IDF builds fake Arab town

[sereia 0]

wow im glad to see im the topic of a discussion

im glad theres at least semi coherent dialogue here. but some comments i want to make

i am not usually comfortable posting here. im shocked that someone mentioned that israelis should join the european forum. israel is very much a part of the middle east. there is a strong middle eastern culture there. no, most israeli citizens are not arabs, but that does not make them european. its this complex that we have to deal with.

no im not israeli, my so is. but ive lived there. im not a scholar on it, but i know what ive experienced. im not going to argue with people who will never agree with me, and are not open to discussion. but i greatly appriciate that people are willing to stick up for me.

im not going to make an emotional "you all suck and im gonna cry" post. but thank you to those who are open to my thoughts, and are willing to argue. its a very loaded topic.

lol, and me a lefty? not quite. but thanks i guess

amen. I'm with wildroze22 where i feel uncomfortable posting my real opinions here other than "happy friday, what 80's heartthrob were you, and regular questions regarding the visa process" i don't know whether its you all or within myself that makes me feel uncomfortable to share my feelings.... but why argue with people who will never agree with me is right...........it seems silly to say but really, if we sit here and argue are you going to change your mind? hmmm don't think so. you are all deeply intwined in your husbands culture, religion, and beliefs. thats very apparent here. (and i do know many of you became muslim before meeting them.) its natural for women to take on their husbands interests and religion. afterall, they made it okay for a muslim man to marry a non-muslim woman and not the opposite. but anyway,.....

israelis are very much similar to arabs. their culture. food. decor. DNA. the same. many israelis were even BORN in morocco, iraq, iran, etc. we are cousins. the religion is even similar. its a shame all of thiis fighting happens between us.....

Edited January 26, 2007 by abdounjen

[jordanianprincess 0]

wow im glad to see im the topic of a discussion

im glad theres at least semi coherent dialogue here. but some comments i want to make

i am not usually comfortable posting here. im shocked that someone mentioned that israelis should join the european forum. israel is very much a part of the middle east. there is a strong middle eastern culture there. no, most israeli citizens are not arabs, but that does not make them european. its this complex that we have to deal with.

no im not israeli, my so is. but ive lived there. im not a scholar on it, but i know what ive experienced. im not going to argue with people who will never agree with me, and are not open to discussion. but i greatly appriciate that people are willing to stick up for me.

im not going to make an emotional "you all suck and im gonna cry" post. but thank you to those who are open to my thoughts, and are willing to argue. its a very loaded topic.

lol, and me a lefty? not quite. but thanks i guess

amen. I'm with wildroze22 where i feel uncomfortable posting my real opinions here other than "happy friday, what 80's heartthrob were you, and regular questions regarding the visa process" why argue with people who will never agree with me is right...........it seems silly to say but really, if we sit here and argue are you going to change your mind? hmmm don't think so. you are all deeply intwined in your husbands culture, religion, and beliefs. thats very apparent here. (and i do know many of you became muslim before meeting them.) its natural for women to take on their husbands interests and religion. afterall, they made it okay for a muslim man to marry a non-muslim woman and not the opposite. but anyway,.....

israelis are very much similar to arabs. their culture. food. decor. DNA. the same. many israelis were even BORN in morocco, iraq, iran, etc. we are cousins. the religion is even similar. its a shame all of thiis fighting happens between us.....

You are 100% right, there is no point in argueing. However there is nothing wrong with a friendly debate, people often learn alot that way.

[chri'stina 190]

I looked at some of the pictures thread, and how wildroze was jumped on for being upset at seeing negative politically charged pictures about Israel killing Palestinians, etc. After all the pretty pictures posted. It was not the time nor place. I was annoyed as well. And just imagine if she had posted pictures of dead Jewish people killed by Palestinians first...that would have gone over well... Yet when she is upset about the pictures that are posted, people jumped down her throat. I don't get it. It's a double standard.

For the record: I did not post ANY pictures of "Israelis killing Palestinians."

My bad...I know there weren't pictures of killing and I didn't realize I wrote that exactly, now I see it...sorry!

Just wanted to clarify something else, I never said wildroze was a conservative or didn't lean left. I just brought that up as another issue. I am a conservative and I post here, I am a Christian and I post here. But I have gotten thick internet skin over the years. In the past I would not have been so willing.

