to hear that you're going through this. Was wondering why your insightful posts had not appeared recently.

The agreement looks like a valid affirmation of what has been a bona fide marriage. I can't speculate on whether it rises to the level of an affidavit.

Might you type up a short and simple paragraph to the effect of "I, ex-to-be Wife, have been married to Yang-Ja since ____. I affirm that the marriage was bona fide" and present it to her for signing when mood and day permit?

Do you have other legal documents, such as wills, medical powers of attorney, and HIPAA releases? These are often overlooked as excellent evidence for ROC.

[JayJayH 546]

Sorry to hear that you're going through this. Was wondering why your insightful posts had not appeared recently.

The agreement looks like a valid affirmation of what has been a bona fide marriage. I can't speculate on whether it rises to the level of an affidavit.

Might you type up a short and simple paragraph to the effect of "I, ex-to-be Wife, have been married to Yang-Ja since ____. I affirm that the marriage was bona fide" and present it to her for signing when mood and day permit?

Do you have other legal documents, such as wills, medical powers of attorney, and HIPAA releases? These are often overlooked as excellent evidence for ROC.

Si man! Thanks, been off USCIS duty for over a year. Coming back for round two now with ROC.

I'll write up a very simple affidavit like the one you suggested as well, and await correct day/mood.

I know she listed me as beneficiary on her previous employer's life insurance policy. Also had a joint health plan with two different employers. She was listed as the beneficiary on my old job's life insurance policy as well. How do I go about getting documents showing myself as the beneficiary on her previous job's policy?

Her name is still listed as co-signer for my phone plan.

No wills, MPA or HIPAA.. We're in our 20s..

Another practical question. We filed married filing jointly at the beginning of 2014, but separated shortly thereafter. Ended up owing money, which we agreed was her responsibility (she requested not to have taxes withheld by employer). However, she still hasn't paid what we jointly owe.. Does this mean I can't get a 2013 transcript available yet? Have joint transcript from 2012, but I wasn't in the US at the time.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Yang-Ja

[TBoneTX 45,309]

She herself might have trouble getting such paperwork (or any) from her previous employer. If indeed the foregoing is true, I suggest that you write up another simple affidavit: "I affirm that Yang-Ja was listed as a beneficiary of my life insurance when I was employed at [company name]. For verification, please contact [phone number for old employer -- Human Resources Dept. or just the switchboard]." Adding the phone number puts the onus on USCIS to try to double-check.

I can't answer your income tax query; sorry.

Not a lecture, but a note for all who might be reading: Having a Will for each of you, plus the ancillary documents, is crucial at ANY age. Either of you could be hit by a truck tomorrow. The absolute cruelest, most heartless thing that any spouse could do is to die intestate (= without a will). The chickens will come home to roost for the survivors, either immediately or in future years. In addition, for ROC purposes, these documents are slam-dunk evidence of a bona fide relationship.

[JayJayH 546]

She herself might have trouble getting such paperwork (or any) from her previous employer. If indeed the foregoing is true, I suggest that you write up another simple affidavit: "I affirm that Yang-Ja was listed as a beneficiary of my life insurance when I was employed at [company name]. For verification, please contact [phone number for old employer -- Human Resources Dept. or just the switchboard]." Adding the phone number puts the onus on USCIS to try to double-check.

I can't answer your income tax query; sorry.

Not a lecture, but a note for all who might be reading: Having a Will for each of you, plus the ancillary documents, is crucial at ANY age. Either of you could be hit by a truck tomorrow. The absolute cruelest, most heartless thing that any spouse could do is to die intestate (= without a will). The chickens will come home to roost for the survivors, either immediately or in future years. In addition, for ROC purposes, these documents are slam-dunk evidence of a bona fide relationship.

Thanks, will go with the above advice and put onus on USCIS to call if I can't get anything.

As for the will - sound advice.

