Rift widens between Obama, U.S. military over strategy to fight Islamic State.

[Karee 4,190]

there's nothing to be done. bombing breeds more isis. boots on the ground breeds more isis. if not isis, then whatever group forms out of this particular 'attempt'.

So at what point should we try and limit this head chopping campaign they are on?

I draw distinction between people asking for help from the U.S. and the U.S. unilaterally deciding that people need to be helped, regardless if they asked for it or not. It seems everyone is in agreement that this particular bunch (ISIS) needs to be eliminated as much as possible. It seems that's what the people in Iraq want as well. It seems the ONLY people that don't want this are ISIS themselves. So I don't really see how moving towards a goal that everyone seems to agree on, would breed more ISIS. Sure there will be the fring nuts that will use it as an excuse to sign up, but as you can see those fringe nuts are signing up already, regardless of any action by the U.S.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

there's nothing to be done. bombing breeds more isis. boots on the ground breeds more isis. if not isis, then whatever group forms out of this particular 'attempt'.

#truth

[rlogan 2,036]

Karee

Usually you are pretty aware and don't fall so much for the political spin put on things. In this case it is critical to understand that the disaffected Sunni, who we completely disenfranchised when taking over Iraq, are aligned with ISIS. This is a Sunni uprising.

Bombing them, especially on behalf of the Shia government that they are rising up against, is going to solidify ISIS - Sunni cooperation. "Iraq" did not ask us for help with this. Our corrupt stooge government of the Green Zone didn't even ask us. There isn't even a defense minister to ask. Their government is completely dysfunctional.

Tragically, this has nothing to do with the people of Iraq and is strictly about perception management by the government. A story line about a mysterious group of crazies suddenly appearing for no reason is a lot better than the truth about the effects of our purging Sunnis completely out of government, military, the civil service, oil revenues, etc.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So at what point should we try and limit this head chopping campaign they are on?

I draw distinction between people asking for help from the U.S. and the U.S. unilaterally deciding that people need to be helped, regardless if they asked for it or not. It seems everyone is in agreement that this particular bunch (ISIS) needs to be eliminated as much as possible. It seems that's what the people in Iraq want as well. It seems the ONLY people that don't want this are ISIS themselves. So I don't really see how moving towards a goal that everyone seems to agree on, would breed more ISIS. Sure there will be the fring nuts that will use it as an excuse to sign up, but as you can see those fringe nuts are signing up already, regardless of any action by the U.S.

They won't bomb them because of the beheadings. It's (still) about geopolitics and oil.

[JohnR! 5,495]

The air campaign already started with a few sorties, courtesy of the French...

They won't bomb them because of the beheadings. It's (still) about geopolitics and oil.

[decocker 7,198]

So at what point should we try and limit this head chopping campaign they are on?

I draw distinction between people asking for help from the U.S. and the U.S. unilaterally deciding that people need to be helped, regardless if they asked for it or not. It seems everyone is in agreement that this particular bunch (ISIS) needs to be eliminated as much as possible. It seems that's what the people in Iraq want as well. It seems the ONLY people that don't want this are ISIS themselves. So I don't really see how moving towards a goal that everyone seems to agree on, would breed more ISIS. Sure there will be the fring nuts that will use it as an excuse to sign up, but as you can see those fringe nuts are signing up already, regardless of any action by the U.S.

i'm saying, leave it alone. at what point do we realize we've helped enough. there's nothing isis is doing that is outside the normal range of 21st century violence. perpetual war. that's it. that's all it is.

[Karee 4,190]

Karee

Usually you are pretty aware and don't fall so much for the political spin put on things. In this case it is critical to understand that the disaffected Sunni, who we completely disenfranchised when taking over Iraq, are aligned with ISIS. This is a Sunni uprising.

Bombing them, especially on behalf of the Shia government that they are rising up against, is going to solidify ISIS - Sunni cooperation. "Iraq" did not ask us for help with this. Our corrupt stooge government of the Green Zone didn't even ask us. There isn't even a defense minister to ask. Their government is completely dysfunctional.

Tragically, this has nothing to do with the people of Iraq and is strictly about perception management by the government. A story line about a mysterious group of crazies suddenly appearing for no reason is a lot better than the truth about the effects of our purging Sunnis completely out of government, military, the civil service, oil revenues, etc.

I guess I don't really care who runs things in Iraq, Sunni or Shia. They'll both probably oppress the other depending on who is running things. However, this particular group seems to be crossing a line IMO with the massive killing and raping of civilians.

They won't bomb them because of the beheadings. It's (still) about geopolitics and oil.

Good point. Obama is as much in the back pocket of big oil as Bush was.

[decocker 7,198]

I guess I don't really care who runs things in Iraq, Sunni or Shia. They'll both probably oppress the other depending on who is running things. However, this particular group seems to be crossing a line IMO with the massive killing and raping of civilians.

Good point. Obama is as much in the back pocket of big oil as Bush was.

just because it would be simpler to approach the issue as if the only variable that matters is isis, that just isn't the case.

come on. obama? america is in the back pocket of big oil.

[rlogan 2,036]

I guess I don't really care who runs things in Iraq, Sunni or Shia. They'll both probably oppress the other depending on who is running things. However, this particular group seems to be crossing a line IMO with the massive killing and raping of civilians.

Good point. Obama is as much in the back pocket of big oil as Bush was.

You say that you don't care, but then show yourself so easily manipulated to care very much. All they have to do is hype up a couple of beheadings and you are now on the side of the people running a government with death and torture squads. Countless people found dead with electric drill holes in their knees and other horrific tortures. If the media shows you that instead, then ISIS is your freedom fighter.

And don't think I am saying you are different. Most of the country is this easily manipulated.