[jordanianprincess 0]

I looked at some of the pictures thread, and how wildroze was jumped on for being upset at seeing negative politically charged pictures about Israel killing Palestinians, etc. After all the pretty pictures posted. It was not the time nor place. I was annoyed as well. And just imagine if she had posted pictures of dead Jewish people killed by Palestinians first...that would have gone over well... Yet when she is upset about the pictures that are posted, people jumped down her throat. I don't get it. It's a double standard.

For the record: I did not post ANY pictures of "Israelis killing Palestinians."

My bad...I know there weren't pictures of killing and I didn't realize I wrote that exactly, now I see it...sorry!

Just wanted to clarify something else, I never said wildroze was a conservative or didn't lean left. I just brought that up as another issue. I am a conservative and I post here, I am a Christian and I post here. But I have gotten thick internet skin over the years. In the past I would not have been so willing.

I think everyone needs that to be on the net unfortunatly.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Szsz....Thanks...

but I don't really like conflict and do want to have peace with everyone possible.

I hope that comes across when I write my views. I may sound very opinionated at times, but I do like discussing things with people even if they disagree.

I don't know anything about the argument yesterday about the MENA mindset, etc.

I guess what I am trying to say is, that while I may debate sometimes, I do want to be on good standing with members here. I don't like to get down and dirty, and don't want to write off any people. I know I might make people defensive with certain things I say. But I do like the discussions, when they isn't mudslinging. I don't think there has been any mud in this thread.

That's all well and good, Stina, and I hope that happens for you, but it doesn't always work out so that we're all so nicy nice. I'm just letting you know because none of the "open-minded" regulars here told me when I was "out". I had to figure it out for myself. Yesterday, I received the confirmation. You'd be surprised at how many people feel the biases but are afraid to say anything.

wow im glad to see im the topic of a discussion

im glad theres at least semi coherent dialogue here. but some comments i want to make

i am not usually comfortable posting here. im shocked that someone mentioned that israelis should join the european forum. israel is very much a part of the middle east. there is a strong middle eastern culture there. no, most israeli citizens are not arabs, but that does not make them european. its this complex that we have to deal with.

no im not israeli, my so is. but ive lived there. im not a scholar on it, but i know what ive experienced. im not going to argue with people who will never agree with me, and are not open to discussion. but i greatly appriciate that people are willing to stick up for me.

im not going to make an emotional "you all suck and im gonna cry" post. but thank you to those who are open to my thoughts, and are willing to argue. its a very loaded topic.

lol, and me a lefty? not quite. but thanks i guess

You are welcome!

Edited January 26, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Boiler 45,510]

I am sure the situation is reversed, well it certainly has been.

The Egyptians had training facilities prior to the Seven Days War, I would be very surprised bearing in mind the significant military forces in the area that most Countries do not have similar facilities.

I can not believe that this is a new issue, certainly the British Army has trained for such eventualities for many yeras:

Copehill Down is a Ministry of Defence training facility located on Salisbury Plain, Wiltshire, England. It is a 'FIBUA' (Fighting In Built Up Areas) training centre where exercises and tests are conducted.

It is located at Ordance Survey grid reference SU 017 453

I am sure that most (all) other major Armies have similar training facilities.

As far as the Israeli's are concerned, well they would detail the environment to meet likely areas of combat, unlikely to be Igloos.

As far as where Israel should be on this site, I assumed in the Europe discussion area, that would be normal, never occurred to me that it would be in MENA.

Whether or not these training facilities exist is not the topic of this thread. We are discussing media reaction would the situation be reversed.

[peezey 0]

I am sure the situation is reversed, well it certainly has been.

The Egyptians had training facilities prior to the Seven Days War, I would be very surprised bearing in mind the significant military forces in the area that most Countries do not have similar facilities.

Ok, but in the media, how would it be portrayed? The thread is about the media & how the media would handle this.

Edited January 26, 2007 by peezey

[wildroze22 0]

i know you really want an answer, but ive think youve gotten it

it has happened. im sure that there are many recreations of israeli towns and places. otherwise the intifada would have not had as many "successes" as it did.

they exist. the media doesnt care. maybe it does sometimes, but on the whole there are MANY more things to be up in arms about

just an opinion

[peezey 0]

I have yet to get an answer. Where has it happened? I'd say it's not in the media because it hasn't happened. I do not believe for a second if Fatah had a grand opening of an fake Israeli town to be used for military operation practice the media wouldn't be all over it. Of course, this kind of construction wouldn't happen in Palestine because it would never be allowed in the first place.