[Villanelle 4,122]

Re taxes

You can get transcripts for any tax year you filed. Does not matter if theres a balance due to the IRS.

Some people claim to 'not remember' what they owe from previous years or they need to double check figures or whatever. The IRS will gladly give you a copy.

But this agreement you have with your spouse about the back owed taxes being her responsibility and she hasnt made payment on it... Yikes. I hope you got something in writing from her regarding that.

You have to realize its a joint debt. Which means according to the IRS you BOTH owe it and they will take it from BOTH of you. Basically whomever they can get it from. So- if the next go around you file (separately) and YOU are due a refund and she owes- Guess what. No refund for you. The refund goes to the joint debt. If you are both entitled to refunds. Well then it becomes a game of who filed first. Her return requesting a refund hits first they will take the money and apply it to the debt and youll get yours. Yours hits first the other way around.

The IRS is not going to care if you made other arrangements with her about whos going to pay it. I only suggest getting something in writing so if they do take your money you can sue her in small claims court for it back.

So if you are anticipating any money back its imperative that she pays the debt prior to you filing for it. (you could also ensure you will get no refund and owe money by doing as she did and adjusting your withholdings. There still may be enough time left in the year to swing you from refund to owe.)

[tuckin14 58]

An affidavit from a spouse saying "This was a bona fide marriage" is not worth very much. Remember, USCIS is looking, more than any other thing, for people who get married even though they both know it's not a bona fide marriage.

I didn't try to decode the property settlement, but if I were USCIS I would be looking for something showing there was actual marital property, not just that somehow each one took away what they started with.

I also wouldn't be sending them letters saying "Ask Joe for more information." Why not get it yourself, if it exists? Looks pretty lazy to me. Not something that would win fans at USCIS.

[novedsac 355]

The IRS is not going to care if you made other arrangements with her about whos going to pay it. I only suggest getting something in writing so if they do take your money you can sue her in small claims court for it back.

Bingo!

Unless IRS is a party to the agreement, which is very likely not the case, they won't even look at it. It's between you and your soon-to-be ex-spouse.

IRS will recover taxes/penalties/interest owed from whomever offers the quickest path of least resistance.

[Villanelle 4,122]

Tuckin-

Every piece of evidence you send to USCIS in a ROC case is worth something. How much depends on the case. It could be a big something, a little something- a good something or a bad something. You have to look at the whole picture.

Looking at the property settlement and the info disclosed in this thread- they are two 20 somethings. They moved from HI to CA. They were on and off and then on again, now off. Doesnt really read like someone trying to set up a fraud marriage intentionally. An intentional fraud marriage wouldnt (likely) break up half way through. The agreement wouldve been clear from the start what was going to happen.

So an affidavit from wife would be in the helpful category. How much weight it would have would depend on how it was written and what other evidence is attached in the case.

---

regardless the property settlement does show both walking away with stuff. (and not just stuff they brought in). It does not look suspicious - like she was overly compensated. But there are some glaring holes in it. Im going to assume these two young people are attempting a do it yourself divorce (?) Or atleast they wrote this up themselves.

They outlined all the major assets- the cars, the ring, the bank account. But thats it. Highly unlikely a judge will approve as it. No mention of credit cards or joint debt and how that will be handled. No mention of whom is residing where and who has rights to what residence. No mention of little property- the toaster, the dishes etc.

That needs to be added. Ie- wife is residing at X location and all property currently there is hers and husband has no claim to it. Husband is X and the stuff there is his. If there is no joint debt then that needs to be stated. If there is (like the IRS! that needs to be outlined) It should not only show assets but liabilities. There also no mention of the ins for the husband car. Logically husband would be paying for it but no details are spelled out.

So again most likely this agreement is going to be cleaned up by a judge. But theres really no rush to send this page in. Its part of the divorce paperwork and until you have the final divorce decree nothings going to happen with the ROC. So personally I would not send it until its been finalized and amended.

