Black Man Claims ‘Racist’ Treatment by Police, Cop’s Body Cam Shows He’s a Liar

[Karee 4,190]

Racist legislation that kept black Americans back (i.e. that made it difficult or impossible to get decently paid jobs, to get into decent schools, to acquire wealth and property) may have been repealed, but how do you move on from that?

Stop living in the past. That's a start.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Stop living in the past. That's a start.

Any good psychiatrist will tell you that a person's present is defined by their past.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I find myself getting to that point, especially after the hysterical responses to the Michael Brown shooting. Even if it does come out that the cop was completely wrong and race played a roll in that shooting, it's been completely minimized by the reactions of the people in that community and nation wide.

[Karee 4,190]

Any good psychiatrist will tell you that a person's present is defined by their past.

Exactly!! Not by their parent's past or their grandparents past. BY THEIR PAST.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Exactly!! Not by their parent's past or their grandparents past. BY THEIR PAST.

Sure, and if their grandparents were dysfunctional and their parents were also, it's a fair bet that the present generation will be also.

[Karee 4,190]

Sure, and if their grandparents were dysfunctional and their parents were also, it's a fair bet that the present generation will be also.

Ok so then it's cool for people to blame their current lot in life on things that happened 1000 years ago? When does it end?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm talking about cause and effect - not blame.

We know, for instance, that poverty puts massive stress on family life and can be tied directly to families breaking up, alcoholism, mental illness, violent abuse in the home - to name but a few things.

These are daily realities for a lot of people. However, when the pattern was started by repressive government policies - and these things happened within living memory - you should be able to understand why there's so much anger. I understand it.

That, of course doesn't take away from the fact that individuals have to be responsible for themselves in whatever way that they can.

[Teddy B 17,252]

I think what needs to be talked about is why a lot of people still feel that American society is stacked against them.

Personally I think it's quite understandable why many black Americans are angry at the world and feel this sense of being left behind. Because they have been left behind. Racist legislation that kept black Americans back (i.e. that made it difficult or impossible to get decently paid jobs, to get into decent schools, to acquire wealth and property) may have been repealed, but how do you move on from that?

This would be true 100 years ago, not so much today.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'm talking about cause and effect - not blame.

We know, for instance, that poverty puts massive stress on family life and can be tied directly to families breaking up, alcoholism, mental illness, violent abuse in the home - to name but a few things.

These are daily realities for a lot of people. However, when the pattern was started by repressive government policies - and these things happened within living memory - you should be able to understand why there's so much anger. I understand it.

That, of course doesn't take away from the fact that individuals have to be responsible for themselves in whatever way that they can.

Thing is, it's not just black people that deal with this reality. Go to Appalachia - Eastern KY, Eastern TN and WV - and you'll find plenty of white folk trapped in that very same predicament. It's not the color of the skin that is responsible, not some victim mentality of the black people. If it was, how do you explain the persistent white poverty in Appalachia?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This would be true 100 years ago, not so much today.

That's not true though is it - social mobility for black Americans didn't happen until about 1965. That well within living memory.

If you don't think it's true today you can look at demographic statistics. As a black person you are:

• Less likely to graduate from high-school.
• More likely to die before the average age of life-expectancy.
• More likely to experience poverty.
• More likely to come from a broken home.

A person doesn't experience these things because they are black, rather it's the experience of being black in the USA that makes these things more likely.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Thing is, it's not just black people that deal with this reality. Go to Appalachia - Eastern KY, Eastern TN and WV - and you'll find plenty of white folk trapped in that very same predicament. It's not the color of the skin that is responsible, not some victim mentality of the black people. If it was, how do you explain the persistent white poverty in Appalachia?

Well absolutely I agree. When we talk about race in the USA - it's really short-hand for social class.

We could discuss Native Americans as well, who are, I believe, statistically the most likely to be alcoholics and also the most likely candidates for suicide. How is that explained?

I think many Americans have a silo mentality about this sort of thing - being simply unable (and unwilling) to understand the experience of any group outside their direct frame of reference. It's easier to believe that someone is an alcoholic because they lack moral fibre than that maybe their upbringing has given them little hope for the future.

[Teddy B 17,252]

That's not true though is it - social mobility for black Americans didn't happen until about 1965. That well within living memory.

If you don't think it's true today you can look at demographic statistics. As a black person you are:

• Less likely to graduate from high-school.
• More likely to die before the average age of life-expectancy.
• More likely to experience poverty.
• More likely to come from a broken home.

A person doesn't experience these things because they are black, rather it's the experience of being black in the USA that makes these things more likely.

What is your comparison tool for these statements? Do you have links that show black people doing better in other countries than they do here? In what countries do black people thrive in their community? Where does the US fit in on that scale?

Edited September 17, 2014 by Teddy B

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What is your comparison tool for these statements? Do you have links that show black people doing better in other countries than they do here? In what countries do black people thrive in their community? Where does the US fit in on that scale?

Well offhand, it's from memory - this debate being rehashed on here many, many, many, many times.

But no, these issues are not unique. There are similar problems in the UK and France too.

The USA, of course, has the added bonus of having local governments directly endorsing racist policies up until the middle 60s. That gives it an added context IMO that is still relevant today.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Hail Ming!

[Teddy B 17,252]

Well offhand, it's from memory - this debate being rehashed on here many, many, many, many times.

But no, these issues are not unique. There are similar problems in the UK and France too.

The USA, of course, has the added bonus of having local governments directly endorsing racism up until the middle 60s.

My problem isn't with admitting their is racism in the US nor that it has played a major role in the plight of the black man, my problem lies with people continuing to use that crutch and playing the race card for every woe that the any black person suffers.

These statements may all be true in the US,

If you don't think it's true today you can look at demographic statistics. As a black person you are:

• Less likely to graduate from high-school.
• More likely to die before the average age of life-expectancy.
• More likely to experience poverty.
• More likely to come from a broken home.

A person doesn't experience these things because they are black, rather it's the experience of being black in the USA that makes these things more likely.

But I want to see where in the world the opposite exists. When you continuously blame racism in the US for keeping the black man down, I would expect someone to show me a country where the black race thrives. I've googled it several ways but there doesn't seem to be one. So now the question must be asked as to why?

Edited September 17, 2014 by Teddy B

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think that institutional racism in the US has created a class divide that is reflected racially - that's not a controversial viewpoint. But yes - it IS a crutch for some people. For others, it's like trying to play chess game with half the pieces missing against someone with a full set who can't understand why their opponent continues to lose.

I think it's unreasonable to expect a group of people who have been denied access to money, education and resources for 200+ years to suddenly catch up with anyone else in less than 50.