Bush/Cheney Created Conditions That Led Directly to ISIL

[Teddy B 17,252]

nay!

[shot by a crossbow] becomes the daily teaser headline in the Police Blotter reports...

You know what that means D, ban crossbows!!

[Darnell 8,478]

nuh uh. ain't gonna happen. no way, no how.

fwiw, i'm taking 3 to a wild boar hunt this weekend, gonna be fun shooting at the pigs !

[Teddy B 17,252]

nuh uh. ain't gonna happen. no way, no how.

fwiw, i'm taking 3 to a wild boar hunt this weekend, gonna be fun shooting at the pigs !

Boar is good eatin, save me some meat please.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Without cars, drive by shootings would be greatly reduced.

There are always bikes. But there would certainly be no drive-by shooting without guns.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Mr. Big Dog

[rlogan 2,036]

If you are right, then there is no point..America is cursed and is destined to the path the Romans took, unless our blood lust is slaked and we have returned to some sort of non monster status.

Not sure if I agree with you on the point of the Milgram experiment. ( don't think it undermines your point, it is just not relevant to your point) The question by the authors of the study was this: Could normal individuals be compelled to horrific acts by being taught to obey instructions to harm others, The conclusion :

People tend to obey orders from other people if they recognize their authority as morally right and / or legally based. This response to legitimate authority is learned in a variety of situations, for example in the family, school and workplace.

This to me is an extrinsic force ( the authority telling you that harming others is good and right) as opposed to an intrinsic drive to harm others "Americans were only too happy, filled with blood lust, to destroy Iraq"

I don't think that you could find many Americans who wanted to destroy Iraq or Iraqis. If you most hardened jingoist lets-go-get-them before-they-get-us and introduced them to an Iraqi family, they would be the first to fold.

We were told that we were liberators and we ( see Milgram) believed the line we were fed. We could examine our collective lack of critical thinking, our fear of existential threat from WMD, al Queda, Bogey-Man du Jour.

Unrelated to discussion Footnote: The Hawthorne effect tells us what we watch we change: Evidently the experiment went really wrong for us years later http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-d-moreno/harvards-experiment-on-th_b_1545919.html .... and gave us no less a product than the UniBomber

rubbish. The Milgram experiment was in response to the war crimes trials where people in concentration camps and so forth said they were just following orders. To see what proportion of the population at large will do such horrific things. The answer is that so long as anyone even remotely viewable as an authority - not a legal authority over them like an elected politician or policeman, but just some professor - they will kill. 65% of them. And they pulled the switch themselves.

That isn't because we are such loving, peaceful creatures that are powerless in the face of a PROFESSOR telling us to kill. A professor has no authority to tell you to kill. This is a homicide, for which you will be rightfully convicted and imprisoned. You are dead wrong about pleading "external force" made you do it when the law will laugh in your face, holding you personally accountable. We did not accept "Hitler told me to do it" as a defense at Nuremburg either. You are peddling the same excuse.

So it isn't any wonder that when the president of the US says we need to start killing on the other side of the planet that not only will people refuse to question it - but they will also attack anyone else who is in opposition to it. I was called every dirty, nasty term in the book - terrorist sympathizer, stupid, cowardly, isolationist, etc. for being against this.

And now the people doing it come back after how wrong they were and say "we were mislead". No you weren't. You were only too happy to puff out the chest and kick some self-righteous a$$, and instead of looking into it spending your time attacking people who actually did.

Now, after the incontrovertible damage, death - do we hear about reparitions for the Iraqis you claim Americans care about? No, it is another war. Americans couldn't care less about Iraqis.

Edited September 16, 2014 by rlogan

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You do realise that there was sizeable public opposition to the war in the Iraq?

A million people marched in London alone...

[Rob L 3,811]

You do realise that there was sizeable public opposition to the war in the Iraq?

A million people marched in London alone...

Are you suggesting that we move from knee jerk name calling to rational facts presented without malice?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Are you suggesting that we move from knee jerk name calling to rational facts presented without malice?

Not here, we don't.

[Rob L 3,811]

rubbish. The Milgram experiment was in response to the war crimes trials where people in concentration camps and so forth said they were just following orders. To see what proportion of the population at large will do such horrific things. The answer is that so long as anyone even remotely viewable as an authority - not a legal authority over them like an elected politician or policeman, but just some professor - they will kill. 65% of them. And they pulled the switch themselves.

That isn't because we are such loving, peaceful creatures that are powerless in the face of a PROFESSOR telling us to kill. A professor has no authority to tell you to kill. This is a homicide, for which you will be rightfully convicted and imprisoned. You are dead wrong about pleading "external force" made you do it when the law will laugh in your face, holding you personally accountable. We did not accept "Hitler told me to do it" as a defense at Nuremburg either. You are peddling the same excuse.

So it isn't any wonder that when the president of the US says we need to start killing on the other side of the planet that not only will people refuse to question it - but they will also attack anyone else who is in opposition to it. I was called every dirty, nasty term in the book - terrorist sympathizer, stupid, cowardly, isolationist, etc. for being against this.

And now the people doing it come back after how wrong they were and say "we were mislead". No you weren't. You were only too happy to puff out the chest and kick some self-righteous a$$, and instead of looking into it spending your time attacking people who actually did.

Now, after the incontrovertible damage, death - do we hear about reparitions for the Iraqis you claim Americans care about? No, it is another war. Americans couldn't care less about Iraqis.

How ever poorly I have presented my argument, you are not putting me in the same camp as a war criminal are you?

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

[Darnell 8,478]

You do realise that there was sizeable public opposition to the war in the Iraq?

A million people marched in London alone...

that's London. TonyB responded how, again?

was any bare-breasted protests, whatever the number/count > 2 ?

Are you suggesting that we move from knee jerk name calling to rational facts presented without malice?

No - if'n you not include the malice, we disregard the facts. Always.