Does it count as an affidavit? Sort of. It does swear the marriage was in good faith but didnt work out but its disguised in a property settlement. Generally speaking your divorce decree/paperwork will state the same things. If you want a strong affidavit, then get one written as a stand alone. Have it detail the relationship from courtship to break up. (we met, we fell in love, we tried but it just wasnt going to happen etc)

[JayJayH 546]

Tuckin-

Every piece of evidence you send to USCIS in a ROC case is worth something. How much depends on the case. It could be a big something, a little something- a good something or a bad something. You have to look at the whole picture.

Looking at the property settlement and the info disclosed in this thread- they are two 20 somethings. They moved from HI to CA. They were on and off and then on again, now off. Doesnt really read like someone trying to set up a fraud marriage intentionally. An intentional fraud marriage wouldnt (likely) break up half way through. The agreement wouldve been clear from the start what was going to happen.

So an affidavit from wife would be in the helpful category. How much weight it would have would depend on how it was written and what other evidence is attached in the case.

---

regardless the property settlement does show both walking away with stuff. (and not just stuff they brought in). It does not look suspicious - like she was overly compensated. But there are some glaring holes in it. Im going to assume these two young people are attempting a do it yourself divorce (?) Or atleast they wrote this up themselves.

They outlined all the major assets- the cars, the ring, the bank account. But thats it. Highly unlikely a judge will approve as it. No mention of credit cards or joint debt and how that will be handled. No mention of whom is residing where and who has rights to what residence. No mention of little property- the toaster, the dishes etc.

That needs to be added. Ie- wife is residing at X location and all property currently there is hers and husband has no claim to it. Husband is X and the stuff there is his. If there is no joint debt then that needs to be stated. If there is (like the IRS! that needs to be outlined) It should not only show assets but liabilities. There also no mention of the ins for the husband car. Logically husband would be paying for it but no details are spelled out.

So again most likely this agreement is going to be cleaned up by a judge. But theres really no rush to send this page in. Its part of the divorce paperwork and until you have the final divorce decree nothings going to happen with the ROC. So personally I would not send it until its been finalized and amended.

Does it count as an affidavit? Sort of. It does swear the marriage was in good faith but didnt work out but its disguised in a property settlement. Generally speaking your divorce decree/paperwork will state the same things. If you want a strong affidavit, then get one written as a stand alone. Have it detail the relationship from courtship to break up. (we met, we fell in love, we tried but it just wasnt going to happen etc)

Capri, your advice is both interesting and eye opening. And it makes perfect logical sense. Thank you.

We'll redo the property settlement.. Toaster.. Really? That's hers. I got the spice rack and canned food. I was particularly happy getting the Ikea wall art and Playstation 3. These are things to be listed on an agreement?

Would you advise turning this in with the divorce papers? Or do I turn it in later during the six month period that the papers sit in a black hole of unprocessed CA divorce filings?

As far as affidavits. I'm just about to hire an attorney on the ROC case. He called affidavits an icing in the cake, but not a part of the actual cake.

[Villanelle 4,122]

We'll redo the property settlement.. Toaster.. Really? That's hers. I got the spice rack and canned food. I was particularly happy getting the Ikea wall art and Playstation 3. These are things to be listed on an agreement?

Lol. Oh my no. No judge is going to sift through an item by item breakdown of low value items. You just have to acknowledge them. Ie all personal property and household goods and property at X residence belongs to wife, at X location is husbands. This prevents any messy misunderstandings and draws a fine clear line in the sand. So theres no coming back and saying well the Xbox is mine I just left it and now I want it, or Im not paying the IRS bill until you return my precolonial doll collection.

You can even word it in a way that will benefit your immigration paperwork- using a phrase like "household property acquired during our marriage"

Its totally up to you if you want to turn this is now with your initial 'I filed for divorce- please hold me until I get the decree paperwork' or if you want to wait. If you are hiring a ROC attny then see what they say as they would have all your evidence in front of them.