[jordanianprincess 0]

I have yet to get an answer. Where has it happened? I'd say it's not in the media because it hasn't happened. I do not believe for a second if Fatah had a grand opening of an fake Israeli town to be used for military operation practice the media wouldn't be all over it. Of course, this kind of construction wouldn't happen in Palestine because it would never be allowed in the first place.

Probebly not in Palestine but most certainly in Iran and Syria. I think alot of it depends on what media outlets you get your news from. If it were on Arab media, it would be blown out of proportion. If it were on Jewish media, it would be blown out of proportion.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

I don't think Canadians get heated up like the rest of us over politics. Or at least they know how to take it in stride.

Only partly true--they vent out in full at election time.

That is why:

• Liberals (aka "Grits") in 1984 elections fell from 135/267 (15 vacant seats at that time) to 40/282
  
• Progressive-Conservatives aka "Tories" in 1993 fell from 151/291 (4 vacant) to 2/295
  

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

There are a lot of comments here that I'd like to address.

First of all:

As someone said earlier, if you know a country keeps talking about getting rid of your existence, who wouldn't build towns to practice war with those specific locations?

and

Of course people in the media here would be mad about it. The same way people get mad about Iranian leaders when they say they want to destroy Israel.

I assume you are referring to the statement that has been endlessly repeated in mainstream American media -- that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad supposedly stated that "Israel should be wiped off the map." (Please correct me if this is not what you are talking about, but it's the most obvious thing that comes to mind.)

This allegation has been printed and broadcast as "fact" over and over in the United States. But it's not what he said.

First of all, the “quote” in question was actually a quote itself -- Ahmadinejad was giving a speech, and in it he quoted what the Ayatollah Khomeini (who died 17 years ago) had said about Zionism.

Here is what Ahmadinejad actually said:

"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

In English:

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

Word by word:

Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) Qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

What should be most interesting to the most hardened skeptics is that even MEMRI (certainly no fans of Iran, or anything Muslim) translates the line almost exactly the same:

"This regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history."

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=arc...amp;ID=SP101305

Here is the full transcript of the speech in Farsi, archived on Ahmadinejad's web site:

http://www.president.ir/farsi/ahmadinejad/...04sahyonizm.htm

He never said anything about Israel the country, and never even mentioned the word "map." He said that Khomeini said that the government that is occupying Jerusalem needs to be removed.

One may certainly disagree with Ahmadinejad's reasoning, or his politics, or his haircut, or whatever one likes.

But calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map" is something he never said.

[Boiler 45,510]

I have yet to get an answer. Where has it happened? I'd say it's not in the media because it hasn't happened. I do not believe for a second if Fatah had a grand opening of an fake Israeli town to be used for military operation practice the media wouldn't be all over it. Of course, this kind of construction wouldn't happen in Palestine because it would never be allowed in the first place.

I guess it might make a tabloid story, but not the serious media. Would be akin to "Sun rises this morning"

Like I said, Egyptians did it years ago.

But one wonders how the casual observor would differentiate a town set up for FIBUA operations from being Israeli/Egyptian/Syrian/Iranian etc etc.

Signage in Hebrew?

[peezey 0]

I have yet to get an answer. Where has it happened? I'd say it's not in the media because it hasn't happened. I do not believe for a second if Fatah had a grand opening of an fake Israeli town to be used for military operation practice the media wouldn't be all over it. Of course, this kind of construction wouldn't happen in Palestine because it would never be allowed in the first place.

I guess it might make a tabloid story, but not the serious media. Would be akin to "Sun rises this morning"

Like I said, Egyptians did it years ago.

But one wonders how the casual observor would differentiate a town set up for FIBUA operations from being Israeli/Egyptian/Syrian/Iranian etc etc.

Signage in Hebrew?

Well, if you don't know the difference in the appearance of a Palestinian town and and Israeli town, you would make the comment you did, I suppose.

And I think it's ridiculous to pretend the MSM wouldn'tpick up a story like this should the tables turn, and make a huge deal of it. Case in point, the absolute bastardization of Ahmadinejad's speech as MK outlined.

[wildroze22 0]

But one wonders how the casual observor would differentiate a town set up for FIBUA operations from being Israeli/Egyptian/Syrian/Iranian etc etc.

Signage in Hebrew?

Well, if you don't know the difference in the appearance of a Palestinian town and and Israeli town, you would make the comment you did, I suppose.

And I think it's ridiculous to pretend the MSM wouldn'tpick up a story like this should the tables turn, and make a huge deal of it. Case in point, the absolute bastardization of Ahmadinejad's speech as MK outlined.

Edited January 27, 2007 by wildroze22